Christian Forums

blaspheming the word of God is teaching the truth or God's word wrong intentionally.

Quote from: howard on Fri Jul 20, 2012 - 13:38:45

is Jesus God?

Are you asking me about the Son's nature/essence, or His title.. or are you asking if I believe Jesus is the one and only true God? I'd say yes, to the first two... no, to the third.

Quote from: howard on Fri Jul 20, 2012 - 14:01:28

Quote from: Bitter Sweet on Fri Jul 20, 2012 - 13:55:32

Quote from: howard on Fri Jul 20, 2012 - 13:26:46

lets read because we have millions of christians who don't understand that there are more than one HS is the bible 

Thanks because I was wondering this also. The spirit of truth lives in us, us is multiple. Is the spirit of truth the same as the HS? This verse makes the spirit of truth null to the world, therefore there wouldn't be a worldwide teaching of the trinity because that would contradict the spirit of truth making him acceptable.

John 14:17 the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you.

Hi Sis

if we can get the people to just think about what is written

if God the HS is in us would we sin? No, we are holy
if God HS is in us would we need to read and quote the bible? No, it is written in our hearts

we all would be on the same page whatever Christians denomination we belong to
God the HS would be in all of us and we would be saying the same same words to each other. We are not the ones that caused the divisions or encourage them.

that is why I put the job function of the HS

I put my answers in maroon.

Philippians 2:5-7
5Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:

6Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

7But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:


see how this lines up with Psalm 55

Quote from: howard on Fri Jul 20, 2012 - 13:43:24
the Son Jesus has a God

Matthew 27:46
And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?

surely he was not calling himself

man has a God who becamse Jesus the Son of God

John 20:28
And Thomas answered and said unto him, My LORD and my God.

thomas was there he should know

Jesus is God
Jesus Father is God

care to add anymore?

Do you find your beliefs in line with Binitarianism?

Quote from: howard on Fri Jul 20, 2012 - 14:03:25
blaspheming the word of God is teaching the truth or God's word wrong intentionally.

There's a heap of people in trouble because of all the different denominations.

Quote from: raggthyme7 on Fri Jul 20, 2012 - 14:07:30

Quote from: howard on Fri Jul 20, 2012 - 13:38:45

is Jesus God?

Are you asking me about the Son's nature/essence, or His title.. or are you asking if I believe Jesus is the one and only true God? I'd say yes, to the first two... no, to the third.

is Jesus God?

not the nature, not the essence, or if he the only true God.

is Jesus God according the bible

 

Quote from: howard on Fri Jul 20, 2012 - 14:13:32

Quote from: raggthyme7 on Fri Jul 20, 2012 - 14:07:30

Quote from: howard on Fri Jul 20, 2012 - 13:38:45

is Jesus God?

Are you asking me about the Son's nature/essence, or His title.. or are you asking if I believe Jesus is the one and only true God? I'd say yes, to the first two... no, to the third.

is Jesus God?

not the nature, not the essence, or if he the only true God.

is Jesus God according the bible

Well Thomas calls Him Lord and God.. does that mean Thomas believes Jesus is His Father or that God is a trinity? I personally don't believe so.

Quote from: howard on Fri Jul 20, 2012 - 12:59:53
Genesis 1:26
And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

these is more than one God. the question is how many.

Deuteronomy 6:4
"Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one!

Quote from: howard on Fri Jul 20, 2012 - 13:14:11
someone made a comment about the HS and how we receive him

lets read what the bible says how man receive the HS

in order to receive or have the HS comforter or spirit of truth whatever you want to call him you must keep the commandments

   11Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.

12Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.

13And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.

14If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.

15If ye love me, keep my commandments.

16And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

17Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

18I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.

the commandments of God must be kept according to Jesus before anyone can receive the HS.

we read it above!!

Nonsense. We are already people who love Him and obey His commandments if we have received salvation! Once saved, we have the Holy Spirit indwelling, but there is far more of Him available to us! We must be in relationship with Jesus Christ in order that we receive the baptism of Holy Spirit---just ask Him for it.

Quote from: howard on Fri Jul 20, 2012 - 13:35:23
7Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.


maybe someone can explain why Jesus who is God and the HS who some say is God cannot be on the earth at the same time?

Perhaps the logic escapes you.

Jesus came as a man. He cannot be everywhere at the same time as long as He is in His body. He left us and sent His Spirit to do the works of Christ in the world, as He can be omnipresent.

Quote from: howardlets read because we have millions of christians who don't understand that there are more than one HS is the bible

That is a lie. There is only One Holy Spirit.

Quote from: raggthyme7 on Fri Jul 20, 2012 - 14:25:04

Quote from: howard on Fri Jul 20, 2012 - 14:13:32

Quote from: raggthyme7 on Fri Jul 20, 2012 - 14:07:30

Quote from: howard on Fri Jul 20, 2012 - 13:38:45

is Jesus God?

Are you asking me about the Son's nature/essence, or His title.. or are you asking if I believe Jesus is the one and only true God? I'd say yes, to the first two... no, to the third.

is Jesus God?

not the nature, not the essence, or if he the only true God.

is Jesus God according the bible

Well Thomas calls Him Lord and God.. does that mean Thomas believes Jesus is His Father or that God is a trinity? I personally don't believe so.

Thomas as one of Jesus' chosen twelve would have known and believed in God as a trinity! He believed in God the Father, knew and walked with Jesus as God the Son, and was introduced to God the Holy Spirit a few days after Jesus left.

Quote from: Lively Stone on Fri Jul 20, 2012 - 14:56:20

Thomas as one of Jesus' chosen twelve would have known and believed in God as a trinity! He believed in God the Father, knew and walked with Jesus as God the Son, and was introduced to God the Holy Spirit a few days after Jesus left.

"But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him."

"And this is eternal life, that they may know You the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent."



One true God, one Son of the true God, one Spirit of the true God.

According to trinitarianism (one God, three persons) the verse would read:

"But to us there is but one God, [Father, Son and Holy Spirit], of whom are all things, and we in him, and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

Which view of God makes more sense in this verse?

a. Father
b. Father, Son, Holy Spirit

Quote from: raggthyme7 on Fri Jul 20, 2012 - 15:06:21

Quote from: Lively Stone on Fri Jul 20, 2012 - 14:56:20

Thomas as one of Jesus' chosen twelve would have known and believed in God as a trinity! He believed in God the Father, knew and walked with Jesus as God the Son, and was introduced to God the Holy Spirit a few days after Jesus left.

"But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him."

"And this is eternal life, that they may know You the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent."



One true God, one Son of the true God, one Spirit of the true God.

According to trinitarianism (one God, three persons) the verse would read:

"But for us there is but one God, [Father, Son and Holy Spirit], of whom are all things, and we in him, and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

Which definition of God makes more sense in this verse?

a. Father
b. Father, Son, Holy Spirit

You wouldn't even believe the word without the work of God, the Holy Spirit in you. God is three manifestations, or Persons. I don't have to parse scripture to know He is Three in One. Holy Spirit is the Spirit of Christ.

Quote from: Lively Stone on Fri Jul 20, 2012 - 15:20:10

Quote from: raggthyme7 on Fri Jul 20, 2012 - 15:06:21

Quote from: Lively Stone on Fri Jul 20, 2012 - 14:56:20

Thomas as one of Jesus' chosen twelve would have known and believed in God as a trinity! He believed in God the Father, knew and walked with Jesus as God the Son, and was introduced to God the Holy Spirit a few days after Jesus left.

"But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him."

"And this is eternal life, that they may know You the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent."



One true God, one Son of the true God, one Spirit of the true God.

According to trinitarianism (one God, three persons) the verse would read:

"But for us there is but one God, [Father, Son and Holy Spirit], of whom are all things, and we in him, and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

Which view of God makes more sense in this verse?

a. Father
b. Father, Son, Holy Spirit

You wouldn't even believe the word without the work of God, the Holy Spirit in you. God is three manifestations, or Persons. I don't have to parse scripture to know He is Three in One. Holy Spirit is the Spirit of Christ.

You say the apostles believed the one God is a trinity- no, that's what you believe.

Paul says there is but one God: the Father.

Paul's one God is not comprised of three persons.

One true God, one Son of the true God, one Spirit of the true God.

This is biblical. The trinity doctrine is not.

Quote from: raggthyme7 on Fri Jul 20, 2012 - 15:28:34

Quote from: Lively Stone on Fri Jul 20, 2012 - 15:20:10

Quote from: raggthyme7 on Fri Jul 20, 2012 - 15:06:21

Quote from: Lively Stone on Fri Jul 20, 2012 - 14:56:20

Thomas as one of Jesus' chosen twelve would have known and believed in God as a trinity! He believed in God the Father, knew and walked with Jesus as God the Son, and was introduced to God the Holy Spirit a few days after Jesus left.

"But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him."

"And this is eternal life, that they may know You the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent."



One true God, one Son of the true God, one Spirit of the true God.

According to trinitarianism (one God, three persons) the verse would read:

"But for us there is but one God, [Father, Son and Holy Spirit], of whom are all things, and we in him, and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

Which view of God makes more sense in this verse?

a. Father
b. Father, Son, Holy Spirit

You wouldn't even believe the word without the work of God, the Holy Spirit in you. God is three manifestations, or Persons. I don't have to parse scripture to know He is Three in One. Holy Spirit is the Spirit of Christ.

You say the apostles believed the one God is a trinity- no, that's what you believe.

Paul says there is but one God: the Father.

Paul's one God is not comprised of three persons.

One true God, one Son of the true God, one Spirit of the true God.

This is biblical. The trinity doctrine is not.

Yes, Paul trusted the God as Father, the Son and Holy Spirit.

That is what He taught.

"But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him."

Paul says clearly that there is but one God: the Father.

Paul's one God is not comprised of three persons. (unless you believe the Father is three persons... this poses a serious problem if you believe in the trinity.)

One true God, one Son of the true God, one Spirit of the true God.

Again, this is biblical. The trinity doctrine is not.

Quote from: Johnb on Fri Jul 20, 2012 - 11:42:03
Bitter
since this is the non traditional board I will present my non traditional view of God.  I believe there is but one God.  He is all knowing all powerful and all present or able to be in all places at the same time.  If He can be in all places at the same time.  Therefore it is no problem for Him to present Himself in the form of the man Jesus and later as the Holy Spirit.  IMO Jesus (God) used the terms Father, Son and Holy Spirit to help humans relate and understand how He was working.  In short I see one God who has presented Himself to man in 3 personifications,  I also do not see this as a salvation issue except when folks try to make Jesus a created God who is not eternal.

I only understand the unforgivable from what the bible say's that if we blaspheme the HS. It says that we can say anything against the Son of Man. We have an advocate between us and God, Jesus when it comes to us sinning unwittingly.

Matthew 12:32 Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.

I have another question Johnb, do you think the HS and the spirit of truth are the same?

raggthyme7
I don't often use proof text but this one seems clear. Many other passage teach that the HS is not just the word.  It is important to know that we did not have the written word for many years after Acts and most of the NT was written.  But in Acts 2 they were told they would receive the gift of (not from) the HS.

38 Peter replied, "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 The promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off —for all whom the Lord our God will call."
You ask where my view of trinity was written.  I plainly stated it was my opinion.  The concept of God being eternal, all knowing all seeing and having the ability to be everywhere at the same time are all concepts that are clearly taught in scripture.

At Christ's baptism we have the voice of God, the physical man Jesus and the Holy Spirit descending like a dove.  That simply does not fit with your 2 theory.  I don't know that we will fully understand the concept of God this side of eternity.  However like I said I do not see acceptance of the traditional view of the trinity as a salvation issue.  The problem I see with you theory you keep saying that God is the only true God.  That by any normal logic makes Jesus not a true God and therefore without the ability to forgive sin and be our atonement.

Quote from: Lively Stone on Fri Jul 20, 2012 - 14:42:08

Perhaps the logic escapes you.

Jesus came as a man. He cannot be everywhere at the same time as long as He is in His body.

No He cannot, but if the Holy Spirit is a person distinct from the Son, as taught in trinitarianism, this is not a sufficient answer. The Holy Spirit as a distinct person should be able to be on earth even though Jesus was in a body of flesh.

1.Deuteronomy 17:15
Thou shalt in any wise set him king over thee, whom the LORD thy God shall choose: one from among thy brethren shalt thou set king over thee: thou mayest not set a stranger over thee, which is not thy brother.
Deuteronomy 17:14-16 (in Context) Deuteronomy 17 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations
2.Deuteronomy 20:14
But the women, and the little ones, and the cattle, and all that is in the city, even all the spoil thereof, shalt thou take unto thyself; and thou shalt eat the spoil of thine enemies, which the LORD thy God hath given thee.
Deuteronomy 20:13-15 (in Context) Deuteronomy 20 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations
3.Isaiah 43:3
For I am the LORD thy God, the Holy One of Israel, thy Saviour: I gave Egypt for thy ransom, Ethiopia and Seba for thee.
Isaiah 43:2-4 (in Context) Isaiah 43 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations
4.Isaiah 48:17
Thus saith the LORD, thy Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel; I am the LORD thy God which teacheth thee to profit, which leadeth thee by the way that thou shouldest go.
Isaiah 48:16-18 (in Context) Isaiah 48 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations
5.Isaiah 54:5
For thy Maker is thine husband; the LORD of hosts is his name; and thy Redeemer the Holy One of Israel; The God of the whole earth shall he be called.
Isaiah 54:4-6 (in Context) Isaiah 54 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations
6.Isaiah 55:5
Behold, thou shalt call a nation that thou knowest not, and nations that knew not thee shall run unto thee because of the LORD thy God, and for the Holy One of Israel; for he hath glorified thee.
Isaiah 55:4-6 (in Context) Isaiah 55 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations

Quote from: Johnb on Fri Jul 20, 2012 - 17:07:52
raggthyme7
I don't often use proof text but this one seems clear. Many other passage teach that the HS is not just the word.  It is important to know that we did not have the written word for many years after Acts and most of the NT was written.  But in Acts 2 they were told they would receive the gift of (not from) the HS.

38 Peter replied, "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 The promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off —for all whom the Lord our God will call."
You ask where my view of trinity was written.  I plainly stated it was my opinion.  The concept of God being eternal, all knowing all seeing and having the ability to be everywhere at the same time are all concepts that are clearly taught in scripture.

At Christ's baptism we have the voice of God, the physical man Jesus and the Holy Spirit descending like a dove.  That simply does not fit with your 2 theory.  I don't know that we will fully understand the concept of God this side of eternity.  However like I said I do not see acceptance of the traditional view of the trinity as a salvation issue.  The problem I see with you theory you keep saying that God is the only true God.  That by any normal logic makes Jesus not a true God and therefore without the ability to forgive sin and be our atonement.

Johnb,

First, I did not ask you where it was written, but I believe howard did.

I'm not the first to say the Father is the only true God.. Jesus says it (John 17:3) and Paul said it (1 Cor 8:6). Now we have at least two bearing witness to this truth.

Their testimony does not make Jesus a false god.. in contrast with the true. Rather, He is the [Begotten] Son of the true [Unbegotten] God! One God, one Son, one Spirit.

I'm not sure where you get the idea that I believe the Holy Spirit is the written word. Is that what you were saying? Maybe I misunderstood you. I did agree with John that the Spirit is truth. (1 John 5:6) Totally different concept. That's like saying the Bible is the word of God and Jesus is the Word of God so Jesus must be the Bible. Some may believe this but I do not.

I'm also not sure how you come to this conclusion that I don't believe the Father, His Son and His Holy Spirit were all present at Christ's baptism.. it's clear from Scripture all were present.. I just differ on definition of terms with trinitarians, unitarians, binitarians, arians etc.

I have no "theory of 2" as you say. That would be binitarianism and I've already mentioned that I'm not into that.

One question for you that I see you didn't get into... in modalism, wouldn't God be having an intimate relationship with Himself?

Quote from: Lively Stone on Fri Jul 20, 2012 - 14:42:08

Quote from: howard on Fri Jul 20, 2012 - 13:35:23
7Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.


maybe someone can explain why Jesus who is God and the HS who some say is God cannot be on the earth at the same time?

Perhaps the logic escapes you.

Jesus came as a man. He cannot be everywhere at the same time as long as He is in His body. He left us and sent His Spirit to do the works of Christ in the world, as He can be omnipresent.

Why can't the holy spirit be here while the Lord is on the earth?

Let's look at it again
Here is Jesus on the earth as Melchizadek

Genesis 14:18-20 (KJV)
And Melchizedek king of Salem brought forth bread and wine: and he was the priest of the most high God.

[19] And he blessed him, and said, Blessed be Abram of the most high God, possessor of heaven and earth:

[20] And blessed be the most high God, which hath delivered thine enemies into thy hand. And he gave him tithes of all.

The HS is not present

In the trinity where does Melchizadek fit?

He is God

Quote from: Lively Stone on Fri Jul 20, 2012 - 14:48:22

Quote from: howardlets read because we have millions of christians who don't understand that there are more than one HS is the bible

That is a lie. There is only One Holy Spirit.

Why are you calling God's word a lie?
You error not knowing God's word

It is written that the Lord makes his angels spirit

Pay attention now

Angels = spirits

Let's read where the angels are called holy

Mark 8:38 (KJV)
Whosoever therefore shall be ashamed of me and of my words in this adulterous and sinful generation; of him also shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he cometh in the glory of his Father with the holy angels.

Holy angels or holy spirits

On holy angel or one holy spirit

Hebrews 12:22 (KJV)
But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,

Who is the liar?

Quote from: raggthyme7 on Fri Jul 20, 2012 - 17:11:54

Quote from: Lively Stone on Fri Jul 20, 2012 - 14:42:08

Perhaps the logic escapes you.

Jesus came as a man. He cannot be everywhere at the same time as long as He is in His body.

No He cannot, but if the Holy Spirit is a person distinct from the Son, as taught in trinitarianism, this is not a sufficient answer. The Holy Spirit as a distinct person should be able to be on earth even though Jesus was in a body of flesh.

Jesus said that the HS cannot come unless he goes

The HS cannot be on earth while Jesus is on the earth

Jesus taught for 3.5 years

The HS job is teach

Who is the Master teacher?

Who has to take a back seat in the class room?
Let's get understanding

Quote from: Lively Stone on Fri Jul 20, 2012 - 14:56:20

Quote from: raggthyme7 on Fri Jul 20, 2012 - 14:25:04

Quote from: howard on Fri Jul 20, 2012 - 14:13:32

Quote from: raggthyme7 on Fri Jul 20, 2012 - 14:07:30

Quote from: howard on Fri Jul 20, 2012 - 13:38:45

is Jesus God?

Are you asking me about the Son's nature/essence, or His title.. or are you asking if I believe Jesus is the one and only true God? I'd say yes, to the first two... no, to the third.

is Jesus God?

not the nature, not the essence, or if he the only true God.

is Jesus God according the bible

Well Thomas calls Him Lord and God.. does that mean Thomas believes Jesus is His Father or that God is a trinity? I personally don't believe so.

Thomas as one of Jesus' chosen twelve would have known and believed in God as a trinity! He believed in God the Father, knew and walked with Jesus as God the Son, and was introduced to God the Holy Spirit a few days after Jesus left.

Fortunately you can't read that in the bible
But we can read and we did where he called Jesus God

Quote from: raggthyme7 on Fri Jul 20, 2012 - 15:06:21

Quote from: Lively Stone on Fri Jul 20, 2012 - 14:56:20

Thomas as one of Jesus' chosen twelve would have known and believed in God as a trinity! He believed in God the Father, knew and walked with Jesus as God the Son, and was introduced to God the Holy Spirit a few days after Jesus left.

"But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him."

"And this is eternal life, that they may know You the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent."



One true God, one Son of the true God, one Spirit of the true God.

According to trinitarianism (one God, three persons) the verse would read:

"But to us there is but one God, [Father, Son and Holy Spirit], of whom are all things, and we in him, and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

Which view of God makes more sense in this verse?

a. Father
b. Father, Son, Holy Spirit

1 Corinthians 8
Now as touching things offered unto idols, we know that we all have knowledge. Knowledge puffeth up, but charity edifieth.

[2] And if any man think that he knoweth any thing, he knoweth nothing yet as he ought to know.

7 Howbeit there is not in every man that knowledge: for some with conscience of the idol unto this hour eat it as a thing offered unto an idol; and their conscience being weak is defiled.

[9] But take heed lest by any means this liberty of yours become a stumblingblock to them that are weak.

raggthyme7
I was thinking of answering both you and Howard and was distracted by things going on in my house and mingled the 2.  Sorry that happens when you get old and deal with grand kids.

Quote from: Lively Stone on Fri Jul 20, 2012 - 15:43:35

Quote from: raggthyme7 on Fri Jul 20, 2012 - 15:28:34

Quote from: Lively Stone on Fri Jul 20, 2012 - 15:20:10

Quote from: raggthyme7 on Fri Jul 20, 2012 - 15:06:21

Quote from: Lively Stone on Fri Jul 20, 2012 - 14:56:20

Thomas as one of Jesus' chosen twelve would have known and believed in God as a trinity! He believed in God the Father, knew and walked with Jesus as God the Son, and was introduced to God the Holy Spirit a few days after Jesus left.

"But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him."

"And this is eternal life, that they may know You the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent."



One true God, one Son of the true God, one Spirit of the true God.

According to trinitarianism (one God, three persons) the verse would read:

"But for us there is but one God, [Father, Son and Holy Spirit], of whom are all things, and we in him, and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

Which view of God makes more sense in this verse?

a. Father
b. Father, Son, Holy Spirit

You wouldn't even believe the word without the work of God, the Holy Spirit in you. God is three manifestations, or Persons. I don't have to parse scripture to know He is Three in One. Holy Spirit is the Spirit of Christ.

You say the apostles believed the one God is a trinity- no, that's what you believe.

Paul says there is but one God: the Father.

Paul's one God is not comprised of three persons.

One true God, one Son of the true God, one Spirit of the true God.

This is biblical. The trinity doctrine is not.

Yes, Paul trusted the God as Father, the Son and Holy Spirit.

That is what He taught.

Paul taught Jesus

Acts 28:23 (KJV)
And when they had appointed him a day, there came many to him into his lodging; to whom he expounded and testified the kingdom of God, persuading them concerning Jesus, both out of the law of Moses, and out of the prophets, from morning till evening.


Acts 26:22 (KJV)
Having therefore obtained help of God, I continue unto this day, witnessing both to small and great, saying none other things than those which the prophets and Moses did say should come:


Acts 24:14 (KJV)
But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:

Paul said Jesus is God 
2Corinthians 1:19-21 (KJV)
For the Son of God, Jesus Christ, who was preached among you by us, even by me and Silvanus and Timotheus, was not yea and nay, but in him was yea. [20] For all the promises of God in him are yea, and in him Amen, unto the glory of God by us. [21] Now he which stablisheth us with you in Christ, and hath anointed us, is God;

Quote raggthyme7


I'm not the first to say the Father is the only true God.. Jesus says it (John 17:3) and Paul said it (1 Cor 8:6). Now we have at least two bearing witness to this truth

The problem that comes with using prooftext is much is lost in translation from one language to another.
The Greek word holoteles (as close as I can get without Greek letters) literally means "complete to the end ie absolutely perfect-wholly. "  Strong's Complete Dictionary    Not exactly the same thing as true but that was as close as you could get with English and stay concise.
Now as far as Paul's statement I have not denied that there is one God.

Now I have presented my views and why I hold them and you have done the same.  I don't feel a need to attempt to prove I am right and you are wrong.  Like I said I don't think we will know this side of eternity.  That is why my communication with Howard is limited it seems he must prove he is absolutely correct on a subject that IMO there is no absolute.
Later brother. 

Quote from: Johnb on Fri Jul 20, 2012 - 19:43:33



Quote raggthyme7


I'm not the first to say the Father is the only true God.. Jesus says it (John 17:3) and Paul said it (1 Cor 8:6). Now we have at least two bearing witness to this truth

The problem that comes with using prooftext is much is lost in translation from one language to another.
The Greek word holoteles (as close as I can get without Greek letters) literally means "complete to the end ie absolutely perfect-wholly. "  Strong's Complete Dictionary    Not exactly the same thing as true but that was as close as you could get with English and stay concise.
Now as far as Paul's statement I have not denied that there is one God.

Now I have presented my views and why I hold them and you have done the same.  I don't feel a need to attempt to prove I am right and you are wrong.  Like I said I don't think we will know this side of eternity.  That is why my communication with Howard is limited it seems he must prove he is absolutely correct on a subject that IMO there is no absolute.
Later brother.

I understand.. would you just comment on the relationship question I had? I cannot see how you could be a modalist and not believe God was having a relationship with himself.

Quote from: raggthyme7 on Fri Jul 20, 2012 - 15:52:11
"But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him."

Paul says clearly that there is but one God: the Father.

Paul's one God is not comprised of three persons. (unless you believe the Father is three persons... this poses a serious problem if you believe in the trinity.)

One true God, one Son of the true God, one Spirit of the true God.

Again, this is biblical. The trinity doctrine is not.

All I can say is that you don't know Paul very well. Scripture paints a portrait of a triune God. Holy Spirit is the one who teaches it. When you deny Him His rightful place, it's no wonder you cannot see it.