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Quote from: howard on Fri Jul 20, 2012 - 18:47:00

Quote from: raggthyme7 on Fri Jul 20, 2012 - 17:11:54

Quote from: Lively Stone on Fri Jul 20, 2012 - 14:42:08

Perhaps the logic escapes you.

Jesus came as a man. He cannot be everywhere at the same time as long as He is in His body.

No He cannot, but if the Holy Spirit is a person distinct from the Son, as taught in trinitarianism, this is not a sufficient answer. The Holy Spirit as a distinct person should be able to be on earth even though Jesus was in a body of flesh.

Jesus said that the HS cannot come unless he goes

The HS cannot be on earth while Jesus is on the earth

What does this have to do with what I said to Lively? I agree with you because that's what Jesus said. (John 16)

Quote from: raggthyme7 on Fri Jul 20, 2012 - 17:11:54

Quote from: Lively Stone on Fri Jul 20, 2012 - 14:42:08

Perhaps the logic escapes you.

Jesus came as a man. He cannot be everywhere at the same time as long as He is in His body.

No He cannot, but if the Holy Spirit is a person distinct from the Son, as taught in trinitarianism, this is not a sufficient answer. The Holy Spirit as a distinct person should be able to be on earth even though Jesus was in a body of flesh.

Well, sorry the truth is unsufficient for your satisfaction. You'll have to take it up with God about His inadequacy.

Quote

I understand.. would you just comment on the relationship question I had? I cannot see how you could be a modalist and not believe God was having a relationship with himself.

Sorry brother but I don't even understand the question.  What relationship are you talking about?  I believe God simply presented Himself in ways that we could understand.  A Father and son and a good friend that comforts us (HS).  The problem I have with Christ being a created or begotten IMO it would be no different that a parent that had a child to sacrifice to save another child that needs a body part to save him.  That is not my view of a just God.  The other problem I have is why would a God that has all power and can be every where at once have the need to create another eternal spirit to be a sacrifice?  Or do you think Jesus became eternal and was a worthy sacrifice  because he lived a sinless life?

Quote from: howard on Fri Jul 20, 2012 - 18:43:08

Quote from: Lively Stone on Fri Jul 20, 2012 - 14:48:22

Quote from: howardlets read because we have millions of christians who don't understand that there are more than one HS is the bible

That is a lie. There is only One Holy Spirit.

Why are you calling God's word a lie?
You error not knowing God's word

It is written that the Lord makes his angels spirit

Pay attention now

Angels = spirits

Let's read where the angels are called holy

Mark 8:38 (KJV)
Whosoever therefore shall be ashamed of me and of my words in this adulterous and sinful generation; of him also shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he cometh in the glory of his Father with the holy angels.

Holy angels or holy spirits

On holy angel or one holy spirit

Hebrews 12:22 (KJV)
But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,

Who is the liar?

You believe a lot of lies, howard. Dismantling them all will be quite the task, as you approach the scriptures with a whole other paradigm. You need to study what angels are and what they do, and then do an extensive and reliable study on Holy Spirit. They are two different subjects, and your persistence in intertwining  them just obfuscates the issue, here.

Quote from: howard on Fri Jul 20, 2012 - 18:52:39

Quote from: Lively Stone on Fri Jul 20, 2012 - 14:56:20

Quote from: raggthyme7 on Fri Jul 20, 2012 - 14:25:04

Quote from: howard on Fri Jul 20, 2012 - 14:13:32

Quote from: raggthyme7 on Fri Jul 20, 2012 - 14:07:30

Quote from: howard on Fri Jul 20, 2012 - 13:38:45

is Jesus God?

Are you asking me about the Son's nature/essence, or His title.. or are you asking if I believe Jesus is the one and only true God? I'd say yes, to the first two... no, to the third.

is Jesus God?

not the nature, not the essence, or if he the only true God.

is Jesus God according the bible

Well Thomas calls Him Lord and God.. does that mean Thomas believes Jesus is His Father or that God is a trinity? I personally don't believe so.

Thomas as one of Jesus' chosen twelve would have known and believed in God as a trinity! He believed in God the Father, knew and walked with Jesus as God the Son, and was introduced to God the Holy Spirit a few days after Jesus left.

Fortunately you can't read that in the bible
But we can read and we did where he called Jesus God

Yeah...I did read it in the Bible. Unfortunately, you have missed it.

Quote from: Lively Stone on Fri Jul 20, 2012 - 20:24:38

Quote from: raggthyme7 on Fri Jul 20, 2012 - 15:52:11
"But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him."

Paul says clearly that there is but one God: the Father.

Paul's one God is not comprised of three persons. (unless you believe the Father is three persons... this poses a serious problem if you believe in the trinity.)

One true God, one Son of the true God, one Spirit of the true God.

Again, this is biblical. The trinity doctrine is not.

All I can say is that you don't know Paul very well. Scripture paints a portrait of a triune God. Holy Spirit is the one who teaches it. When you deny Him His rightful place, it's no wonder you cannot see it.

I'm not talking about painting pictures.. anyone can piece scriptures together to form a doctrine. I'm talking about clear-cut statements made by Jesus Himself and by Paul.

Let me ask you this..

Jesus says the Father is the only true God. (John 17:3) Clear-cut statement.

Paul agrees saying there is but one God the Father (1 Corinthians 8:6.) Clear as crystal.

Trinitarianism disagrees: the only true God is not the Father, the one God is actually comprised of 3 distinct persons, the Father is only one of three.

Who should we believe?

a. Jesus and Paul     
b. trinitarians

Quote from: Lively Stone on Fri Jul 20, 2012 - 20:38:05

Quote from: raggthyme7 on Fri Jul 20, 2012 - 17:11:54

Quote from: Lively Stone on Fri Jul 20, 2012 - 14:42:08

Perhaps the logic escapes you.

Jesus came as a man. He cannot be everywhere at the same time as long as He is in His body.

No He cannot, but if the Holy Spirit is a person distinct from the Son, as taught in trinitarianism, this is not a sufficient answer. The Holy Spirit as a distinct person should be able to be on earth even though Jesus was in a body of flesh.

Well, sorry the truth is unsufficient for your satisfaction. You'll have to take it up with God about His inadequacy.

Lively, can you seriously not see the problem here?

Howard's question was about why the HS couldn't come until Jesus left. You said it was because Jesus couldn't be everywhere at one time while in a body of flesh. Yet you say the HS is a person distinct from Jesus. How does Jesus being in a body hinder another person from being everywhere at once?

Quote from: raggthyme7 on Fri Jul 20, 2012 - 21:08:31

Quote from: Lively Stone on Fri Jul 20, 2012 - 20:24:38

Quote from: raggthyme7 on Fri Jul 20, 2012 - 15:52:11
"But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him."

Paul says clearly that there is but one God: the Father.

Paul's one God is not comprised of three persons. (unless you believe the Father is three persons... this poses a serious problem if you believe in the trinity.)

One true God, one Son of the true God, one Spirit of the true God.

Again, this is biblical. The trinity doctrine is not.

All I can say is that you don't know Paul very well. Scripture paints a portrait of a triune God. Holy Spirit is the one who teaches it. When you deny Him His rightful place, it's no wonder you cannot see it.

I'm not talking about painting pictures.. anyone can piece scriptures together to form a doctrine. I'm talking about clear-cut statements made by Jesus Himself and by Paul.

Let me ask you this..

Jesus says the Father is the only true God. (John 17:3) Clear-cut statement.

Paul agrees saying there is but one God the Father (1 Corinthians 8:6.) Clear as crystal.

Trinitarianism disagrees: the only true God is not the Father, the one God is actually comprised of 3 distinct persons, the Father is only one of three.

Who should we believe?

a. Jesus and Paul     
b. trinitarians

Why shouldn't Jesus the Son take the submissive role and declare the Father? That is the role of Sonship! You just don't understand the Trinity. You aren't alone, but you needn't make any issue of it.

Johnb,

I put your words in bold text:

I cannot see how you could be a modalist and not believe God was having a relationship with himself.

Sorry brother but I don't even understand the question.  What relationship are you talking about? 


The one the Father has with His Son throughout all the Bible... starting in Genesis 1... all the way through to Revelation. 

I believe God simply presented Himself in ways that we could understand.  A Father and son and a good friend that comforts us (HS).

So to start, if God is presenting Himself as Father and as Son.. there is no real intimate relationship between two distinct and rational beings. Is that where you stand?

The problem I have with Christ being a created or begotten IMO it would be no different that a parent that had a child to sacrifice to save another child that needs a body part to save him.  That is not my view of a just God. The other problem I have is why would a God that has all power and can be every where at once have the need to create another eternal spirit to be a sacrifice? 

Again, the Son is Begotten, not made. I'm sure you've heard of The Drawbridge Keeper. Which would be more difficult, sacrificing yourself to save others.. or making a choice between a trainload of people and your own child?

God made the greatest and most difficult sacrifice:

For God so loved the world that He gave His only Begotten Son....

Quote from: raggthyme7 on Fri Jul 20, 2012 - 21:23:47

Quote from: Lively Stone on Fri Jul 20, 2012 - 20:38:05

Quote from: raggthyme7 on Fri Jul 20, 2012 - 17:11:54

Quote from: Lively Stone on Fri Jul 20, 2012 - 14:42:08

Perhaps the logic escapes you.

Jesus came as a man. He cannot be everywhere at the same time as long as He is in His body.

No He cannot, but if the Holy Spirit is a person distinct from the Son, as taught in trinitarianism, this is not a sufficient answer. The Holy Spirit as a distinct person should be able to be on earth even though Jesus was in a body of flesh.

Well, sorry the truth is unsufficient for your satisfaction. You'll have to take it up with God about His inadequacy.

Lively, can you seriously not see the problem here?

Howard's question was about why the HS couldn't come until Jesus left. You said it was because Jesus couldn't be everywhere at one time while in a body of flesh. Yet you say the HS is a person distinct from Jesus. How does Jesus being in a body hinder another person from being everywhere at once?

I am amazed at the lack of understanding here. Jesus being in a body hindered Him from being everywhere but in one particular geographical place at one time. You do get that, don't you?

He sent His Spirit who has the capacity to be everywhere at all times simultaneously---to do the works of Christ!

If you cannot see that, then you need  a boatload of prayer.

Quote from: Lively Stone on Fri Jul 20, 2012 - 22:01:31

Why shouldn't Jesus the Son take the submissive role and declare the Father? That is the role of Sonship!

No problem in Him declaring the Father! The problem for trinitarians is that He declared the first Person of their trinity as the only true God, and Himself as being sent by this God. This truth contradicts your belief system.

If you're going to use the "Son is submissive" argument, what of Paul's statement? He does not teach that the Father is only one of three persons, He says in 1 Cor 8:6 that there is but one God: and this is the Father.

Is the Father that Paul speaks of then Father, Son and Holy Spirit?

No ma'am, the Father is the only true God, Jesus is His only Begotten Son, the Spirit is the breath of life proceeding from both of them. That's what רוּחַ is!

The trinity is contrary to Bible truth. Sorry.

Quote from: raggthyme7 on Fri Jul 20, 2012 - 22:31:00

Quote from: Lively Stone on Fri Jul 20, 2012 - 22:01:31

Why shouldn't Jesus the Son take the submissive role and declare the Father? That is the role of Sonship!

No problem in Him declaring the Father! The problem for trinitarians is that He declared the first Person of their trinity as the only true God, and Himself as being sent by this God. This truth contradicts your belief system.

If your going to use the "Son is submissive" argument, what of Paul's statement? He does not teach that the Father is only one of three persons, He says in 1 Cor 8:6 that there is only one God: and this is the Father.

Is the Father that Paul speaks of then Father, Son and Holy Spirit?

No, the Father is the only true God, Jesus is His only Begotten Son, the Spirit is the breath of life proceeding from both of them. That's what רוּחַ is!

The trinity is contrary to Bible truth. Sorry.

You will have to take that up with God. The Father is Alpha and Omega, and so Is Jesus. It is a shared Godhead.

The Trinity consists of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit:


   1) Trinity – One God – Three Persons
        a) Matthew 28:18-20
            i) And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, "All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age." Amen.


    2) Was Part of Creation
        a) Genesis 1:1-2
            i) In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.The earth was without form, and void; and darkness was on the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters.


    3) Part of Salvation
        a) John 3:1-8
            The New Birth
            i) There was a man of the Pharisees named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews. This man came to Jesus by night and said to Him, "Rabbi, we know that You are a teacher come from God; for no one can do these signs that You do unless God is with him."

            Jesus answered and said to him, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."
            Nicodemus said to Him, "How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother's womb and be born?"
            Jesus answered, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Do not marvel that I said to you, 'You must be born again.' The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but cannot tell where it comes from and where it goes. So is everyone who is born of the Spirit."


    4) Promise from Jesus
        a) John 14:12-21
            i) "Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me, the works that I do he will do also; and greater works than these he will do, because I go to My Father. And whatever you ask in My name, that I will do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. If you ask anything in My name, I will do it. "If you love Me, keep My commandments. And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may abide with you forever— the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you. I will not leave you orphans; I will come to you. "A little while longer and the world will see Me no more, but you will see Me. Because I live, you will live also. At that day you will know that I am in My Father, and you in Me, and I in you. He who has My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me. And he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and manifest Myself to him."


    5) As a Teacher
        a) John 14:23-26
            i) Jesus answered and said to him, "If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our home with him. He who does not love Me does not keep My words; and the word which you hear is not Mine but the Father's who sent Me. "These things I have spoken to you while being present with you. But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you.


    6) Helper – Spirit of Truth
        a) John 15:26
            i) "But when the Helper comes, whom I shall send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth who proceeds from the Father, He will testify of Me.


    7) Convicts – Guides
        a) John 16:7-15
            i) Nevertheless I tell you the truth. It is to your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you; but if I depart, I will send Him to you. And when He has come, He will convict the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: of sin, because they do not believe in Me; of righteousness, because I go to My Father and you see Me no more; of judgment, because the ruler of this world is judged.
            "I still have many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now. However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you things to come. He will glorify Me, for He will take of what is Mine and declare it to you. All things that the Father has are Mine. Therefore I said that He will take of Mine and declare it to you.


    8) Gives Power
        a) Acts 1:6-8
            i) Therefore, when they had come together, they asked Him, saying, "Lord, will You at this time restore the kingdom to Israel?" 7 And He said to them, "It is not for you to know times or seasons which the Father has put in His own authority. 8 But you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be witnesses to Me in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth."


    9) Baptizes
        a) Acts 2:1-4
            i) When the Day of Pentecost had fully come, they were all with one accord in one place. And suddenly there came a sound from heaven, as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled the whole house where they were sitting. Then there appeared to them divided tongues, as of fire, and one sat upon each of them. And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
            ii) Then I remembered the word of the Lord, how He said, 'John indeed baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit.


    10) Comfort in Fear
        a) Acts 9:26-31
            i) And when Saul had come to Jerusalem, he tried to join the disciples; but they were all afraid of him, and did not believe that he was a disciple. But Barnabas took him and brought him to the apostles. And he declared to them how he had seen the Lord on the road, and that He had spoken to him, and how he had preached boldly at Damascus in the name of Jesus. So he was with them at Jerusalem, coming in and going out. And he spoke boldly in the name of the Lord Jesus and disputed against the Hellenists, but they attempted to kill him. When the brethren found out, they brought him down to Caesarea and sent him out to Tarsus.


    11) Delivers from the Power of Flesh
        a) Romans 8:1-39
            i) There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death. For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh, that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God. But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His. And if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you. Therefore, brethren, we are debtors—not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God. For you did not receive the spirit of bondage again to fear, but you received the Spirit of adoption by whom we cry out, "Abba, Father." The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God, and if children, then heirs—heirs of God and joint heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with Him, that we may also be glorified together. For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us. For the earnest expectation of the creation eagerly waits for the revealing of the sons of God. For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it in hope; because the creation itself also will be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. For we know that the whole creation groans and labors with birth pangs together until now. Not only that, but we also who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, eagerly waiting for the adoption, the redemption of our body. For we were saved in this hope, but hope that is seen is not hope; for why does one still hope for what he sees? But if we hope for what we do not see, we eagerly wait for it with perseverance. Likewise the Spirit also helps in our weaknesses. For we do not know what we should pray for as we ought, but the Spirit Himself makes intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered. Now He who searches the hearts knows what the mind of the Spirit is, because He makes intercession for the saints according to the will of God. And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose. For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified. What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who can be against us? He who did not spare His own Son, but delivered Him up for us all, how shall He not with Him also freely give us all things? Who shall bring a charge against God's elect? It is God who justifies. Who is he who condemns? It is Christ who died, and furthermore is also risen, who is even at the right hand of God, who also makes intercession for us. Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?


   

continued...

12) Righteousness, Peace, Joy
        a) Romans 14:16-17
            i) Therefore do not let your good be spoken of as evil; for the kingdom of God is not eating and drinking, but righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit.


    13) Spirit of man vs. Spirit of God
        a) 1 Corinthians 2:10-16
            i) But God has revealed them to us through His Spirit. For the Spirit searches all things, yes, the deep things of God. For what man knows the things of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so no one knows the things of God except the Spirit of God. Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might know the things that have been freely given to us by God.
            These things we also speak, not in words which man's wisdom teaches but which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual. But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. But he who is spiritual judges all things, yet he himself is rightly judged by no one. For "who has known the mind of the LORD that he may instruct Him?" But we have the mind of Christ.

        b) 2 Corinthians 5:17
            i) Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new.


    14) Washed, Sanctified, Justified
        a) 1 Corinthians 6:11
            i) And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.


    15) Body is the Temple of the Holy Spirit
        a) 1 Corinthians 6:19
            i) Or do you not know that your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and you are not your own?


    16) Gifts from the Holy Spirit
        a) 1 Corinthians 12:1-31
            i) Now concerning spiritual gifts, brethren, I do not want you to be ignorant: You know that you were Gentiles, carried away to these dumb idols, however you were led. Therefore I make known to you that no one speaking by the Spirit of God calls Jesus accursed, and no one can say that Jesus is Lord except by the Holy Spirit. There are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit. There are differences of ministries, but the same Lord. And there are diversities of activities, but it is the same God who works all in all. But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to each one for the profit of all: for to one is given the word of wisdom through the Spirit, to another the word of knowledge through the same Spirit, to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healings by the same Spirit, to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another discerning of spirits, to another different kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues. But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually as He wills. For as the body is one and has many members, but all the members of that one body, being many, are one body, so also is Christ. For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free—and have all been made to drink into one Spirit. For in fact the body is not one member but many. If the foot should say, "Because I am not a hand, I am not of the body," is it therefore not of the body? And if the ear should say, "Because I am not an eye, I am not of the body," is it therefore not of the body? If the whole body were an eye, where would be the hearing? If the whole were hearing, where would be the smelling? But now God has set the members, each one of them, in the body just as He pleased. And if they were all one member, where would the body be? But now indeed there are many members, yet one body. And the eye cannot say to the hand, "I have no need of you"; nor again the head to the feet, "I have no need of you." No, much rather, those members of the body which seem to be weaker are necessary. And those members of the body which we think to be less honorable, on these we bestow greater honor; and our unpresentable parts have greater modesty, but our presentable parts have no need. But God composed the body, having given greater honor to that part which lacks it, that there should be no schism in the body, but that the members should have the same care for one another. And if one member suffers, all the members suffer with it; or if one member is honored, all the members rejoice with it. Now you are the body of Christ, and members individually. And God has appointed these in the church: first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, administrations, varieties of tongues. Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Are all workers of miracles? Do all have gifts of healings? Do all speak with tongues? Do all interpret? But earnestly desire the best gifts. And yet I show you a more excellent way.


    17) Fellowship with
        a) 2 Corinthians 13:14
            i) The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the communion of the Holy Spirit be with you all.


    18) Conflicts between the Spirit and the flesh
        a) Galatians 5:16-21
            i) I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish. But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law. Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.


    19) Fruits of the Spirit
        a) Galatians 5:22-26
            i) But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law. And those who are Christ's have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit. Let us not become conceited, provoking one another, envying one another.


    20) Do Not grieve the Spirit
        a) Ephesians 4:30-32
            i) And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption. Let all bitterness, wrath, anger, clamor, and evil speaking be put away from you, with all malice. And be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God in Christ forgave you.


    21) Whole Armor of God
        a) Ephesians 6:19-17
            i) Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord and in the power of His might. Put on the whole armor of God, that you may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil. For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places. Therefore take up the whole armor of God, that you may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand. Stand therefore, having girded your waist with truth, having put on the breastplate of righteousness, and having shod your feet with the preparation of the gospel of peace; above all, taking the shield of faith with which you will be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked one. And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God;


    22) Wrote the Bible
        a) 2 Timothy 3:16-17
            i) All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.


    23) Test the Spirits
        a) 1 John 4:1-6
            i) Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world. By this you know the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is of God, and every spirit that does not confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is not of God. And this is the spirit of the Antichrist, which you have heard was coming, and is now already in the world. You are of God, little children, and have overcome them, because He who is in you is greater than he who is in the world. They are of the world. Therefore they speak as of the world, and the world hears them. We are of God. He who knows God hears us; he who is not of God does not hear us. By this we know the spirit of truth and the spirit of error.


    24) Spirit of the Antichrist Discernment
        a) 1 John 2:18-29
            i) Little children, it is the last hour; and as you have heard that the Antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come, by which we know that it is the last hour. They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us. But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and you know all things. I have not written to you because you do not know the truth, but because you know it, and that no lie is of the truth. Who is a liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist who denies the Father and the Son. Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father either; he who acknowledges the Son has the Father also. Therefore let that abide in you which you heard from the beginning. If what you heard from the beginning abides in you, you also will abide in the Son and in the Father. And this is the promise that He has promised us—eternal life. These things I have written to you concerning those who try to deceive you. But the anointing which you have received from Him abides in you, and you do not need that anyone teach you; but as the same anointing teaches you concerning all things, and is true, and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you will abide in Him.

Quote from: Lively Stone on Fri Jul 20, 2012 - 22:47:34

You will have to take that up with God. The Father is Alpha and Omega, and so Is Jesus. It is a shared Godhead.

And again you take the easy way out rather than dealing with the scriptures at hand. That's fine.

We have seen from the scriptures presented that both Jesus and Paul call your "first Person of the trinity" the only true God. And Jesus is His only Begotten Son.

So we have:

One true God, His Son, His Spirit.

not

One true God: Father, Son and Spirit.

Maybe you should take that up with the Father. I'm not the one who has a problem with clear-cut statements.

Quote from: raggthyme7 on Fri Jul 20, 2012 - 23:06:05

Quote from: Lively Stone on Fri Jul 20, 2012 - 22:47:34

You will have to take that up with God. The Father is Alpha and Omega, and so Is Jesus. It is a shared Godhead.

And again you take the easy way out rather than dealing with the scriptures at hand. That's fine.

We have seen from the scriptures presented that both Jesus and Paul call your "first Person of the trinity" the only true God. And Jesus is His only Begotten Son.

So we have:

One true God, His Son, His Spirit.

not

One true God: Father, Son and Spirit.

Maybe you should take that up with the Father. I'm not the one who has a problem with clear-cut statements.

I don't need any easy way out of anything. I know God the Father, and the Son, Jesus and I am empowered by Holy Spirit. I know God as Three Persons.

Quote from: Lively Stone on Fri Jul 20, 2012 - 22:08:10

Quote from: raggthyme7 on Fri Jul 20, 2012 - 21:23:47

Quote from: Lively Stone on Fri Jul 20, 2012 - 20:38:05

Quote from: raggthyme7 on Fri Jul 20, 2012 - 17:11:54

Quote from: Lively Stone on Fri Jul 20, 2012 - 14:42:08

Perhaps the logic escapes you.

Jesus came as a man. He cannot be everywhere at the same time as long as He is in His body.

No He cannot, but if the Holy Spirit is a person distinct from the Son, as taught in trinitarianism, this is not a sufficient answer. The Holy Spirit as a distinct person should be able to be on earth even though Jesus was in a body of flesh.

Well, sorry the truth is unsufficient for your satisfaction. You'll have to take it up with God about His inadequacy.

Lively, can you seriously not see the problem here?

Howard's question was about why the HS couldn't come until Jesus left. You said it was because Jesus couldn't be everywhere at one time while in a body of flesh. Yet you say the HS is a person distinct from Jesus. How does Jesus being in a body hinder another person from being everywhere at once?

I am amazed at the lack of understanding here. Jesus being in a body hindered Him from being everywhere but in one particular geographical place at one time. You do get that, don't you?

He sent His Spirit who has the capacity to be everywhere at all times simultaneously---to do the works of Christ!

If you cannot see that, then you need  a boatload of prayer.

No, I get that perfectly. Jesus was in a body so He couldn't be everywhere at once. Check.

But my question was, how does His being in a body hinder ANOTHER PERSON from being everywhere at once.

Quote from: raggthyme7 on Fri Jul 20, 2012 - 23:54:12

Quote from: Lively Stone on Fri Jul 20, 2012 - 22:08:10

Quote from: raggthyme7 on Fri Jul 20, 2012 - 21:23:47

Quote from: Lively Stone on Fri Jul 20, 2012 - 20:38:05

Quote from: raggthyme7 on Fri Jul 20, 2012 - 17:11:54

Quote from: Lively Stone on Fri Jul 20, 2012 - 14:42:08

Perhaps the logic escapes you.

Jesus came as a man. He cannot be everywhere at the same time as long as He is in His body.

No He cannot, but if the Holy Spirit is a person distinct from the Son, as taught in trinitarianism, this is not a sufficient answer. The Holy Spirit as a distinct person should be able to be on earth even though Jesus was in a body of flesh.

Well, sorry the truth is unsufficient for your satisfaction. You'll have to take it up with God about His inadequacy.

Lively, can you seriously not see the problem here?

Howard's question was about why the HS couldn't come until Jesus left. You said it was because Jesus couldn't be everywhere at one time while in a body of flesh. Yet you say the HS is a person distinct from Jesus. How does Jesus being in a body hinder another person from being everywhere at once?

I am amazed at the lack of understanding here. Jesus being in a body hindered Him from being everywhere but in one particular geographical place at one time. You do get that, don't you?

He sent His Spirit who has the capacity to be everywhere at all times simultaneously---to do the works of Christ!

If you cannot see that, then you need  a boatload of prayer.

No, I get that perfectly. Jesus was in a body so He couldn't be everywhere at once. Check.

But my question was, how does His being in a body hinder ANOTHER PERSON from being everywhere at once.

Your question is nonsensical. No one hindered anyone. Jesus had His time. Holy Spirit has His.

Quote from: Lively Stone on Sat Jul 21, 2012 - 00:13:57

Quote from: raggthyme7 on Fri Jul 20, 2012 - 23:54:12

Quote from: Lively Stone on Fri Jul 20, 2012 - 22:08:10

Quote from: raggthyme7 on Fri Jul 20, 2012 - 21:23:47

Quote from: Lively Stone on Fri Jul 20, 2012 - 20:38:05

Quote from: raggthyme7 on Fri Jul 20, 2012 - 17:11:54

Quote from: Lively Stone on Fri Jul 20, 2012 - 14:42:08

Perhaps the logic escapes you.

Jesus came as a man. He cannot be everywhere at the same time as long as He is in His body.

No He cannot, but if the Holy Spirit is a person distinct from the Son, as taught in trinitarianism, this is not a sufficient answer. The Holy Spirit as a distinct person should be able to be on earth even though Jesus was in a body of flesh.

Well, sorry the truth is unsufficient for your satisfaction. You'll have to take it up with God about His inadequacy.

Lively, can you seriously not see the problem here?

Howard's question was about why the HS couldn't come until Jesus left. You said it was because Jesus couldn't be everywhere at one time while in a body of flesh. Yet you say the HS is a person distinct from Jesus. How does Jesus being in a body hinder another person from being everywhere at once?

I am amazed at the lack of understanding here. Jesus being in a body hindered Him from being everywhere but in one particular geographical place at one time. You do get that, don't you?

He sent His Spirit who has the capacity to be everywhere at all times simultaneously---to do the works of Christ!

If you cannot see that, then you need  a boatload of prayer.

No, I get that perfectly. Jesus was in a body so He couldn't be everywhere at once. Check.

But my question was, how does His being in a body hinder ANOTHER PERSON from being everywhere at once.

Your question is nonsensical. No one hindered anyone. Jesus had His time. Holy Spirit has His.

Lively, you baffle me. You say Jesus is one person, Holy Spirit is another. You say the reason both persons could not be on earth at once is because Jesus was confined to a body.  Huh?

Why does the second person of a trinity being in His body have anything at all to do with what the third person does? They are two distinct persons according to trinitarians. If this were true, Jesus could be in His body of flesh while the Holy Spirit filled the earth.

But then this must be that "mystery" you were talking about. ;)

There's a better answer to howard's question and I'm hoping you will see it. That's why I keep discussing your answer with you.

Quote from: raggthyme7 on Sat Jul 21, 2012 - 00:28:04

Lively, you baffle me. You say Jesus is one person, Holy Spirit is another. You say the reason both persons could not be on earth at once is because Jesus was confined to a body.  Huh?

Why does the second person of a trinity being in His body have anything at all to do with what the third person does? They are two distinct persons according to trinitarians. If this were true, Jesus could be in His body of flesh while the Holy Spirit filled the earth.

What's so hard to understand there? Holy Spirit never filled the Earth until He was SENT after Jesus left---God's plan. You can't argue with God! Do you question the wisdom of God Almighty?

QuoteBut then this must be that "mystery" you were talking about. ;)

It's not a mystery to me.

QuoteThere's a better answer to howard's question and I'm hoping you will see it. That's why I keep discussing your answer with you.

I doubt that, but you go ahead and try.

Quote from: Lively Stone on Sat Jul 21, 2012 - 00:39:10

Quote from: raggthyme7 on Sat Jul 21, 2012 - 00:28:04

Lively, you baffle me. You say Jesus is one person, Holy Spirit is another. You say the reason both persons could not be on earth at once is because Jesus was confined to a body.  Huh?

Why does the second person of a trinity being in His body have anything at all to do with what the third person does?

What's so hard to understand there? Holy Spirit never filled the Earth until He was SENT after Jesus left---

Now that's more like it. 

Why couldn't both be on earth at one time? The answer is not because Jesus was confined to a body and unable to be everywhere at once.. (the one you first gave howard). The answer is that Jesus first had to be glorified! John 7:39

After His ascension He sent the promise of the Father, that power from on high, and through His own witnesses (filled with His Spirit) the world was convicted of sin, of righteousness and of judgment.

Quote from: raggthyme7 on Sat Jul 21, 2012 - 01:19:56

Quote from: Lively Stone on Sat Jul 21, 2012 - 00:39:10

Quote from: raggthyme7 on Sat Jul 21, 2012 - 00:28:04

Lively, you baffle me. You say Jesus is one person, Holy Spirit is another. You say the reason both persons could not be on earth at once is because Jesus was confined to a body.  Huh?

Why does the second person of a trinity being in His body have anything at all to do with what the third person does?

What's so hard to understand there? Holy Spirit never filled the Earth until He was SENT after Jesus left---

Now that's more like it. 

Why couldn't both be on earth at one time? The answer is not because Jesus was confined to a body and unable to be everywhere at once.. (the one you first gave howard). The answer is that Jesus first had to be glorified! John 7:39

After His ascension He sent the promise of the Father, that power from on high, and through His own witnesses (filled with His Spirit) the world was convicted of sin, of righteousness and of judgment.

Yes, that is right. It is all God's plan from the beginning. It also is true that while Jesus was here ministering to the few, Holy Spirit was working through Him, fulfilling His purpose for that time, just as He was fulfilling His purpose in the OT. After Jesus ascended to the Father, Holy Spirit was sent to the world, to work in and through believers, as Christ, to this very day.

Quote from: Lively Stone on Fri Jul 20, 2012 - 20:45:01

Quote from: howard on Fri Jul 20, 2012 - 18:43:08

Quote from: Lively Stone on Fri Jul 20, 2012 - 14:48:22

Quote from: howardlets read because we have millions of christians who don't understand that there are more than one HS is the bible

That is a lie. There is only One Holy Spirit.

Why are you calling God's word a lie?
You error not knowing God's word

It is written that the Lord makes his angels spirit

Pay attention now

Angels = spirits

Let's read where the angels are called holy

Mark 8:38 (KJV)
Whosoever therefore shall be ashamed of me and of my words in this adulterous and sinful generation; of him also shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he cometh in the glory of his Father with the holy angels.

Holy angels or holy spirits

On holy angel or one holy spirit

Hebrews 12:22 (KJV)
But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,

Who is the liar?

You believe a lot of lies, howard. Dismantling them all will be quite the task, as you approach the scriptures with a whole other paradigm. You need to study what angels are and what they do, and then do an extensive and reliable study on Holy Spirit. They are two different subjects, and your persistence in intertwining  them just obfuscates the issue, here.

LS

You are weigh over your head on this topic, everyone sees it. You believe in something you know nothing about. The Lord said rightly divide the Word , you call it intertwining that's funny.

The bottom line is the trinity was started in the 4th century , history proves this
Your their of 3 in 1 or 1 in 3 again was left unproven

And as typical Christians do when they don't understand something they slide into name calling
Let me leave you with this, God did not leave his answers or word to the Gentiles
I want to see how much you or anyone really believe Paul
Jesus left his word to Israel all the answers of God the Israelites have
The decision of the trinity is a Gentile doctrine
let's read the as my topics are loaded with

Romans 3:1-2 (KJV)
What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision? [2] Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God.

Do you believe this?

I do

Who has the answers of God?
I know who don't,  those guys meeting in the 4th century concerning the trinity, Easter and Sunday worship don't.

If you are not convinced here is another of Paul's writings

Romans 9:3-4 (KJV)
For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh: [4] Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God , and the promises;

Who told the Gentiles to change and add things to the bible?
The Israelites did not teach a trinity, the trinity is not in the bible, God the HS is not in the bible

Quote from: Lively Stone on Sat Jul 21, 2012 - 01:50:19

Quote from: raggthyme7 on Sat Jul 21, 2012 - 01:19:56

Quote from: Lively Stone on Sat Jul 21, 2012 - 00:39:10

Quote from: raggthyme7 on Sat Jul 21, 2012 - 00:28:04

Lively, you baffle me. You say Jesus is one person, Holy Spirit is another. You say the reason both persons could not be on earth at once is because Jesus was confined to a body.  Huh?

Why does the second person of a trinity being in His body have anything at all to do with what the third person does?

What's so hard to understand there? Holy Spirit never filled the Earth until He was SENT after Jesus left---

Now that's more like it. 

Why couldn't both be on earth at one time? The answer is not because Jesus was confined to a body and unable to be everywhere at once.. (the one you first gave howard). The answer is that Jesus first had to be glorified! John 7:39

After His ascension He sent the promise of the Father, that power from on high, and through His own witnesses (filled with His Spirit) the world was convicted of sin, of righteousness and of judgment.

Yes, that is right. It is all God's plan from the beginning. It also is true that while Jesus was here ministering to the few, Holy Spirit was working through Him, fulfilling His purpose for that time, just as He was fulfilling His purpose in the OT. After Jesus ascended to the Father, Holy Spirit was sent to the world, to work in and through believers, as Christ, to this very day.

Where is this written?
If this was God's plan why did he leave his word written?

We are to read and do what is written in God's word
The HS job is to help us along in our walk and teachings
Go and read what the job of the HS

Quote from: howard on Sat Jul 21, 2012 - 04:00:01

Quote from: Lively Stone on Fri Jul 20, 2012 - 20:45:01

Quote from: howard on Fri Jul 20, 2012 - 18:43:08

Quote from: Lively Stone on Fri Jul 20, 2012 - 14:48:22

Quote from: howardlets read because we have millions of christians who don't understand that there are more than one HS is the bible

That is a lie. There is only One Holy Spirit.

Why are you calling God's word a lie?
You error not knowing God's word

It is written that the Lord makes his angels spirit

Pay attention now

Angels = spirits

Let's read where the angels are called holy

Mark 8:38 (KJV)
Whosoever therefore shall be ashamed of me and of my words in this adulterous and sinful generation; of him also shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he cometh in the glory of his Father with the holy angels.

Holy angels or holy spirits

On holy angel or one holy spirit

Hebrews 12:22 (KJV)
But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,

Who is the liar?

You believe a lot of lies, howard. Dismantling them all will be quite the task, as you approach the scriptures with a whole other paradigm. You need to study what angels are and what they do, and then do an extensive and reliable study on Holy Spirit. They are two different subjects, and your persistence in intertwining  them just obfuscates the issue, here.

LS

You are weigh over your head on this topic, everyone sees it. You believe in something you know nothing about. The Lord said rightly divide the Word , you call it intertwining that's funny.

The bottom line is the trinity was started in the 4th century , history proves this
Your theory of 3 in 1 or 1 in 3 again was left unproven

And as typical Christians do when they don't understand something they slide into name calling
Let me leave you with this, God did not leave his answers or word to the Gentiles
I want to see how much you or anyone really believe Paul
Jesus left his word to Israel all the answers of God the Israelites have
The decision of the trinity is a Gentile doctrine
let's read the as my topics are loaded with

Romans 3:1-2 (KJV)
What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision? [2] Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God.

Do you believe this?

I do

Who has the answers of God?
I know who don't,  those guys meeting in the 4th century concerning the trinity, Easter and Sunday worship don't.

If you are not convinced here is another of Paul's writings

Romans 9:3-4 (KJV)
For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh: [4] Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God , and the promises;

Who told the Gentiles to change and add things to the bible?
The Israelites did not teach a trinity, the trinity is not in the bible, God the HS is not in the bible

Where is the HS? Pay close attention to who God sent to the beloved prophet Daniel.

Daniel 9:21-23 (KJV)
Yea, whiles I was speaking in prayer, even the man Gabriel, whom I had seen in the vision at the beginning, being caused to fly swiftly, touched me about the time of the evening oblation

[22] And he informed me , and talked with me, and said, O Daniel, I am now come forth to give thee skill and understanding.

[23] At the beginning of thy supplications the commandment came forth, and I am come to shew thee ; for thou art greatly beloved: therefore understand the matter, and consider the vision.

Who  was sent to show Daniel things?
Who was sent to give Daniel skills and understanding


Where is the HS?
Why is Gabriel doing the HS job?

Let's head to the last book in th bible and I will ask the same question  where is the HS?
Why is the angel or Angels doing his job?

Pay close attention to what we are about to read

Revelation 22:6,8-9 (KJV)
And he said unto me, These sayings are faithful and true: and the Lord God of the holy prophets sent his angel to shew unto his servants the things which must shortly be done.

8] And I John saw these things, and heard them . And when I had heard and seen, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel which shewed me these things.

9] Then saith he unto me, See thou do it not: for I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of this book: worship God.

Why is the angel mentioned and the God the HS not?
We have here the angels doing the job of God the HS

howard, being that you dont believe in ther divinity of the holy Spirit, and think that he is the angel gabriel, do you have mormon roots? I believe thats what they teach. Or are you a mormon?

Let's skip down in the same chapter to read about the angels doing there job

Revelation 22:16 (KJV)
I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.


Jesus said he sent his angel (one angel) to testify of him
Lets go Back to Jesus sending the comforter


John 15:26 (KJV)
But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:

The  comforter and the angel has the same job they both are sent by Jesus and they both testify of Jesus

Why is that?

Quote from: chosenone on Sat Jul 21, 2012 - 04:34:19
howard, being that you dont believe in ther divinity of the holy Spirit, and think that he is the angel gabriel, do you have mormon roots? I believe thats what they teach. Or are you a mormon?

Do you come as friend or foe ?


No Mormon roots. The Mormons are a denomination created by a man.
I am a bible Christian.  I read the bible all of it. I am a American citizen who speaks and reads English
I read the English KJV .

The HS is holy
The word divinit is not in the bible, I assume it means God
The HS is not God
If it is you are welcome to show me

Unless you are planning to ban me

 I can't find my topic Christian verses Chrisitans in the theology section
I assume the Moderators deleted it.

This is a controversial topic this is why it is in this section a section created by the Admin for such subjects.

I expected the participation to be much higher because of the 1000's of trinity believers
What I did not expect was a few Unitarians.

What I expect is more bible verses and history to justify the trinity belief what I did not expect is no calling from someone who has done this before.

It goes with the territory

Where are the trinitarians come and defend your belief

Prove all things

The bible tells us that we would be liars if we didn't confess that Jesus came in the flesh. It doesn't say that about God or the HS. We don't have to confess that the other 2 are flesh/persons.

2 John 1:7 Many deceivers, who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh, have gone out into the world. Any such person is the deceiver and the antichrist.

1 John 4:1 (KJV)
Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

Let's try the spirit, let's see if God the HS is in you.

Quote from: howard on Sat Jul 21, 2012 - 04:46:04

Quote from: chosenone on Sat Jul 21, 2012 - 04:34:19
Howard, being that you don't believe in ther divinity of the holy Spirit, and think that he is the angel gabriel, do you have mormon roots? I believe thats what they teach. Or are you a mormon?

Do you come as friend or foe ?


No Mormon roots. The Mormons are a denomination created by a man.
I am a bible Christian.  I read the bible all of it. I am a American citizen who speaks and reads English
I read the English KJV .

The HS is holy
The word divinit is not in the bible, I assume it means God
The HS is not God
If it is you are welcome to show me

Unless you are planning to ban me

So what church/denomination do you go to that teaches this? I have never ever heard of this idea before and so am intrigued.
How do you explain the fact that the The Holy Spirit is in us as believers, and yet is the angel Gabriel who cant obviously be in anyone?

Howard could you please provide the exact verse in the bible that states that the Holy Spirit is not God.

And that the Holy Spirit is Just a Angel