Christian Forums

Quote from: Bitter Sweet on Sat Jul 21, 2012 - 10:40:30

Quote from: chosenone on Sat Jul 21, 2012 - 09:14:32What do you believe bittersweet?

John 16:13 But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come. 

This isn't about our beliefs Chosenone, this is about the trinity being fact or fiction. I really don't mind if people believe in the trinity, I'm not going to judge them or stop being their friend because of it. It's what's in a person's heart that speaks the loudest, some come from loving spirits and some come from hateful spirits. If you don't agree with something, you don't have to respond in a negative manner.

This is what the Bible says bittersweet and what the nicene creed says. Do you believe it?

We believe in the Holy Spirit, (John 14: 26)
Lord, (Acts 5: 3-4)
Giver of Life, (Genesis 1: 2)
Who proceeds from the Father [and the Son]; (John 15: 26)
Who with the Father and the Son together is worshiped and glorified; (Matthew 3: 16-17)
Who spoke through the prophets. (1 Samuel 19: 20; Ezekiel 11: 5,13)

Quote from: chosenone on Sat Jul 21, 2012 - 10:47:48

Quote from: Bitter Sweet on Sat Jul 21, 2012 - 10:40:30

Quote from: chosenone on Sat Jul 21, 2012 - 09:14:32What do you believe bittersweet?

John 16:13 But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come. 

This isn't about our beliefs Chosenone, this is about the trinity being fact or fiction. I really don't mind if people believe in the trinity, I'm not going to judge them or stop being their friend because of it. It's what's in a person's heart that speaks the loudest, some come from loving spirits and some come from hateful spirits. If you don't agree with something, you don't have to respond in a negative manner.

This is what the Bible says bittersweet and what the nicene creed says. Do you believe it?

We believe in the Holy Spirit, (John 14: 26)
Lord, (Acts 5: 3-4)
Giver of Life, (Genesis 1: 2)
Who proceeds from the Father [and the Son]; (John 15: 26)
Who with the Father and the Son together is worshiped and glorified; (Matthew 3: 16-17)
Who spoke through the prophets. (1 Samuel 19: 20; Ezekiel 11: 5,13)

I believe everything in the bible, not just the verses you posted. I've never heard of the nicene creed until this thread and I haven't seen that mentioned in the bible. The bible warns us not to follow doctrines of men, this is a man-made creed, correct?

This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me. But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men. (Matthew 15:8-9)

2 Timothy 4:3 For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear.

Sorry I am not willing to say what you want to hear.

The Nicene creed is a collection of verses and statements straight from the Bible and is used in this forums rules to say what members here need to believe. Look at it in the rules. Its the basis of most churches beliefs. I hope that you don't agree with Howard because he agrees with the JW's and that isn't good.

The trouble is that we do need to be sure of what we believe, otherwise we can get blown around by every weird doctrine and seriously wrong teaching that a few misguided people come here with.  How can we be any good or be strong in our faith, if we don't even know what it is we believe in? How can we stand up for the truth of God the Father and His Son and His Holy Spirit if we have no idea what that truth is?I realise that a lot of it is that you have never had any good teaching anywhwere, so you cant recognise when something of someone is in serious and dangerous error. Thats the danger of not being in a body of Bible believing Christians who can keep us all on track, and stop us going off course.

eph 4v14
Then we will no longer be infants, tossed back and forth by the waves, and blown here and there by every wind of teaching and by the cunning and craftiness of people in their deceitful scheming.

I just believe in the entire bible, nothing more and nothing less.

I've only belonged to the Orthodox church Chosenone, I'm not a church hopper and never joined a different church because I didn't like the one I was attending so I'm not sure why you posted that verse. If I follow anyone's teachings they are my husbands because the bible tells women to ask their husbands if they have any questions. Just last night he told me if anyone asks (because a pastor and wife invited me to their church) to tell them I am a renegade Orthodox.

Hi howard could you please explain this verse below in regards to John being filled with the Holy Spirit even from the womb.Or do you believe that he was filled with a angel?

Luke 1

11 Then an angel of the Lord appeared to him, standing on the right side of the altar of incense. 12 And when Zacharias saw him, he was troubled, and fear fell upon him.

13 But the angel said to him, "Do not be afraid, Zacharias, for your prayer is heard; and your wife Elizabeth will bear you a son, and you shall call his name John. 14 And you will have joy and gladness, and many will rejoice at his birth. 15 For he will be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink. He will also be filled with the Holy Spirit, even from his mother's womb.

Howard did Jesus breathe out a Angel here or was he imparting himself here?

John

The Apostles Commissioned

19 Then, the same day at evening, being the first day of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled,[c] for fear of the Jews, Jesus came and stood in the midst, and said to them, "Peace be with you." 20 When He had said this, He showed them His hands and His side. Then the disciples were glad when they saw the Lord.

21 So Jesus said to them again, "Peace to you! As the Father has sent Me, I also send you." 22 And when He had said this, He breathed on them, and said to them, "Receive the Holy Spirit. 23 If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven them; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained."





Are you saying they where filled with a angel from Jesus Christ?

Quote from: Lively Stone on Sat Jul 21, 2012 - 07:06:46

Quote from: howard on Sat Jul 21, 2012 - 04:13:53
Where is the HS? Pay close attention to who God sent to the beloved prophet Daniel.

Daniel 9:21-23 (KJV)
Yea, whiles I was speaking in prayer, even the man Gabriel, whom I had seen in the vision at the beginning, being caused to fly swiftly, touched me about the time of the evening oblation

[22] And he informed me , and talked with me, and said, O Daniel, I am now come forth to give thee skill and understanding.

[23] At the beginning of thy supplications the commandment came forth, and I am come to shew thee ; for thou art greatly beloved: therefore understand the matter, and consider the vision.

Who  was sent to show Daniel things?
Who was sent to give Daniel skills and understanding


Where is the HS?
Why is Gabriel doing the HS job?

Get into the New Testament, howie.

Holy Spirit was with the Father.

Gabriel was used to bring a message, which is his job. That was God's way, often during those days. He still does it today.

same job function LS you just admitted it

lets look at gabriel bringing good news in the NT

Luke 1

26 And in the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent from God unto a city of Galilee, named Nazareth,

27 To a virgin espoused to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David; and the virgin's name was Mary.

28 And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, thou that art highly favoured, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.

29 And when she saw him, she was troubled at his saying, and cast in her mind what manner of salutation this should be.

30 And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God.

31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name Jesus.

32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:

33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.

good news don't you think! 

Quote from: Lively Stone on Sat Jul 21, 2012 - 06:53:57

Quote from: howard on Sat Jul 21, 2012 - 04:00:01

Quote from: Lively Stone on Fri Jul 20, 2012 - 20:45:01

Quote from: howard on Fri Jul 20, 2012 - 18:43:08

Quote from: Lively Stone on Fri Jul 20, 2012 - 14:48:22

Quote from: howardlets read because we have millions of christians who don't understand that there are more than one HS is the bible

That is a lie. There is only One Holy Spirit.

Why are you calling God's word a lie?
You error not knowing God's word

It is written that the Lord makes his angels spirit

Pay attention now

Angels = spirits

Let's read where the angels are called holy

Mark 8:38 (KJV)
Whosoever therefore shall be ashamed of me and of my words in this adulterous and sinful generation; of him also shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he cometh in the glory of his Father with the holy angels.

Holy angels or holy spirits

On holy angel or one holy spirit

Hebrews 12:22 (KJV)
But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,

Who is the liar?

You believe a lot of lies, howard. Dismantling them all will be quite the task, as you approach the scriptures with a whole other paradigm. You need to study what angels are and what they do, and then do an extensive and reliable study on Holy Spirit. They are two different subjects, and your persistence in intertwining  them just obfuscates the issue, here.

LS

You are weigh over your head on this topic, everyone sees it. You believe in something you know nothing about. The Lord said rightly divide the Word , you call it intertwining that's funny.

What's funny is your use of 'weigh'!

I believe in someone I definitely know about. You, on the other hand are far too wordy about something you do not understand. You don;t have the ears to hear what the Lord God is telling you, and that is a SHAME.

QuoteThe bottom line is the trinity was started in the 4th century , history proves this
Your their of 3 in 1 or 1 in 3 again was left unproven

And as typical Christians do when they don't understand something they slide into name calling

Garbage, howard. You have chosen poorly to believe lies.

QuoteLet me leave you with this, God did not leave his answers or word to the Gentiles
I want to see how much you or anyone really believe Paul
Jesus left his word to Israel all the answers of God the Israelites have
The decision of the trinity is a Gentile doctrine
let's read the as my topics are loaded with

You use poor sentence formation, so I have no idea what you have just said.

QuoteRomans 3:1-2 (KJV)
What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision? [2] Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God.

Do you believe this?

I do

Who has the answers of God?
I know who don't,  those guys meeting in the 4th century concerning the trinity, Easter and Sunday worship don't.

Anyone who has the word of God and reads it has the answers to everything.

QuoteIf you are not convinced here is another of Paul's writings

Romans 9:3-4 (KJV)
For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh: [4] Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God , and the promises;

Who told the Gentiles to change and add things to the bible?
The Israelites did not teach a trinity, the trinity is not in the bible, God the HS is not in the bible

The Israelites had no knowledge of Holy Spirit, but the prophets, judges and kings (and individuals) whom Holy Spirit fell upon with power knew of Him, and knew of their Messiah.

Nothing has been changed or added to scripture.

actually LS

half the time I am at work fellowshipping with you all on my phone so if my grammar or sentence structure is poor overlook it.
you understand what I am saying so put emphasis on the post and not the grammar.

sorry to bust your bubble again the HS was in the wilderness with the israelites as Jesus was there also

     Isaiah 63:9-11

9 In all their affliction he was afflicted, and the angel of his presence saved them: in his love and in his pity he redeemed them; and he bare them, and carried them all the days of old.

10 But they rebelled, and vexed his holy Spirit: therefore he was turned to be their enemy, and he fought against them.

11 Then he remembered the days of old, Moses, and his people, saying, Where is he that brought them up out of the sea with the shepherd of his flock? where is he that put his holy Spirit within him?

as far as the name calling that is between you and God.
the emotion i asked in my first post to leave at the door. 

Quote from: Lively Stone on Sat Jul 21, 2012 - 07:10:10

Quote from: howard on Sat Jul 21, 2012 - 04:27:03
Let's head to the last book in th bible and I will ask the same question  where is the HS?
Why is the angel or Angels doing his job?

Pay close attention to what we are about to read

Revelation 22:6,8-9 (KJV)
And he said unto me, These sayings are faithful and true: and the Lord God of the holy prophets sent his angel to shew unto his servants the things which must shortly be done.

8] And I John saw these things, and heard them . And when I had heard and seen, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel which shewed me these things.

9] Then saith he unto me, See thou do it not: for I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of this book: worship God.

Why is the angel mentioned and the God the HS not?
We have here the angels doing the job of God the HS

Angels are mighty creatures created specifically for these kinds of announcements. They don't do Holy Spirit's job. they do everything God sends them to do.

Angels are created beings. Holy Spirit is not a created being!

You mustn't forget that Jesus gave John the entire revelation. do you also forget that John's entire experience was by the power of Holy Spirit?

lets read something here and I hope you and others can see what is said

Revelation 10:6
And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer:

there is only two that has not been created those two are
The Father
Jesus

everything in heaven , earth and sea was created.

Colossians 1:15-17

15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.


all thing in heaven includes the HS!!!

lets read the bible

these things are NEVER brought up

Quote from: chosenone on Sat Jul 21, 2012 - 09:14:32

Quote from: Bitter Sweet on Sat Jul 21, 2012 - 06:44:36

Quote from: howard on Sat Jul 21, 2012 - 06:40:23

Quote from: Bitter Sweet on Sat Jul 21, 2012 - 06:20:03

Quote from: howard on Sat Jul 21, 2012 - 06:08:21

Quote from: Bitter Sweet on Sat Jul 21, 2012 - 05:38:37

Quote from: chosenone on Sat Jul 21, 2012 - 05:23:27

I also find it troubling Howard, that those like you who have such strange ideas, (and we have one or two more here as well) always deny they are part of a cult, but that they alone have the truth, which is EXACTLY what those in cults say..

Are you implying that we are cultist? That's against the rules.

Part of a definition of cult; an instance of great veneration of a person, ideal, or thing, especially as manifested by a body of admirers: the physical fitness cult.

This can be said about the trinitarians too. There are people here that claim to be a part of this, they call themselves trinitarians. Do you see us calling ourselves anything? No, but you just implied we were in a cult. It would probably be best that you just don't use that word when judging members here.

The person is speaking out of emotions clouded judgement Worldly words.
Because of there position as Moderator my words and response must be contained
Bible Christians know who the cults are
The cults that I have ran across usually speak there own words, rarely quote bible and speak with emotions.

I agree, righteous judgement doesn't involve name calling or accusations, those come from emotions. The bible tells who the accuser is and his followers aren't far behind him.

It surely does. It's like being on a job where your coworker or boss alway lying or accusing to justify there presence or existence. I had to learn this that the Chrisitans I fellowship with are not always followers of Jesus.
We get so emotionally charge where the things we are trying to convey get lost in the wind.

Let the word of God do the talking
This is why I put a lesson Christian verses Christian and what happen to it I don't know
But this is a perfect example why I put it

What I find most odd about being accused of being a part of a cult, is that we all just found each other here, nothing prior. We knew nothing about each other and the only thing we have in common is that we stick to God's word and don't follow man's doctrines.

Isaiah 65:5 Yet they say to each other, 'Don't come too close or you will defile me! I am holier than you!' These people are a stench in my nostrils, an acrid smell that never goes away.

Mormons teach that the spirit is the angel gabriel. Christians teach that the Holy spirit is God in them. What do you believe bittersweet?

who cares what the mormon teach that's there problem with God.

Quote from: bemark on Sat Jul 21, 2012 - 21:55:41
Howard did Jesus breathe out a Angel here or was he imparting himself here?

John

The Apostles Commissioned

19 Then, the same day at evening, being the first day of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled,[c] for fear of the Jews, Jesus came and stood in the midst, and said to them, "Peace be with you." 20 When He had said this, He showed them His hands and His side. Then the disciples were glad when they saw the Lord.

21 So Jesus said to them again, "Peace to you! As the Father has sent Me, I also send you." 22 And when He had said this, He breathed on them, and said to them, "Receive the Holy Spirit. 23 If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven them; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained."

Are you saying they where filled with a angel from Jesus Christ?

bemark

you need to read the topic

the Holy Spirit comes in many forms

the answer is no.

why should I answer anything else yo say when you have not read my posts.

watch this Bemark

lets see if this holy spirit fits that verse

John 6:63
It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

now what forgives sins?

let me ask you who forgive sins

the Father
Jesus
or the holy spirit

which one? 

whose name?

to whom do you pray forgiveness to?

I'm making it very simple for you

Luke 11:2
And he said unto them, When ye pray, say, Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done, as in heaven, so in earth.

Acts 2:38
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Quote from: Lively Stone on Sat Jul 21, 2012 - 07:10:10

Quote from: howard on Sat Jul 21, 2012 - 04:27:03
Let's head to the last book in th bible and I will ask the same question  where is the HS?
Why is the angel or Angels doing his job?

Pay close attention to what we are about to read

Revelation 22:6,8-9 (KJV)
And he said unto me, These sayings are faithful and true: and the Lord God of the holy prophets sent his angel to shew unto his servants the things which must shortly be done.

8] And I John saw these things, and heard them . And when I had heard and seen, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel which shewed me these things.

9] Then saith he unto me, See thou do it not: for I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of this book: worship God.

Why is the angel mentioned and the God the HS not?
We have here the angels doing the job of God the HS

Angels are mighty creatures created specifically for these kinds of announcements. They don't do Holy Spirit's job. they do everything God sends them to do.

Angels are created beings. Holy Spirit is not a created being!

You mustn't forget that Jesus gave John the entire revelation. do you also forget that John's entire experience was by the power of Holy Spirit?

lets read how John got the revelation of Jesus its in the first chapter and first verse of relevation you missed it, I understand

Revelation 1
King James Version (KJV)

1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

2 Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw.

1 John 5:7
For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

Luke 1:19
And the angel answering said unto him, I am Gabriel, that stand in the presence of God; and am sent to speak unto thee, and to shew thee these glad tidings.

Quote from: Lively Stone on Sat Jul 21, 2012 - 09:01:13
howard~

I would like for you to answer the questions below:

Matthew 28:19
Therefore, go and make disciples of all the nations,[a] baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit.


Why would Jesus tell us to baptize people in the name of Holy Spirit?

Do you think Jesus was commanding us to declare the existence and power of another god?

Wouldn't that be a grave sin to do?

If God the Father and God the Son are on equal footing with another, then who is Holy Spirit?

Why is He included in the holy echelon as stated plainly n this verse?


Now, that ought to keep you busy for a while. I'm going for a little visit with my grandson. I'll check in with you a bit later!

actually this is very simple stuff LS
I'm surprise you asked it but its good that you did so everyone can see

the Father is a title
the son is a title
the HS is a title

Jesus is a name
now lets read what Peter said and lets understand how we are to baptize

Acts 2:38
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

peter tells us that we are to baptized in the name of Jesus

lets see what the HS order were from JESUS

John 15v 26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:

that me is Jesus

John 14

15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you

26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you

the HS is coming in the name of Jesus


John 16v13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

this HS can only speak what he has heard which is what he has been told to say.

this HS don't have the qualification as the God Jesus and God the Father, he can;t even speak his own words!

and you just learned we are baptized under the name of JESUS, not a title father, son and hs.

Quote from: chosenone on Sat Jul 21, 2012 - 09:26:10

Quote from: howard on Sat Jul 21, 2012 - 05:32:39

Quote from: chosenone on Sat Jul 21, 2012 - 05:26:43
The thought just hit me like a thunderbolt. What you are saying Howard, is in fact getting pretty close to the unforgivable sin of blaspheming the Holy Spirit
If I were you, I would do some repenting pretty quick.   If the Spirit was an angel, why would that sin be unforgivable?

What hit you is a burst of emotions

If I was using my own words then you might have a point
I'm using God's word and posting the verses so we all can read it ourselves

What you are saying is folly. If I'm doing what you are saying prove it wrong
Take every verses I put and prove it wrong

No, a burst of reality! A burst of truth! God is in me throught His Holy Spirt, and the angel gabriel isnt in me and can only be in one place at one time.
I fear for you Howard.

don't fear for me

i never said Gabriel is in you, not once, this is emotions you display

let me clear it again and ask in question form

is this HS in you

John 6:63
It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

how about this one hear Chosen one?

Job 27:3
All the while my breath is in me, and the spirit of God is in my nostrils;

you might not have God's word, but you most definitely has his spirit/breath

listen again chosen one, you cant have the spirit Gabriel in you, but you can have God's spirit the word in you or his spirit the breath in you or his spirit the thoughts in you, or his spirit the strength in you.

did I go over your head again?

if not lets move on from silly questions to mature questions?
 

Quote from: bemark on Sat Jul 21, 2012 - 21:31:59
Hi howard could you please explain this verse below in regards to John being filled with the Holy Spirit even from the womb.Or do you believe that he was filled with a angel?

Luke 1

11 Then an angel of the Lord appeared to him, standing on the right side of the altar of incense. 12 And when Zacharias saw him, he was troubled, and fear fell upon him.

13 But the angel said to him, "Do not be afraid, Zacharias, for your prayer is heard; and your wife Elizabeth will bear you a son, and you shall call his name John. 14 And you will have joy and gladness, and many will rejoice at his birth. 15 For he will be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink. He will also be filled with the Holy Spirit, even from his mother's womb.

simple Brother

John 6:63
It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

Now show me where John the Baptist was taught by anyone even God the HS or even a angel?

what left?

John 6:63
It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

God words are Holy and we read where his words are spirit.

example

Hebrews 10:16
This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;

it can be done and was done.

Quote from: chosenone on Sat Jul 21, 2012 - 09:14:32

Quote from: Bitter Sweet on Sat Jul 21, 2012 - 06:44:36

Quote from: howard on Sat Jul 21, 2012 - 06:40:23

Quote from: Bitter Sweet on Sat Jul 21, 2012 - 06:20:03

Quote from: howard on Sat Jul 21, 2012 - 06:08:21

Quote from: Bitter Sweet on Sat Jul 21, 2012 - 05:38:37

Quote from: chosenone on Sat Jul 21, 2012 - 05:23:27

I also find it troubling Howard, that those like you who have such strange ideas, (and we have one or two more here as well) always deny they are part of a cult, but that they alone have the truth, which is EXACTLY what those in cults say..

Are you implying that we are cultist? That's against the rules.

Part of a definition of cult; an instance of great veneration of a person, ideal, or thing, especially as manifested by a body of admirers: the physical fitness cult.

This can be said about the trinitarians too. There are people here that claim to be a part of this, they call themselves trinitarians. Do you see us calling ourselves anything? No, but you just implied we were in a cult. It would probably be best that you just don't use that word when judging members here.

The person is speaking out of emotions clouded judgement Worldly words.
Because of there position as Moderator my words and response must be contained
Bible Christians know who the cults are
The cults that I have ran across usually speak there own words, rarely quote bible and speak with emotions.

I agree, righteous judgement doesn't involve name calling or accusations, those come from emotions. The bible tells who the accuser is and his followers aren't far behind him.

It surely does. It's like being on a job where your coworker or boss alway lying or accusing to justify there presence or existence. I had to learn this that the Chrisitans I fellowship with are not always followers of Jesus.
We get so emotionally charge where the things we are trying to convey get lost in the wind.

Let the word of God do the talking
This is why I put a lesson Christian verses Christian and what happen to it I don't know
But this is a perfect example why I put it

What I find most odd about being accused of being a part of a cult, is that we all just found each other here, nothing prior. We knew nothing about each other and the only thing we have in common is that we stick to God's word and don't follow man's doctrines.

Isaiah 65:5 Yet they say to each other, 'Don't come too close or you will defile me! I am holier than you!' These people are a stench in my nostrils, an acrid smell that never goes away.

Mormons teach that the spirit is the angel gabriel. Christians teach that the Holy spirit is God in them. What do you believe bittersweet?

the bible teach this about a angel which Gabriel is

Hebrews 1:

7 And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.

13 But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool?

14 Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?


Gabriel is Holy
Gabriel is a spirit
Gabriel is sent forth

Gabriel is a Holy Spirit sent forth

guess what people if the spirit is not holy what are they called EVIL SPIRITS

i betcha some here don't have a problem excepting this spirit


Luke 8:2
And certain women, which had been healed of evil spirits and infirmities, Mary called Magdalene, out of whom went seven devils,

Acts 19:12
So that from his body were brought unto the sick handkerchiefs or aprons, and the diseases departed from them, and the evil spirits went out of them.

Acts 19:13
Then certain of the vagabond Jews, exorcists, took upon them to call over them which had evil spirits the name of the LORD Jesus, saying, We adjure you by Jesus whom Paul preacheth.

wait a minute these evil spirits are plural (many)

lets look at the singular

Results
Judges 9:23
Then God sent an evil spirit between Abimelech and the men of Shechem; and the men of Shechem dealt treacherously with Abimelech:

1 Samuel 16:
14 But the Spirit of the LORD departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the LORD troubled him.
15 And Saul's servants said unto him, Behold now, an evil spirit from God troubleth thee.
16 Let our lord now command thy servants, which are before thee, to seek out a man, who is a cunning player on an harp: and it shall come to pass, when the evil spirit from God is upon thee, that he shall play with his hand, and thou shalt be well.
23 And it came to pass, when the evil spirit from God was upon Saul, that David took an harp, and played with his hand: so Saul was refreshed, and was well, and the evil spirit departed from him.

1 Samuel 18:10
And it came to pass on the morrow, that the evil spirit from God came upon Saul, and he prophesied in the midst of the house: and David played

notice how it becomes the evil spirit

who is this 'the evil spirit'

Quote from: howard on Sat Jun 30, 2012 - 07:03:19
Hi GC

I've been gone for a minute doing battle against some Unitarians on another site. Anyway I have a lesson here that I want you all to weigh in on.

I know what the statement of faith is this is why I put it here. I would like it in the theology section but here has to suffice.

If the Moderators can please put it there.

Please weigh in on this and please be polite and christian like.

peace in Jesus

   

here is my first post and the plea that went out concerning this subject.

the HS comes in may forms which I have put numerous times

the angels are spirits
the word is spirit
the breath is spirit
the thoughts is spirit
the strength is spirit

all this is written

yet we have folks who can't open up there understanding and see this.

that's ok

because those verse sand scriptures will always be there for them to one day understand.

thats all back to  the fellowshipping!     

Quote from: howard on Sun Jul 22, 2012 - 16:12:13

Quote from: chosenone on Sat Jul 21, 2012 - 09:14:32

Quote from: Bitter Sweet on Sat Jul 21, 2012 - 06:44:36

Quote from: howard on Sat Jul 21, 2012 - 06:40:23

Quote from: Bitter Sweet on Sat Jul 21, 2012 - 06:20:03

Quote from: howard on Sat Jul 21, 2012 - 06:08:21

Quote from: Bitter Sweet on Sat Jul 21, 2012 - 05:38:37

Quote from: chosenone on Sat Jul 21, 2012 - 05:23:27

I also find it troubling Howard, that those like you who have such strange ideas, (and we have one or two more here as well) always deny they are part of a cult, but that they alone have the truth, which is EXACTLY what those in cults say..

Are you implying that we are cultist? That's against the rules.

Part of a definition of cult; an instance of great veneration of a person, ideal, or thing, especially as manifested by a body of admirers: the physical fitness cult.

This can be said about the trinitarians too. There are people here that claim to be a part of this, they call themselves trinitarians. Do you see us calling ourselves anything? No, but you just implied we were in a cult. It would probably be best that you just don't use that word when judging members here.

The person is speaking out of emotions clouded judgement Worldly words.
Because of there position as Moderator my words and response must be contained
Bible Christians know who the cults are
The cults that I have ran across usually speak there own words, rarely quote bible and speak with emotions.

I agree, righteous judgement doesn't involve name calling or accusations, those come from emotions. The bible tells who the accuser is and his followers aren't far behind him.

It surely does. It's like being on a job where your coworker or boss alway lying or accusing to justify there presence or existence. I had to learn this that the Chrisitans I fellowship with are not always followers of Jesus.
We get so emotionally charge where the things we are trying to convey get lost in the wind.

Let the word of God do the talking
This is why I put a lesson Christian verses Christian and what happen to it I don't know
But this is a perfect example why I put it

What I find most odd about being accused of being a part of a cult, is that we all just found each other here, nothing prior. We knew nothing about each other and the only thing we have in common is that we stick to God's word and don't follow man's doctrines.

Isaiah 65:5 Yet they say to each other, 'Don't come too close or you will defile me! I am holier than you!' These people are a stench in my nostrils, an acrid smell that never goes away.

Mormons teach that the spirit is the angel gabriel. Christians teach that the Holy spirit is God in them. What do you believe bittersweet?

the bible teach this about a angel which Gabriel is

Hebrews 1:

7 And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.

13 But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool?

14 Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?


Gabriel is Holy
Gabriel is a spirit
Gabriel is sent forth

Gabriel is a Holy Spirit sent forth

Excellent! Mwhhahaha, God's Holy words

Jesus and the Father created everything, everything. keep this in mind. they created every thing in heaven, on earth and in the sea.

keep in mind the words in heaven.

Revelation 4:11
Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.

Revelation 10
5 And the angel which I saw stand upon the sea and upon the earth lifted up his hand to heaven,

6 And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer:

Colossians 1:15-17
King James Version (KJV)

15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

this says a lot, a lot!

guess what people I did not write this, those verse has always been in your bible, the RCC did not understand them, probably did not look at them, most likely did not know they where written in the bible like the people of today.   

it says what it means
do not come back saying it says soemthing else, it don't

I think we all can agree that the Father is God and Jesus is God
I think we all know enough to know and understand that these two are not created

but when it says everything in heaven was created who does this include?

who else resides in heaven with Jesus and the Father?

lets open our understanding   

lets read the bible and get away from mans meetings and doctrines.

lets try the spirit!!!

let fellowship and grow in grace and knowledge.

most people don't know this verse exist and that we have to grow in grace, yes even grace and knowledge of God

2 Peter 3:18
But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen.

 




reading God's word and discussing it is the best thing in the world.

Quote from: howard on Sun Jul 22, 2012 - 15:00:55

Quote from: Lively Stone on Sat Jul 21, 2012 - 07:06:46

Quote from: howard on Sat Jul 21, 2012 - 04:13:53
Where is the HS? Pay close attention to who God sent to the beloved prophet Daniel.

Daniel 9:21-23 (KJV)
Yea, whiles I was speaking in prayer, even the man Gabriel, whom I had seen in the vision at the beginning, being caused to fly swiftly, touched me about the time of the evening oblation

[22] And he informed me , and talked with me, and said, O Daniel, I am now come forth to give thee skill and understanding.

[23] At the beginning of thy supplications the commandment came forth, and I am come to shew thee ; for thou art greatly beloved: therefore understand the matter, and consider the vision.

Who  was sent to show Daniel things?
Who was sent to give Daniel skills and understanding


Where is the HS?
Why is Gabriel doing the HS job?

Get into the New Testament, howie.

Holy Spirit was with the Father.

Gabriel was used to bring a message, which is his job. That was God's way, often during those days. He still does it today.

same job function LS you just admitted it

lets look at gabriel bringing good news in the NT

Luke 1

26 And in the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent from God unto a city of Galilee, named Nazareth,

27 To a virgin espoused to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David; and the virgin's name was Mary.

28 And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, thou that art highly favoured, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.

29 And when she saw him, she was troubled at his saying, and cast in her mind what manner of salutation this should be.

30 And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God.

31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name Jesus.

32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:

33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.

good news don't you think!

Why would any right-thinking Christian deny that angels are used to deliver messages? After all, 'angel' means 'messenger'!!!

Anything an angel or Holy Spirit would say to us would be from God, and that would be perfect, and good---even if it is bad news.

Gabriel is an archangel. Holy Spirit is the Spirit of Christ, the author and revealer of the scriptures and of all truth.

Get into the word, howie, and study it---prayerfully, allowing Holy Spirit to open your heart and mind to His truth. Until you do, you are just going to continue spinning your squeaky wheels.

Quote from: howard on Sun Jul 22, 2012 - 15:14:53

Quote from: Lively Stone on Sat Jul 21, 2012 - 07:10:10

Quote from: howard on Sat Jul 21, 2012 - 04:27:03
Let's head to the last book in th bible and I will ask the same question  where is the HS?
Why is the angel or Angels doing his job?

Pay close attention to what we are about to read

Revelation 22:6,8-9 (KJV)
And he said unto me, These sayings are faithful and true: and the Lord God of the holy prophets sent his angel to shew unto his servants the things which must shortly be done.

8] And I John saw these things, and heard them . And when I had heard and seen, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel which shewed me these things.

9] Then saith he unto me, See thou do it not: for I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of this book: worship God.

Why is the angel mentioned and the God the HS not?
We have here the angels doing the job of God the HS

Angels are mighty creatures created specifically for these kinds of announcements. They don't do Holy Spirit's job. they do everything God sends them to do.

Angels are created beings. Holy Spirit is not a created being!

You mustn't forget that Jesus gave John the entire revelation. do you also forget that John's entire experience was by the power of Holy Spirit?

lets read something here and I hope you and others can see what is said

Revelation 10:6
And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer:

there is only two that has not been created those two are
The Father
Jesus

everything in heaven , earth and sea was created.

Colossians 1:15-17

15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.


all thing in heaven includes the HS!!!

lets read the bible

these things are NEVER brought up

In your blindness, you negate Holy Spirit as God, who is uncreated. God have mercy on you.

Quote from: howard on Sun Jul 22, 2012 - 15:48:14

Quote from: Lively Stone on Sat Jul 21, 2012 - 09:01:13
howard~

I would like for you to answer the questions below:

Matthew 28:19
Therefore, go and make disciples of all the nations,[a] baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit.


Why would Jesus tell us to baptize people in the name of Holy Spirit?

Do you think Jesus was commanding us to declare the existence and power of another god?

Wouldn't that be a grave sin to do?

If God the Father and God the Son are on equal footing with another, then who is Holy Spirit?

Why is He included in the holy echelon as stated plainly n this verse?


Now, that ought to keep you busy for a while. I'm going for a little visit with my grandson. I'll check in with you a bit later!

actually this is very simple stuff LS
I'm surprise you asked it but its good that you did so everyone can see

the Father is a title
the son is a title
the HS is a title

Jesus is a name
now lets read what Peter said and lets understand how we are to baptize

Acts 2:38
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

peter tells us that we are to baptized in the name of Jesus

lets see what the HS order were from JESUS

John 15v 26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:

that me is Jesus

John 14

15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you

26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you

the HS is coming in the name of Jesus


John 16v13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

this HS can only speak what he has heard which is what he has been told to say.

this HS don't have the qualification as the God Jesus and God the Father, he can;t even speak his own words!

and you just learned we are baptized under the name of JESUS, not a title father, son and hs.

This is pure foolishness. We are to baptize people in the name of the Father, and the name of the Son, Jesus and in the name of Holy Spirit. Holy Spirit has spoken every word you read in the scriptures! Holy Spirit speaks to us the truth about the Saviour or you could never know Jesus Christ.

Get a clue.

Quote from: howard on Sun Jul 22, 2012 - 15:32:55

lets read how John got the revelation of Jesus its in the first chapter and first verse of relevation you missed it, I understand

Revelation 1
King James Version (KJV)

1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

2 Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw.

1 John 5:7
For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

I am stunned that you actually post scripture attesting to the Trinity, and completely ignore its importance!!! John's entire revelation was by the power of Holy Spirit.

QuoteLuke 1:19
And the angel answering said unto him, I am Gabriel, that stand in the presence of God; and am sent to speak unto thee, and to shew thee these glad tidings.

What does it say to you that Gabriel stands in the presence of God? Billions of angels stand in the same place. Gabriel is just one.

Quote from: howard on Sun Jul 22, 2012 - 16:12:13


the bible teach this about a angel which Gabriel is

Hebrews 1:

7 And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.

13 But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool?

14 Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?


Gabriel is Holy
Gabriel is a spirit
Gabriel is sent forth

Gabriel is a Holy Spirit sent forth

Angels are spiritual CREATURES, and holy and are sent.

Holy Spirit is not a spiritual CREATURE.

I find your stubbornness and mocking laughter completely out of line.

Quote from: Lively Stone on Sun Jul 22, 2012 - 17:27:08

Quote from: howard on Sun Jul 22, 2012 - 15:00:55

Quote from: Lively Stone on Sat Jul 21, 2012 - 07:06:46

Quote from: howard on Sat Jul 21, 2012 - 04:13:53
Where is the HS? Pay close attention to who God sent to the beloved prophet Daniel.

Daniel 9:21-23 (KJV)
Yea, whiles I was speaking in prayer, even the man Gabriel, whom I had seen in the vision at the beginning, being caused to fly swiftly, touched me about the time of the evening oblation

[22] And he informed me , and talked with me, and said, O Daniel, I am now come forth to give thee skill and understanding.

[23] At the beginning of thy supplications the commandment came forth, and I am come to shew thee ; for thou art greatly beloved: therefore understand the matter, and consider the vision.

Who  was sent to show Daniel things?
Who was sent to give Daniel skills and understanding


Where is the HS?
Why is Gabriel doing the HS job?

Get into the New Testament, howie.

Holy Spirit was with the Father.

Gabriel was used to bring a message, which is his job. That was God's way, often during those days. He still does it today.

same job function LS you just admitted it

lets look at gabriel bringing good news in the NT

Luke 1

26 And in the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent from God unto a city of Galilee, named Nazareth,

27 To a virgin espoused to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David; and the virgin's name was Mary.

28 And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, thou that art highly favoured, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.

29 And when she saw him, she was troubled at his saying, and cast in her mind what manner of salutation this should be.

30 And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God.

31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name Jesus.

32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:

33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.

good news don't you think!

Why would any right-thinking Christian deny that angels are used to deliver messages? After all, 'angel' means 'messenger'!!!

Anything an angel or Holy Spirit would say to us would be from God, and that would be perfect, and good---even if it is bad news.

Gabriel is an archangel. Holy Spirit is the Spirit of Christ, the author and revealer of the scriptures and of all truth.

Get into the word, howie, and study it---prayerfully, allowing Holy Spirit to open your heart and mind to His truth. Until you do, you are just going to continue spinning your squeaky wheels.

Look it is written Jesus created everything in heaven

Colossians 1:16 (KJV)
For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

All things created in heaven by Jesus,.

Quote from: Lively Stone on Sun Jul 22, 2012 - 20:10:08

Quote from: howard on Sun Jul 22, 2012 - 16:12:13


the bible teach this about a angel which Gabriel is

Hebrews 1:

7 And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.

13 But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool?

14 Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?


Gabriel is Holy
Gabriel is a spirit
Gabriel is sent forth

Gabriel is a Holy Spirit sent forth

Angels are spiritual CREATURES, and holy and are sent.

Holy Spirit is not a spiritual CREATURE.

I find your stubbornness and mocking laughter completely out of line.

Actually is really frustrating that the trinity doctrine has such a profound effect on Chrisitans

You are right, this is not a laughing matter

The people here knows the effect of the Roman Catholic doctrine has had on the world
It's saddening.

The trinity is a Roman Catholic doctrine like most of chrisitianity practiced today

What troubles me is the stubbornness of you and others who won't look at the verses I put and accept what is written.

I'm not stubborn LS I've been on the shoes of one beloved in the God the HS
Yet the Lord opened m eyes and ears to see it is not biblical

I don't want to argue or debate I just want you and others to read the other portrayals of the word spirit in the bible.

  I'm not here to change minds or create controversy
We all read the same bible and we all call ourselves Christian

Somebody is wrong

Quote from: Lively Stone on Sun Jul 22, 2012 - 19:38:02

Quote from: howard on Sun Jul 22, 2012 - 15:32:55

lets read how John got the revelation of Jesus its in the first chapter and first verse of relevation you missed it, I understand

Revelation 1
King James Version (KJV)

1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

2 Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw.

1 John 5:7
For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

I am stunned that you actually post scripture attesting to the Trinity, and completely ignore its importance!!! John's entire revelation was by the power of Holy Spirit.

QuoteLuke 1:19
And the angel answering said unto him, I am Gabriel, that stand in the presence of God; and am sent to speak unto thee, and to shew thee these glad tidings.

What does it say to you that Gabriel stands in the presence of God? Billions of angels stand in the same place. Gabriel is just one.

Luke 1:19 (KJV)
And the angel answering said unto him, I am Gabriel, that stand in the presence of God; and am sent to speak unto thee, and to shew thee these glad tidings.

Keep this in mind LS

Paul had to be retaugjt
Jesus had to teach the disciples
The apostles had to teach the people

1 John 4:1 (KJV)
Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

For me  LS that false spirit is the the RCC and the meeting they had after ther killed the apostles and saints

The average Christian think that every word spirit in te bible is God the HS

They have no understanding about the many definitions of the word spirit

God's words are spirit
God's air is spirit
God's angels are spirit

Ask the average Christian this and See that they don't know this.

What is the meaning of Lucifer?
Who was lucifer ?

What is Gabriel's job?
Who does he do his job for?

Think about this before anyone answer

Because Gabriel job is very important today as it was in Mary's day and Samson day

SPIRIT (Heavenly Beings)
God (Jesus and the Father)  
The Angels (All of them)  

SOUL (Flesh and Blood Beings)
Man (Humans)
Beasts, Insects, & Everything in the waters


Colossians 1v16
For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

Isaiah 63:7-10 (KJV)
I will mention the lovingkindnesses of the Lord , and the praises of the Lord , according to all that the Lord hath bestowed on us, and the great goodness toward the house of Israel, which he hath bestowed on them according to his mercies, and according to the multitude of his lovingkindnesses.

[8] For he said, Surely they are my people, children that will not lie: so he was their Saviour.

[9] In all their affliction he was afflicted, and the angel of his presence saved them: in his love and in his pity he redeemed them; and he bare them, and carried them all the days of old.

[10] But they rebelled, and vexed his holy Spirit: therefore he was turned to be their enemy, and he fought against them.

Matthew 6:9-13 (KJV)
After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name

[10] Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.

[11] Give us this day our daily bread

[12] And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.


13] And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.

When we pray We have the Father to begin it

John 14:13 (KJV)
And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.

And we have the son name to close the prayer  In Jesus name

Some one is missing