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Genesis 1:2 (KJV)
And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

The Father is God and He sits on a throne

Jesus is God He sits on a throne

Obviously these two God's don't get there hands dirty because they are God, they give orders

Who is this spirit moving on the waters ?

No the exact verse thanks or we both can come up with different views cant we?

Quote from: bemark on Sat Jul 21, 2012 - 05:07:05
Howard could you please provide the exact verse in the bible that states that the Holy Spirit is not God.

And that the Holy Spirit is Just a Angel

I've done the angel connection many times

As far s the HS is not God there is no exact verse

yes you have,  and there are many scriptures posted here indicating that the Holy Spirit is God.If you took your verses and placed them against the ones posted,  and if you were a betting man and your life depended upon it where would you place your money?

Quote from: bemark on Sat Jul 21, 2012 - 05:13:05
No the exact verse thanks or we both can come up with different views cant we?

There is no different view there is one view and it is God's view

Show me the word trinity or God the HS, you can't just as I can't show you the exact verse because it's not there, yet I can show you as I have done many verses that the HS is not God
And you can't show me one place the he is God

The troubling thing here is that in fact God The Father, Jesus and The Holy Spirit were all there from the beginning, and are divine(God), whereas the Angel Gabriel is a created being.  The creator cannot be the created.

I also find it troubling Howard, that those like you who have such strange ideas, (and we have one or two more here as well) always deny they are part of a cult, but that they alone have the truth, which is EXACTLY what those in cults say.. 

The thought just hit me like a thunderbolt. What you are saying Howard, is in fact getting pretty close to the unforgivable sin of blaspheming the Holy Spirit
If I were you, I would do some repenting pretty quick.   If the Spirit was an angel, why would that sin be unforgivable?

Quote from: bemark on Sat Jul 21, 2012 - 05:22:22
yes you have,  and there are many scriptures posted here indicating that the Holy Spirit is God.If you took your verses and placed them against the ones posted,  and if you were a betting man and your life depended upon it where would you place your money?

There not one verse indicating the HS is God what you have is people reading the word spirit or HS an thinking that it is God the HS
  If you read the verses I put and compare them to the job of the HS it let's us know that the angel and the Comforter has the same job

Quote from: howard on Sat Jul 21, 2012 - 05:22:57

Quote from: bemark on Sat Jul 21, 2012 - 05:13:05
No the exact verse thanks or we both can come up with different views cant we?

There is no different view there is one view and it is God's view

Show me the word trinity or God the HS, you can't just as I can't show you the exact verse because it's not there, yet I can show you as I have done many verses that the HS is not God
And you can't show me one place the he is God

1 to 10 odds against you buddy.not a solid bet on any ones books.I will post again tomorrow and catch up.

Quote from: chosenone on Sat Jul 21, 2012 - 05:26:43
The thought just hit me like a thunderbolt. What you are saying Howard, is in fact getting pretty close to the unforgivable sin of blaspheming the Holy Spirit
If I were you, I would do some repenting pretty quick.   If the Spirit was an angel, why would that sin be unforgivable?

What hit you is a burst of emotions

If I was using my own words then you might have a point
I'm using God's word and posting the verses so we all can rea it ourselves

What you are saying is folly. If I'm doing what you are saying prove it wrong
Take every verses I put and prove it wrong

Quote from: bemark on Sat Jul 21, 2012 - 05:30:58

Quote from: howard on Sat Jul 21, 2012 - 05:22:57

Quote from: bemark on Sat Jul 21, 2012 - 05:13:05
No the exact verse thanks or we both can come up with different views cant we?

There is no different view there is one view and it is God's view

Show me the word trinity or God the HS, you can't just as I can't show you the exact verse because it's not there, yet I can show you as I have done many verses that the HS is not God
And you can't show me one place the he is God

1 to 10 odds against you buddy.not a solid bet on any ones books.I will post again tomorrow and catch up.

I hope you are not all talk, I take you up on that challenge.  I've put a lot of God's word already so buddy you have a lot of reading to do. The odds are not against me Brother, this is God's word I quote
Your battle is against God word not me all I'm gonna do is put God's word
Look forward to your challenge
Peace in Jesus

Quote from: chosenone on Sat Jul 21, 2012 - 05:23:27

I also find it troubling Howard, that those like you who have such strange ideas, (and we have one or two more here as well) always deny they are part of a cult, but that they alone have the truth, which is EXACTLY what those in cults say..

Are you implying that we are cultist? That's against the rules.

Part of a definition of cult; an instance of great veneration of a person, ideal, or thing, especially as manifested by a body of admirers: the physical fitness cult.

This can be said about the trinitarians too. There are people here that claim to be a part of this, they call themselves trinitarians. Do you see us calling ourselves anything? No, but you just implied we were in a cult. It would probably be best that you just don't use that word when judging members here.

Quote from: chosenone on Sat Jul 21, 2012 - 05:23:27
The troubling thing here is that in fact God The Father, Jesus and The Holy Spirit were all there from the beginning, and are divine(God), whereas the Angel Gabriel is a created being.  The creator cannot be the created.

I also find it troubling Howard, that those like you who have such strange ideas, (and we have one or two more here as well) always deny they are part of a cult, but that they alone have the truth, which is EXACTLY what those in cults say..

The angel is created and the angel is a spirit we read this
The Father is God
The Son is God
2 Gods
Not 3
Not 1
What I find troubling is that you have not shown me where the HS is God
What I find troubling is that you believe in a man made doctrine
What is find troubling is that you now decide who and what a cult is making yourself God
Maybe you are saying you are the 3rd member of the trinity?
Are you saying this? Are you capable of determining who is a cult and who is not?

How about participating on the topic by answering the question
Unles you don't know chosen one?

Quote from: Bitter Sweet on Sat Jul 21, 2012 - 05:38:37

Quote from: chosenone on Sat Jul 21, 2012 - 05:23:27

I also find it troubling Howard, that those like you who have such strange ideas, (and we have one or two more here as well) always deny they are part of a cult, but that they alone have the truth, which is EXACTLY what those in cults say..

Are you implying that we are cultist? That's against the rules.

Part of a definition of cult; an instance of great veneration of a person, ideal, or thing, especially as manifested by a body of admirers: the physical fitness cult.

This can be said about the trinitarians too. There are people here that claim to be a part of this, they call themselves trinitarians. Do you see us calling ourselves anything? No, but you just implied we were in a cult. It would probably be best that you just don't use that word when judging members here.

The person is speaking out of emotions clouded judgement Worldly words.
Because of there position as Moderator my words and response must be contained
Bible Christians know who the cults are
The cults that I have ran across usually speak there own words, rarely quote bible and speak with emotions.

Genesis 1:2 (KJV)
And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

The Father is God and He sits on a throne

Jesus is God He sits on a throne

Obviously these two God's don't get there hands dirty because they are God, they give orders

Who is this spirit moving on the waters ?

Quote from: howard on Sat Jul 21, 2012 - 06:08:21

Quote from: Bitter Sweet on Sat Jul 21, 2012 - 05:38:37

Quote from: chosenone on Sat Jul 21, 2012 - 05:23:27

I also find it troubling Howard, that those like you who have such strange ideas, (and we have one or two more here as well) always deny they are part of a cult, but that they alone have the truth, which is EXACTLY what those in cults say..

Are you implying that we are cultist? That's against the rules.

Part of a definition of cult; an instance of great veneration of a person, ideal, or thing, especially as manifested by a body of admirers: the physical fitness cult.

This can be said about the trinitarians too. There are people here that claim to be a part of this, they call themselves trinitarians. Do you see us calling ourselves anything? No, but you just implied we were in a cult. It would probably be best that you just don't use that word when judging members here.

The person is speaking out of emotions clouded judgement Worldly words.
Because of there position as Moderator my words and response must be contained
Bible Christians know who the cults are
The cults that I have ran across usually speak there own words, rarely quote bible and speak with emotions.

I agree, righteous judgement doesn't involve name calling or accusations, those come from emotions. The bible tells who the accuser is and his followers aren't far behind him.

I guess every time we see the word spirit in the bible we must assume its the God the  HS?

If we take this approach then God the HS lives in our nostrils

Job 27:3 (KJV)
All the while my breath is in me, and the spirit of God is in my nostrils;

What do you read here?
Where is job saying the spirit of God is?
Is this God the HS?
This is not a angel
This is not God's word
Yet this is a spirit that lives in our nostril

Is this reasonable to ask?
Why do I have to be called a liar and a cult for reading the bible, quoting the bible and posting the bible?v By fellow Christians

What do you read here? life

Where is job saying the spirit of God is? up his nose like a rubber hose

Is this God the HS? in this instance doesn't sound like it and it wasn't stated that it is the HS

This is not a angel it is a life giving aspect and God does have angels do a lot of stuff for him

This is not God's wordIt most certainly is

Yet this is a spirit that lives in our nostril vapor comes out of my nostrils most of the time

Quote from: Bitter Sweet on Sat Jul 21, 2012 - 06:20:03

Quote from: howard on Sat Jul 21, 2012 - 06:08:21

Quote from: Bitter Sweet on Sat Jul 21, 2012 - 05:38:37

Quote from: chosenone on Sat Jul 21, 2012 - 05:23:27

I also find it troubling Howard, that those like you who have such strange ideas, (and we have one or two more here as well) always deny they are part of a cult, but that they alone have the truth, which is EXACTLY what those in cults say..

Are you implying that we are cultist? That's against the rules.

Part of a definition of cult; an instance of great veneration of a person, ideal, or thing, especially as manifested by a body of admirers: the physical fitness cult.

This can be said about the trinitarians too. There are people here that claim to be a part of this, they call themselves trinitarians. Do you see us calling ourselves anything? No, but you just implied we were in a cult. It would probably be best that you just don't use that word when judging members here.

The person is speaking out of emotions clouded judgement Worldly words.
Because of there position as Moderator my words and response must be contained
Bible Christians know who the cults are
The cults that I have ran across usually speak there own words, rarely quote bible and speak with emotions.

I agree, righteous judgement doesn't involve name calling or accusations, those come from emotions. The bible tells who the accuser is and his followers aren't far behind him.

It surely does. It's like being on a job where your coworker or boss alway lying or accusing to justify there presence or existence. I had to learn this that the Chrisitans I fellowship with are not always followers of Jesus.
We get so emotionally charge where the things we are trying to convey get lost in the wind.

Let the word of God do the talking
This is why I put a lesson Christian verses Christian and what happen to it I don't know
But this is a perfect example why I put it

Quote from: howard on Sat Jul 21, 2012 - 06:40:23

Quote from: Bitter Sweet on Sat Jul 21, 2012 - 06:20:03

Quote from: howard on Sat Jul 21, 2012 - 06:08:21

Quote from: Bitter Sweet on Sat Jul 21, 2012 - 05:38:37

Quote from: chosenone on Sat Jul 21, 2012 - 05:23:27

I also find it troubling Howard, that those like you who have such strange ideas, (and we have one or two more here as well) always deny they are part of a cult, but that they alone have the truth, which is EXACTLY what those in cults say..

Are you implying that we are cultist? That's against the rules.

Part of a definition of cult; an instance of great veneration of a person, ideal, or thing, especially as manifested by a body of admirers: the physical fitness cult.

This can be said about the trinitarians too. There are people here that claim to be a part of this, they call themselves trinitarians. Do you see us calling ourselves anything? No, but you just implied we were in a cult. It would probably be best that you just don't use that word when judging members here.

The person is speaking out of emotions clouded judgement Worldly words.
Because of there position as Moderator my words and response must be contained
Bible Christians know who the cults are
The cults that I have ran across usually speak there own words, rarely quote bible and speak with emotions.

I agree, righteous judgement doesn't involve name calling or accusations, those come from emotions. The bible tells who the accuser is and his followers aren't far behind him.

It surely does. It's like being on a job where your coworker or boss alway lying or accusing to justify there presence or existence. I had to learn this that the Chrisitans I fellowship with are not always followers of Jesus.
We get so emotionally charge where the things we are trying to convey get lost in the wind.

Let the word of God do the talking
This is why I put a lesson Christian verses Christian and what happen to it I don't know
But this is a perfect example why I put it

What I find most odd about being accused of being a part of a cult, is that we all just found each other here, nothing prior. We knew nothing about each other and the only thing we have in common is that we stick to God's word and don't follow man's doctrines.

Isaiah 65:5 Yet they say to each other, 'Don't come too close or you will defile me! I am holier than you!' These people are a stench in my nostrils, an acrid smell that never goes away.

Quote from: Bitter Sweet on Sat Jul 21, 2012 - 06:27:48
What do you read here? life

Where is job saying the spirit of God is? up his nose like a rubber hose

Is this God the HS? in this instance doesn't sound like it and it wasn't stated that it is the HS

This is not a angel it is a life giving aspect and God does have angels do a lot of stuff for him

This is not God's wordIt most certainly is

Yet this is a spirit that lives in our nostril vapor comes out of my nostrils most of the time [/color

Another name for breath is spirit

What goes into mans nostril breath or air, let's go to the creation to verify or prove it


Genesis 2:7 (KJV)
And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

Job understood that breath and spirit are the same

Job 33:4 (KJV)
The Spirit of God hath made me, and the breath of the Almighty hath given me life.

Quote from: howard on Sat Jul 21, 2012 - 04:00:01

Quote from: Lively Stone on Fri Jul 20, 2012 - 20:45:01

Quote from: howard on Fri Jul 20, 2012 - 18:43:08

Quote from: Lively Stone on Fri Jul 20, 2012 - 14:48:22

Quote from: howardlets read because we have millions of christians who don't understand that there are more than one HS is the bible

That is a lie. There is only One Holy Spirit.

Why are you calling God's word a lie?
You error not knowing God's word

It is written that the Lord makes his angels spirit

Pay attention now

Angels = spirits

Let's read where the angels are called holy

Mark 8:38 (KJV)
Whosoever therefore shall be ashamed of me and of my words in this adulterous and sinful generation; of him also shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he cometh in the glory of his Father with the holy angels.

Holy angels or holy spirits

On holy angel or one holy spirit

Hebrews 12:22 (KJV)
But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,

Who is the liar?

You believe a lot of lies, howard. Dismantling them all will be quite the task, as you approach the scriptures with a whole other paradigm. You need to study what angels are and what they do, and then do an extensive and reliable study on Holy Spirit. They are two different subjects, and your persistence in intertwining  them just obfuscates the issue, here.

LS

You are weigh over your head on this topic, everyone sees it. You believe in something you know nothing about. The Lord said rightly divide the Word , you call it intertwining that's funny.

What's funny is your use of 'weigh'!

I believe in someone I definitely know about. You, on the other hand are far too wordy about something you do not understand. You don;t have the ears to hear what the Lord God is telling you, and that is a SHAME.

QuoteThe bottom line is the trinity was started in the 4th century , history proves this
Your their of 3 in 1 or 1 in 3 again was left unproven

And as typical Christians do when they don't understand something they slide into name calling

Garbage, howard. You have chosen poorly to believe lies.

QuoteLet me leave you with this, God did not leave his answers or word to the Gentiles
I want to see how much you or anyone really believe Paul
Jesus left his word to Israel all the answers of God the Israelites have
The decision of the trinity is a Gentile doctrine
let's read the as my topics are loaded with

You use poor sentence formation, so I have no idea what you have just said.

QuoteRomans 3:1-2 (KJV)
What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision? [2] Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God.

Do you believe this?

I do

Who has the answers of God?
I know who don't,  those guys meeting in the 4th century concerning the trinity, Easter and Sunday worship don't.

Anyone who has the word of God and reads it has the answers to everything.

QuoteIf you are not convinced here is another of Paul's writings

Romans 9:3-4 (KJV)
For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh: [4] Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God , and the promises;

Who told the Gentiles to change and add things to the bible?
The Israelites did not teach a trinity, the trinity is not in the bible, God the HS is not in the bible

The Israelites had no knowledge of Holy Spirit, but the prophets, judges and kings (and individuals) whom Holy Spirit fell upon with power knew of Him, and knew of their Messiah.

Nothing has been changed or added to scripture.

Quote from: howard on Sat Jul 21, 2012 - 04:04:40

Quote from: Lively Stone on Sat Jul 21, 2012 - 01:50:19

Quote from: raggthyme7 on Sat Jul 21, 2012 - 01:19:56

Quote from: Lively Stone on Sat Jul 21, 2012 - 00:39:10

Quote from: raggthyme7 on Sat Jul 21, 2012 - 00:28:04

Lively, you baffle me. You say Jesus is one person, Holy Spirit is another. You say the reason both persons could not be on earth at once is because Jesus was confined to a body.  Huh?

Why does the second person of a trinity being in His body have anything at all to do with what the third person does?

What's so hard to understand there? Holy Spirit never filled the Earth until He was SENT after Jesus left---

Now that's more like it. 

Why couldn't both be on earth at one time? The answer is not because Jesus was confined to a body and unable to be everywhere at once.. (the one you first gave howard). The answer is that Jesus first had to be glorified! John 7:39

After His ascension He sent the promise of the Father, that power from on high, and through His own witnesses (filled with His Spirit) the world was convicted of sin, of righteousness and of judgment.

Yes, that is right. It is all God's plan from the beginning. It also is true that while Jesus was here ministering to the few, Holy Spirit was working through Him, fulfilling His purpose for that time, just as He was fulfilling His purpose in the OT. After Jesus ascended to the Father, Holy Spirit was sent to the world, to work in and through believers, as Christ, to this very day.

Where is this written?
If this was God's plan why did he leave his word written?

Read the word, howard. I am not about to spoon feed you. Are you totally ignorant of God's plan for the world? How do you think He works among us, and how to you figure people have been coming to Christ and performing the works of Christ for the last 2012 years?

QuoteWe are to read and do what is written in God's word
The HS job is to help us along in our walk and teachings
Go and read what the job of the HS

You have no power to understand or do what is written in the word without the third person of the Godhead working in and through you. Are you ignoring Him? If so, it is to your own detriment.

For me, Holy Spirit is God and He deserves all honour and respect due Him. It is because of Him I can know and love my Lord Jesus Christ, and understand what God tells me in His precious word.

You are out of your depth, howard, as usual. Go back to your 'dark sentences' you love so much. I love the light.

Quote from: howard on Sat Jul 21, 2012 - 04:13:53
Where is the HS? Pay close attention to who God sent to the beloved prophet Daniel.

Daniel 9:21-23 (KJV)
Yea, whiles I was speaking in prayer, even the man Gabriel, whom I had seen in the vision at the beginning, being caused to fly swiftly, touched me about the time of the evening oblation

[22] And he informed me , and talked with me, and said, O Daniel, I am now come forth to give thee skill and understanding.

[23] At the beginning of thy supplications the commandment came forth, and I am come to shew thee ; for thou art greatly beloved: therefore understand the matter, and consider the vision.

Who  was sent to show Daniel things?
Who was sent to give Daniel skills and understanding


Where is the HS?
Why is Gabriel doing the HS job?

Get into the New Testament, howie.

Holy Spirit was with the Father.

Gabriel was used to bring a message, which is his job. That was God's way, often during those days. He still does it today.

Quote from: howard on Sat Jul 21, 2012 - 04:27:03
Let's head to the last book in th bible and I will ask the same question  where is the HS?
Why is the angel or Angels doing his job?

Pay close attention to what we are about to read

Revelation 22:6,8-9 (KJV)
And he said unto me, These sayings are faithful and true: and the Lord God of the holy prophets sent his angel to shew unto his servants the things which must shortly be done.

8] And I John saw these things, and heard them . And when I had heard and seen, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel which shewed me these things.

9] Then saith he unto me, See thou do it not: for I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of this book: worship God.

Why is the angel mentioned and the God the HS not?
We have here the angels doing the job of God the HS

Angels are mighty creatures created specifically for these kinds of announcements. They don't do Holy Spirit's job. they do everything God sends them to do.

Angels are created beings. Holy Spirit is not a created being!

You mustn't forget that Jesus gave John the entire revelation. do you also forget that John's entire experience was by the power of Holy Spirit?

Quote from: howard on Sat Jul 21, 2012 - 04:55:23
I can't find my topic Christian verses Chrisitans in the theology section
I assume the Moderators deleted it.

This is a controversial topic this is why it is in this section a section created by the Admin for such subjects.

I expected the participation to be much higher because of the 1000's of trinity believers
What I did not expect was a few Unitarians.

What I expect is more bible verses and history to justify the trinity belief what I did not expect is no calling from someone who has done this before.

It goes with the territory

Where are the trinitarians come and defend your belief

Prove all things

You need to defend your belief, howard! You go against God in what you choose to believe. So far, you have proven you misunderstand scripture and have an immature understanding of God and who He is, how He works and what He has done.

Quote from: howard on Sat Jul 21, 2012 - 05:10:56
Genesis 1:2 (KJV)
And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

The Father is God and He sits on a throne

Jesus is God He sits on a throne

Obviously these two God's don't get there hands dirty because they are God, they give orders

Who is this spirit moving on the waters ?

So, you think God is perpetually sitting on a throne somewhere? You need to open up your heart and mind to who He really is. I find you to be disrespectful to God in what you have said in this post!

Does it completely fly over your head that the spirit is the Spirit of God? Holy Spirit was active in Creation!

Quote from: howard on Sat Jul 21, 2012 - 06:22:14
I guess every time we see the word spirit in the bible we must assume its the God the  HS?

No, you are expected to use your head with an open heart and read everything in context!

QuoteIf we take this approach then God the HS lives in our nostrils

Job 27:3 (KJV)
All the while my breath is in me, and the spirit of God is in my nostrils;

What do you read here?
Where is job saying the spirit of God is?
Is this God the HS?
This is not a angel
This is not God's word
Yet this is a spirit that lives in our nostril

And this is a childish and unknowledgeable way of handling differences. Typical of those who go against the grain of Christianity---they cherry pick a verse and use it to mock.

You are mocking God, howie---do you realize that?

QuoteIs this reasonable to ask?
Why do I have to be called a liar and a cult for reading the bible, quoting the bible and posting the bible?v By fellow Christians

You misinterpret what you read. No wonder you hold that the word of God is full of 'dark sentences'! You do not hear Holy Spirit trying to teach you the truth. You are the poster child for those who do not have ears to hear. It's truly SAD.

Take a look at this verse, howie:

Matthew 28:19
Therefore, go and make disciples of all the nations,[a] baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit.


Why would Jesus tell us to baptize people in the name of Holy Spirit? Do you think Jesus was commanding us to declare the existence and power of another god? Wouldn't that be a grave sin to do? Why would God the Father and God the Son be on equal footing with another?

Let me tell you why, howie. The Father and the Son and Holy Spirit are ONE.

Quote from: Lively Stone on Sat Jul 21, 2012 - 07:03:50

Quote from: howard on Sat Jul 21, 2012 - 04:04:40

Quote from: Lively Stone on Sat Jul 21, 2012 - 01:50:19

Quote from: raggthyme7 on Sat Jul 21, 2012 - 01:19:56

Quote from: Lively Stone on Sat Jul 21, 2012 - 00:39:10

Quote from: raggthyme7 on Sat Jul 21, 2012 - 00:28:04

Lively, you baffle me. You say Jesus is one person, Holy Spirit is another. You say the reason both persons could not be on earth at once is because Jesus was confined to a body.  Huh?

Why does the second person of a trinity being in His body have anything at all to do with what the third person does?

What's so hard to understand there? Holy Spirit never filled the Earth until He was SENT after Jesus left---

Now that's more like it. 

Why couldn't both be on earth at one time? The answer is not because Jesus was confined to a body and unable to be everywhere at once.. (the one you first gave howard). The answer is that Jesus first had to be glorified! John 7:39

After His ascension He sent the promise of the Father, that power from on high, and through His own witnesses (filled with His Spirit) the world was convicted of sin, of righteousness and of judgment.

Yes, that is right. It is all God's plan from the beginning. It also is true that while Jesus was here ministering to the few, Holy Spirit was working through Him, fulfilling His purpose for that time, just as He was fulfilling His purpose in the OT. After Jesus ascended to the Father, Holy Spirit was sent to the world, to work in and through believers, as Christ, to this very day.

Where is this written?
If this was God's plan why did he leave his word written?

Read the word, howard. I am not about to spoon feed you. Are you totally ignorant of God's plan for the world? How do you think He works among us, and how to you figure people have been coming to Christ and performing the works of Christ for the last 2012 years?

QuoteWe are to read and do what is written in God's word
The HS job is to help us along in our walk and teachings
Go and read what the job of the HS

You have no power to understand or do what is written in the word without the third person of the Godhead working in and through you. Are you ignoring Him? If so, it is to your own detriment.

For me, Holy Spirit is God and He deserves all honour and respect due Him. It is because of Him I can know and love my Lord Jesus Christ, and understand what God tells me in His precious word.

You are out of your depth, howard, as usual. Go back to your 'dark sentences' you love so much. I love the light.

Why do you continue to comment if you are so sure of yourself?

Let me be so bold to say what knowledge you do have you read I out of the book or your parents to your spiritual friend told you. It's obvious God the HS has not visited

The closes light to visit you is God's word

Psalm 119:105 (KJV)
Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.
I hope this don't fly over

Quote from: howard on Sat Jul 21, 2012 - 08:13:45

Why do you continue to comment if you are so sure of yourself?

You only wish I wasn't sure.

QuoteLet me be so bold to say what knowledge you do have you read I out of the book or your parents to your spiritual friend told you. It's obvious God the HS has not visited

Nice grammar, howie. Let me see if I can decipher your meaning...

OK, I see...

What knowledge I have is gained in all the ways that God provides:

God's holy word
Holy Spirit
Godly parentage
Spirit-led and Spirit-filled teachers, pastors and leaders
Spirit-led and Spirit-filled friends
Experience of God through obedience to the word

QuoteThe closes light to visit you is God's word

Whatever that means! 

QuotePsalm 119:105 (KJV)
Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.
I hope this don't fly over

It appears I have stymied you, dear howard, and this is all you can come up with. Where are your big guns? 

howard~

I would like for you to answer the questions below:

Matthew 28:19
Therefore, go and make disciples of all the nations,[a] baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit.


Why would Jesus tell us to baptize people in the name of Holy Spirit?

Do you think Jesus was commanding us to declare the existence and power of another god?

Wouldn't that be a grave sin to do?

If God the Father and God the Son are on equal footing with another, then who is Holy Spirit?

Why is He included in the holy echelon as stated plainly n this verse?


Now, that ought to keep you busy for a while. I'm going for a little visit with my grandson. I'll check in with you a bit later!

Quote from: Bitter Sweet on Sat Jul 21, 2012 - 06:44:36

Quote from: howard on Sat Jul 21, 2012 - 06:40:23

Quote from: Bitter Sweet on Sat Jul 21, 2012 - 06:20:03

Quote from: howard on Sat Jul 21, 2012 - 06:08:21

Quote from: Bitter Sweet on Sat Jul 21, 2012 - 05:38:37

Quote from: chosenone on Sat Jul 21, 2012 - 05:23:27

I also find it troubling Howard, that those like you who have such strange ideas, (and we have one or two more here as well) always deny they are part of a cult, but that they alone have the truth, which is EXACTLY what those in cults say..

Are you implying that we are cultist? That's against the rules.

Part of a definition of cult; an instance of great veneration of a person, ideal, or thing, especially as manifested by a body of admirers: the physical fitness cult.

This can be said about the trinitarians too. There are people here that claim to be a part of this, they call themselves trinitarians. Do you see us calling ourselves anything? No, but you just implied we were in a cult. It would probably be best that you just don't use that word when judging members here.

The person is speaking out of emotions clouded judgement Worldly words.
Because of there position as Moderator my words and response must be contained
Bible Christians know who the cults are
The cults that I have ran across usually speak there own words, rarely quote bible and speak with emotions.

I agree, righteous judgement doesn't involve name calling or accusations, those come from emotions. The bible tells who the accuser is and his followers aren't far behind him.

It surely does. It's like being on a job where your coworker or boss alway lying or accusing to justify there presence or existence. I had to learn this that the Chrisitans I fellowship with are not always followers of Jesus.
We get so emotionally charge where the things we are trying to convey get lost in the wind.

Let the word of God do the talking
This is why I put a lesson Christian verses Christian and what happen to it I don't know
But this is a perfect example why I put it

What I find most odd about being accused of being a part of a cult, is that we all just found each other here, nothing prior. We knew nothing about each other and the only thing we have in common is that we stick to God's word and don't follow man's doctrines.

Isaiah 65:5 Yet they say to each other, 'Don't come too close or you will defile me! I am holier than you!' These people are a stench in my nostrils, an acrid smell that never goes away.

Mormons teach that the spirit is the angel gabriel. Christians teach that the Holy spirit is God in them. What do you believe bittersweet?

Quote from: howard on Sat Jul 21, 2012 - 05:32:39

Quote from: chosenone on Sat Jul 21, 2012 - 05:26:43
The thought just hit me like a thunderbolt. What you are saying Howard, is in fact getting pretty close to the unforgivable sin of blaspheming the Holy Spirit
If I were you, I would do some repenting pretty quick.   If the Spirit was an angel, why would that sin be unforgivable?

What hit you is a burst of emotions

If I was using my own words then you might have a point
I'm using God's word and posting the verses so we all can rea it ourselves

What you are saying is folly. If I'm doing what you are saying prove it wrong
Take every verses I put and prove it wrong

No, a burst of reality! A burst of truth! God is in me throught His Holy Spirt, and the angel gabriel isnt in me and can only be in one place at one time.
I fear for you Howard.

Tell me, what church do you go to that teaches this? I have never ever heard of it being taught anywhere except the mormon church.

Quote from: chosenone on Sat Jul 21, 2012 - 09:14:32What do you believe bittersweet?

John 16:13 But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come. 

This isn't about our beliefs Chosenone, this is about the trinity being fact or fiction. I really don't mind if people believe in the trinity, I'm not going to judge them or stop being their friend because of it. It's what's in a person's heart that speaks the loudest, some come from loving spirits and some come from hateful spirits. If you don't agree with something, you don't have to respond in a negative manner.