Christian Forums

Quote from: MeMyself on Thu Aug 16, 2012 - 14:49:23

Quote from: Bitter Sweet on Thu Aug 16, 2012 - 14:38:01

Quote from: MeMyself on Thu Aug 16, 2012 - 14:27:09

Will rule...not ruling now...will rule.  It hasn't happened yet. Not the rapture, not His second comming, not His Earthly rule...we are waiting still.

Forever is always, it's past present and future. I don't think forever is something in the future only. When he say's he is coming soon, doesn't mean we all arrive at once, that's why the gate never closes. Revelation 21:25 On no day will its gates ever be shut, for there will be no night there.

Darkness will shut people out.

Matthew 24:35-36  Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away. "No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.


Acts 1:4-9 4On one occasion, while he was eating with them, he gave them this command: "Do not leave Jerusalem, but wait for the gift my Father promised, which you have heard me speak about. For John baptized with water, but in a few days you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit."
when they met together, they asked him, "Lord, are you at this time going to restore the kingdom to Israel?"
He said to them: "It is not for you to know the times or dates the Father has set by his own authority. But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you; and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth."
After he said this, he was taken up before their very eyes, and a cloud hid him from their sight.

Forever has no beginning and no ending, but God has a plan within the time frame of eternity.  He alone knows the hour and the day of Christ's second coming and Earthly reign

Did you miss the calling? He came at Pentecost and fulfilled the promise of the prophet Joel Acts 2:16-32

Quote from: Funguy33 on Thu Aug 16, 2012 - 15:35:06

Quote from: MeMyself on Thu Aug 16, 2012 - 14:49:23

Quote from: Bitter Sweet on Thu Aug 16, 2012 - 14:38:01

Quote from: MeMyself on Thu Aug 16, 2012 - 14:27:09

Will rule...not ruling now...will rule.  It hasn't happened yet. Not the rapture, not His second comming, not His Earthly rule...we are waiting still.

Forever is always, it's past present and future. I don't think forever is something in the future only. When he say's he is coming soon, doesn't mean we all arrive at once, that's why the gate never closes. Revelation 21:25 On no day will its gates ever be shut, for there will be no night there.

Darkness will shut people out.

Matthew 24:35-36  Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away. "No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.


Acts 1:4-9 4On one occasion, while he was eating with them, he gave them this command: "Do not leave Jerusalem, but wait for the gift my Father promised, which you have heard me speak about. For John baptized with water, but in a few days you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit."
when they met together, they asked him, "Lord, are you at this time going to restore the kingdom to Israel?"
He said to them: "It is not for you to know the times or dates the Father has set by his own authority. But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you; and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth."
After he said this, he was taken up before their very eyes, and a cloud hid him from their sight.

Forever has no beginning and no ending, but God has a plan within the time frame of eternity.  He alone knows the hour and the day of Christ's second coming and Earthly reign

Did you miss the calling? He came at Pentecost and fulfilled the promise of the prophet Joel Acts 2:16-32

No, the Holy Spirit came at Pentecost...just like Jesus promised He would.  This is/was not the second coming of Christ!

Tribulation took place in the past when Roman legions destroyed Jerusalem and its temple in AD 70 during the end stages of the First Jewish–Roman War, and it only affected the Jewish people rather than all mankind.

Tribulation was a divine judgment visited upon the Jews for their sins, including rejection of Jesus as the promised Messiah. It occurred entirely in the past, around 70 AD when the armed forces of the Roman Empire destroyed Jerusalem and its temple.

Tribulation has its focus on the Gospels, in particular the prophetic passages in Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke 21, the Olivet discourse, rather than on the Apocalypse or Book of Revelation. We apply much of the symbolism in the Revelation to Rome, the Cæsars, and their persecution of Christians, rather than to the Tribulation upon the Jews.

Jesus' warning in Matthew 24:34 that "this generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled" is tied back to his similar warning to the Scribes and the Pharisees that their judgment would "come upon this generation" (Matthew 23:36), that is, during the first century rather than at a future time long after the Scribes and Pharisees had passed from the scene. The destruction in 70 AD occurred within a 40-year generation from the time when Jesus gave that discourse.

The judgment on the Jewish nation was executed by the Roman legions, "the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet" (Matthew 24:15), which Luke presented to his Gentile audience, unfamiliar with Daniel, as "armies" surrounding Jerusalem to cause its "desolation." (Luke 21:20)

Since Matthew 24 begins with Jesus visiting the Jerusalem Temple and pronouncing that "there shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down" (vs. 3), we see nothing in Scripture to indicate that another Jewish temple will ever be built. The prophecies were all fulfilled on the then-existing temple that Jesus spoke about and that was subsequently destroyed within that generation.

Quote from: Funguy33 on Thu Aug 16, 2012 - 15:59:17


Tribulation took place in the past when Roman legions destroyed Jerusalem and its temple in AD 70 during the end stages of the First Jewish–Roman War, and it only affected the Jewish people rather than all mankind.

Tribulation was a divine judgment visited upon the Jews for their sins, including rejection of Jesus as the promised Messiah. It occurred entirely in the past, around 70 AD when the armed forces of the Roman Empire destroyed Jerusalem and its temple.

Tribulation has its focus on the Gospels, in particular the prophetic passages in Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke 21, the Olivet discourse, rather than on the Apocalypse or Book of Revelation. We apply much of the symbolism in the Revelation to Rome, the Cæsars, and their persecution of Christians, rather than to the Tribulation upon the Jews.

Jesus' warning in Matthew 24:34 that "this generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled" is tied back to his similar warning to the Scribes and the Pharisees that their judgment would "come upon this generation" (Matthew 23:36), that is, during the first century rather than at a future time long after the Scribes and Pharisees had passed from the scene. The destruction in 70 AD occurred within a 40-year generation from the time when Jesus gave that discourse.

The judgment on the Jewish nation was executed by the Roman legions, "the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet" (Matthew 24:15), which Luke presented to his Gentile audience, unfamiliar with Daniel, as "armies" surrounding Jerusalem to cause its "desolation." (Luke 21:20)

Since Matthew 24 begins with Jesus visiting the Jerusalem Temple and pronouncing that "there shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down" (vs. 3), we see nothing in Scripture to indicate that another Jewish temple will ever be built. The prophecies were all fulfilled on the then-existing temple that Jesus spoke about and that was subsequently destroyed within that generation.

Quote from: Funguy33 on Sun Aug 05, 2012 - 20:25:20

Quote from: chosenone on Sun Aug 05, 2012 - 20:20:45
Bad things happen to good people, and good things happen to bad people, because we live in a fallen worlds where God is allowing this to happen till Jesus comes again. Many bad things that happen to us are because of the sins of others.

There are no Bible scriptures for that kind of theory.

Isaiah 45:7 says all evil comes only from God as a punishment from God.

Clearly sir....you don't understand the bible or God and there is nothing fun or funny about statements of that sort

You do a little more study before you make statements that mis-characterize and misrepresent the character and nature of God

Quote from: Funguy33 on Sun Aug 05, 2012 - 20:10:06


Bad things happen because God is punishing for their sins of their past lives... Exodus 34:7

Jesus said to those He healed that if they sinned again it would be worse for them the next time... John 5:14

This topic question reminded me of the following quote that I fell in love with when I first read it:


March 22, 2006
" Do not pray for an easy life, pray to be a strong person. Not to be rich,
but to be resourceful. Not to be beautiful, but to feel confident about
yourself. Do not pray to remove trials, for it hones you to be a better
person. To remove pain & hurt, for it makes you appreciate life. Pray to
experience defeat, for it gives you a chance to have hope in your heart, to
be HUMAN, closer to God."

Copyright © 2006 James Padilla

Quote from: gospel on Thu Aug 16, 2012 - 17:04:02

Quote from: Funguy33 on Sun Aug 05, 2012 - 20:25:20

Quote from: chosenone on Sun Aug 05, 2012 - 20:20:45
Bad things happen to good people, and good things happen to bad people, because we live in a fallen worlds where God is allowing this to happen till Jesus comes again. Many bad things that happen to us are because of the sins of others.

There are no Bible scriptures for that kind of theory.

Isaiah 45:7 says all evil comes only from God as a punishment from God.

Clearly sir....you don't understand the bible or God and there is nothing fun or funny about statements of that sort

You do a little more study before you make statements that mis-characterize and misrepresent the character and nature of God

You must not be aware of the Book of Lamentations, or Lev 26 or Deuteronomy 28

Amos 3:6

6  Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid?

Shall there be evil in a city, and the Lord hath not done it?

Quote from: Funguy33 on Thu Aug 16, 2012 - 09:35:38

Quote from: MeMyself on Thu Aug 16, 2012 - 08:25:53

Quote from: Funguy33 on Thu Aug 16, 2012 - 08:13:03
The Holy Spirit wouldn't be here if the Kingdom of Heaven wasn't here.

Not true. The Holy Spirit is given us to be our helper..in the Kingdom of Heaven, we will not need a helper, because there will be nothing but perfection there. We will see Him face to face! 

Quote from: Funguy33 on Thu Aug 16, 2012 - 08:13:03
We are in the world but not of the world.

In the world...as in these are the breaks folks.
Not of the world...as in do not conform to the world's ways, which is why we need the helper.

Quote from: Funguy33 on Thu Aug 16, 2012 - 08:13:03
The world will always be here and Jesus Kingdom will always expand.

The world will not always be here...and our time is limited on the expansion of the Kingdom.

Quote from: Funguy33 on Thu Aug 16, 2012 - 08:13:03
Look at the number of Christians China has added. They are a greater number than in the USA.

Yes, the Holy Spirit is moving on these people, praise God! 

Quote from: Funguy33 on Thu Aug 16, 2012 - 08:13:03
WE have a long way to go but it will never be perfect.

The Kingdom of God is perfect.  We have nothing to do with it. 

Quote from: Funguy33 on Thu Aug 16, 2012 - 08:13:03
As long as we have freewill, we will have sinners. That is why bad things happen to good people.

nope. You are flat out wrong.
John 9:1-3
1As he went along, he saw a man blind from birth. 2His disciples asked him, "Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?"
3"Neither this man nor his parents sinned," said Jesus, "but this happened so that the work of God might be displayed in his life

Deuteronomy 28:1

And it shall come to pass; if thou shalt hearken diligently unto the voice of the Lord thy God, to observe and to do all his commandments which I command thee this day, that the Lord thy God will set thee on high above all nations of the earth:

And all these blessings shall come on thee, and overtake thee, if thou shalt hearken unto the voice of the Lord thy God.

I don't think anyone born blind or any other handicap would feel like they were being blessed.

Meet Nick Vujicic, a man born without limbs, who loves Jesus Christ and loves his life!

http://youtu.be/H8ZuKF3dxCY

Quote from: Funguy33 on Thu Aug 16, 2012 - 10:27:05

Quote from: Willie T on Thu Aug 16, 2012 - 09:52:47

Quote from: Jimmy on Thu Aug 16, 2012 - 08:23:02

Quote from: Willie T on Thu Aug 16, 2012 - 08:19:37

Quote from: Funguy33 on Thu Aug 16, 2012 - 08:13:03

Quote from: Willie T on Thu Aug 16, 2012 - 07:26:26
No,Funnyguy33, the Kingdom of God is not here on Earth yet.  We are here, and we are of (in) that kingdom.  But the fully realized kingdom is not yet here, it only breaks through to be glimpsed once in awhile when Christians allow it to work through them.

The Holy Spirit wouldn't be here if the Kingdom of Heaven wasn't here. We are in the world but not of the world. The world will always be here and Jesus Kingdom will always expand. Look at the number of Christians China has added. They are a greater number than in the USA. WE have a long way to go but it will never be perfect. As long as we have freewill, we will have sinners. That is why bad things happen to good people.

Brilliant.  If you went to China, would the Republic of the USA, then be in China?  No.  You could possibly show a little of American ways while you were there (if they would let you) but the Republic would remain right here in North America.

Is the king on his throne?

Stop by the house, and pick me up the next time you drive there.

Jesus goes with me everywhere I go. That is why He can't return, He is already here.

You cannot differentiate between the spiritual and the physical?

Quote from: Funguy33 on Thu Aug 16, 2012 - 14:23:05

Quote from: jmldn2 on Thu Aug 16, 2012 - 11:50:26

Bad things happen to bad people as well as good things happen to good people.  I do not believe bad things happen to good people because they sinned.  Look at the book of Job.  Evil is prevalent in this world today and evil loves to hurt, abuse, debase, kill.  It's the work of Satan himself.

If you read the comments by Jobs friends, you will see Job was being punished for sins in his last life.

I don't think he was too blessed, when he had to raise 10 teenagers again in his old age.

That is false! Job was not being punished! God called him righteous, and was pleased with him. Job's friends didn't have the right picture---the same way you don't.

Quote from: Funguy33 on Thu Aug 16, 2012 - 15:59:17


Tribulation took place in the past when Roman legions destroyed Jerusalem and its temple in AD 70 during the end stages of the First Jewish–Roman War, and it only affected the Jewish people rather than all mankind.

Tribulation was a divine judgment visited upon the Jews for their sins, including rejection of Jesus as the promised Messiah. It occurred entirely in the past, around 70 AD when the armed forces of the Roman Empire destroyed Jerusalem and its temple.

Tribulation has its focus on the Gospels, in particular the prophetic passages in Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke 21, the Olivet discourse, rather than on the Apocalypse or Book of Revelation. We apply much of the symbolism in the Revelation to Rome, the Cæsars, and their persecution of Christians, rather than to the Tribulation upon the Jews.

Jesus' warning in Matthew 24:34 that "this generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled" is tied back to his similar warning to the Scribes and the Pharisees that their judgment would "come upon this generation" (Matthew 23:36), that is, during the first century rather than at a future time long after the Scribes and Pharisees had passed from the scene. The destruction in 70 AD occurred within a 40-year generation from the time when Jesus gave that discourse.

The judgment on the Jewish nation was executed by the Roman legions, "the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet" (Matthew 24:15), which Luke presented to his Gentile audience, unfamiliar with Daniel, as "armies" surrounding Jerusalem to cause its "desolation." (Luke 21:20)

Since Matthew 24 begins with Jesus visiting the Jerusalem Temple and pronouncing that "there shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down" (vs. 3), we see nothing in Scripture to indicate that another Jewish temple will ever be built. The prophecies were all fulfilled on the then-existing temple that Jesus spoke about and that was subsequently destroyed within that generation.

You need to take this preterist prattle to the preterist forum. It doesn't belong here.

Quote from: Lively Stone on Thu Aug 16, 2012 - 18:33:04

Quote from: Funguy33 on Thu Aug 16, 2012 - 15:59:17


Tribulation took place in the past when Roman legions destroyed Jerusalem and its temple in AD 70 during the end stages of the First Jewish–Roman War, and it only affected the Jewish people rather than all mankind.

Tribulation was a divine judgment visited upon the Jews for their sins, including rejection of Jesus as the promised Messiah. It occurred entirely in the past, around 70 AD when the armed forces of the Roman Empire destroyed Jerusalem and its temple.

Tribulation has its focus on the Gospels, in particular the prophetic passages in Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke 21, the Olivet discourse, rather than on the Apocalypse or Book of Revelation. We apply much of the symbolism in the Revelation to Rome, the Cæsars, and their persecution of Christians, rather than to the Tribulation upon the Jews.

Jesus' warning in Matthew 24:34 that "this generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled" is tied back to his similar warning to the Scribes and the Pharisees that their judgment would "come upon this generation" (Matthew 23:36), that is, during the first century rather than at a future time long after the Scribes and Pharisees had passed from the scene. The destruction in 70 AD occurred within a 40-year generation from the time when Jesus gave that discourse.

The judgment on the Jewish nation was executed by the Roman legions, "the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet" (Matthew 24:15), which Luke presented to his Gentile audience, unfamiliar with Daniel, as "armies" surrounding Jerusalem to cause its "desolation." (Luke 21:20)

Since Matthew 24 begins with Jesus visiting the Jerusalem Temple and pronouncing that "there shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down" (vs. 3), we see nothing in Scripture to indicate that another Jewish temple will ever be built. The prophecies were all fulfilled on the then-existing temple that Jesus spoke about and that was subsequently destroyed within that generation.

You need to take this preterist prattle to the preterist forum. It doesn't belong here.

You are right...Preterism is not Non Traditional

Quote from: Lively Stone on Thu Aug 16, 2012 - 18:27:11

Quote from: Funguy33 on Thu Aug 16, 2012 - 14:23:05

Quote from: jmldn2 on Thu Aug 16, 2012 - 11:50:26

Bad things happen to bad people as well as good things happen to good people.  I do not believe bad things happen to good people because they sinned.  Look at the book of Job.  Evil is prevalent in this world today and evil loves to hurt, abuse, debase, kill.  It's the work of Satan himself.

If you read the comments by Jobs friends, you will see Job was being punished for sins in his last life.

I don't think he was too blessed, when he had to raise 10 teenagers again in his old age.

That is false! Job was not being punished! God called him righteous, and was pleased with him. Job's friends didn't have the right picture---the same way you don't.

I would feel, if God was allowing Satan to treat me like he did Job, it was a punishment.

God didn't correct Job's friends theology.

Quote from: Funguy33 on Thu Aug 16, 2012 - 18:49:23
God didn't correct Job's friends theology.

This MIGHT have been considered a little correction on his friend's part.

QuoteJob 42
7 After the Lord had said these things to Job, he said to Eliphaz the Temanite, "I am angry with you and your two friends, because you have not spoken the truth about me, as my servant Job has. 8 So now take seven bulls and seven rams  and go to my servant Job and sacrifice a burnt offering for yourselves. My servant Job will pray for you, and I will accept his prayer and not deal with you according to your folly. You have not spoken the truth about me, as my servant Job has." 9 So Eliphaz the Temanite, Bildad the Shuhite and Zophar the Naamathite did what the Lord told them; and the Lord accepted Job's prayer.

You should be careful of repeatedly trying to quote a Bible you really don't seem to know too much about.  God just might get tired of the baloney one of these days.

Willie T

You never did answer my question...

Explain the New Covenant and how John 5:14 fits into it.

Quote from: Funguy33 on Thu Aug 16, 2012 - 19:29:49
Willie T

You never did answer my question...

Explain the New Covenant and how John 5:14 fits into it.

To explain it again to you, when others have already done so, several times, will do no good.  You seem to be unable to decipher it.

Quote from: Funguy33 on Thu Aug 16, 2012 - 18:43:25

Quote from: Lively Stone on Thu Aug 16, 2012 - 18:33:04

Quote from: Funguy33 on Thu Aug 16, 2012 - 15:59:17


Tribulation took place in the past when Roman legions destroyed Jerusalem and its temple in AD 70 during the end stages of the First Jewish–Roman War, and it only affected the Jewish people rather than all mankind.

Tribulation was a divine judgment visited upon the Jews for their sins, including rejection of Jesus as the promised Messiah. It occurred entirely in the past, around 70 AD when the armed forces of the Roman Empire destroyed Jerusalem and its temple.

Tribulation has its focus on the Gospels, in particular the prophetic passages in Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke 21, the Olivet discourse, rather than on the Apocalypse or Book of Revelation. We apply much of the symbolism in the Revelation to Rome, the Cæsars, and their persecution of Christians, rather than to the Tribulation upon the Jews.

Jesus' warning in Matthew 24:34 that "this generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled" is tied back to his similar warning to the Scribes and the Pharisees that their judgment would "come upon this generation" (Matthew 23:36), that is, during the first century rather than at a future time long after the Scribes and Pharisees had passed from the scene. The destruction in 70 AD occurred within a 40-year generation from the time when Jesus gave that discourse.

The judgment on the Jewish nation was executed by the Roman legions, "the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet" (Matthew 24:15), which Luke presented to his Gentile audience, unfamiliar with Daniel, as "armies" surrounding Jerusalem to cause its "desolation." (Luke 21:20)

Since Matthew 24 begins with Jesus visiting the Jerusalem Temple and pronouncing that "there shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down" (vs. 3), we see nothing in Scripture to indicate that another Jewish temple will ever be built. The prophecies were all fulfilled on the then-existing temple that Jesus spoke about and that was subsequently destroyed within that generation.

You need to take this preterist prattle to the preterist forum. It doesn't belong here.

You are right...Preterism is not Non Traditional

It is that and MORE, which is why it needs to be confined to its own forum.

Quote from: Funguy33 on Thu Aug 16, 2012 - 18:49:23

Quote from: Lively Stone on Thu Aug 16, 2012 - 18:27:11

Quote from: Funguy33 on Thu Aug 16, 2012 - 14:23:05

Quote from: jmldn2 on Thu Aug 16, 2012 - 11:50:26

Bad things happen to bad people as well as good things happen to good people.  I do not believe bad things happen to good people because they sinned.  Look at the book of Job.  Evil is prevalent in this world today and evil loves to hurt, abuse, debase, kill.  It's the work of Satan himself.

If you read the comments by Jobs friends, you will see Job was being punished for sins in his last life.

I don't think he was too blessed, when he had to raise 10 teenagers again in his old age.

That is false! Job was not being punished! God called him righteous, and was pleased with him. Job's friends didn't have the right picture---the same way you don't.

I would feel, if God was allowing Satan to treat me like he did Job, it was a punishment.

God didn't correct Job's friends theology.

I am sure Job did feel somewhat punished! However, he knew he had not sinned, and God revealed Himself and His truth to him, as well as pointing out Job's friends' false comfort.

Quote from: Lively Stone on Thu Aug 16, 2012 - 19:43:01

Quote from: Funguy33 on Thu Aug 16, 2012 - 18:49:23

Quote from: Lively Stone on Thu Aug 16, 2012 - 18:27:11

Quote from: Funguy33 on Thu Aug 16, 2012 - 14:23:05

Quote from: jmldn2 on Thu Aug 16, 2012 - 11:50:26

Bad things happen to bad people as well as good things happen to good people.  I do not believe bad things happen to good people because they sinned.  Look at the book of Job.  Evil is prevalent in this world today and evil loves to hurt, abuse, debase, kill.  It's the work of Satan himself.

If you read the comments by Jobs friends, you will see Job was being punished for sins in his last life.

I don't think he was too blessed, when he had to raise 10 teenagers again in his old age.

That is false! Job was not being punished! God called him righteous, and was pleased with him. Job's friends didn't have the right picture---the same way you don't.

I would feel, if God was allowing Satan to treat me like he did Job, it was a punishment.

God didn't correct Job's friends theology.

I am sure Job did feel somewhat punished! However, he knew he had not sinned, and God revealed Himself and His truth to him.

If Job wasn't being punished for sin in his last life, then the sad thing, according to the story, Job went through hell, so God could win a bet with Satan.

Quote from: Funguy33 on Thu Aug 16, 2012 - 19:48:21

Quote from: Lively Stone on Thu Aug 16, 2012 - 19:43:01

Quote from: Funguy33 on Thu Aug 16, 2012 - 18:49:23

Quote from: Lively Stone on Thu Aug 16, 2012 - 18:27:11

Quote from: Funguy33 on Thu Aug 16, 2012 - 14:23:05

Quote from: jmldn2 on Thu Aug 16, 2012 - 11:50:26

Bad things happen to bad people as well as good things happen to good people.  I do not believe bad things happen to good people because they sinned.  Look at the book of Job.  Evil is prevalent in this world today and evil loves to hurt, abuse, debase, kill.  It's the work of Satan himself.

If you read the comments by Jobs friends, you will see Job was being punished for sins in his last life.

I don't think he was too blessed, when he had to raise 10 teenagers again in his old age.

That is false! Job was not being punished! God called him righteous, and was pleased with him. Job's friends didn't have the right picture---the same way you don't.

I would feel, if God was allowing Satan to treat me like he did Job, it was a punishment.

God didn't correct Job's friends theology.

I am sure Job did feel somewhat punished! However, he knew he had not sinned, and God revealed Himself and His truth to him.

If Job wasn't being punished for sin in his last life, then the sad thing, according to the story, Job went through hell, so God could win a bet with Satan.

That just goes to show you that you do not comprehend the scriptures.

Quote from: Lively Stone on Thu Aug 16, 2012 - 19:58:36

Quote from: Funguy33 on Thu Aug 16, 2012 - 19:48:21

Quote from: Lively Stone on Thu Aug 16, 2012 - 19:43:01

Quote from: Funguy33 on Thu Aug 16, 2012 - 18:49:23

Quote from: Lively Stone on Thu Aug 16, 2012 - 18:27:11

Quote from: Funguy33 on Thu Aug 16, 2012 - 14:23:05

Quote from: jmldn2 on Thu Aug 16, 2012 - 11:50:26

Bad things happen to bad people as well as good things happen to good people.  I do not believe bad things happen to good people because they sinned.  Look at the book of Job.  Evil is prevalent in this world today and evil loves to hurt, abuse, debase, kill.  It's the work of Satan himself.

If you read the comments by Jobs friends, you will see Job was being punished for sins in his last life.

I don't think he was too blessed, when he had to raise 10 teenagers again in his old age.

That is false! Job was not being punished! God called him righteous, and was pleased with him. Job's friends didn't have the right picture---the same way you don't.

I would feel, if God was allowing Satan to treat me like he did Job, it was a punishment.

God didn't correct Job's friends theology.

I am sure Job did feel somewhat punished! However, he knew he had not sinned, and God revealed Himself and His truth to him.

If Job wasn't being punished for sin in his last life, then the sad thing, according to the story, Job went through hell, so God could win a bet with Satan.

That just goes to show you that you do not comprehend the scriptures.

Isaiah 66:24

24 "And they shall go forth and look
Upon the corpses of the men
Who have transgressed against Me.
For their worm does not die,
And their fire is not quenched.
They shall be an abhorrence to all flesh."

We have that same experience when we see the street people or aids babies who were born into their Hell because of punishment from God.

Quote from: Funguy33 on Thu Aug 16, 2012 - 21:07:17


Isaiah 66:24

24 "And they shall go forth and look
Upon the corpses of the men
Who have transgressed against Me.
For their worm does not die,
And their fire is not quenched.
They shall be an abhorrence to all flesh."

We have that same experience when we see the street people or aids babies who were born into their Hell because of punishment from God.

What experience is that? Don't you have compassion?

Your cherry-picked passage of scripture has nothing to do with your viewpoint. It has to do with the devastation done to the enemies of Jesus upon His return, during His Millennial Reign.

Quote from: Lively Stone on Fri Aug 17, 2012 - 19:26:10

Quote from: Funguy33 on Thu Aug 16, 2012 - 21:07:17


Isaiah 66:24

24 "And they shall go forth and look
Upon the corpses of the men
Who have transgressed against Me.
For their worm does not die,
And their fire is not quenched.
They shall be an abhorrence to all flesh."

We have that same experience when we see the street people or aids babies who were born into their Hell because of punishment from God.

What experience is that? Don't you have compassion?

Your cherry-picked passage of scripture has nothing to do with your viewpoint. It has to do with the devastation done to the enemies of Jesus upon His return, during His Millennial Reign.

Lively,
It's no surprise to most here that there is something wrong with FunnyGuy's thinking.  But anyone who looks upon a little AIDS baby with the notion that "They shall be an abhorrence to all flesh" is bouncing up against some pretty serious mental issues.  This is a thoroughly warped guy.

Quote from: Willie T on Fri Aug 17, 2012 - 19:35:41

Quote from: Lively Stone on Fri Aug 17, 2012 - 19:26:10

Quote from: Funguy33 on Thu Aug 16, 2012 - 21:07:17


Isaiah 66:24

24 "And they shall go forth and look
Upon the corpses of the men
Who have transgressed against Me.
For their worm does not die,
And their fire is not quenched.
They shall be an abhorrence to all flesh."

We have that same experience when we see the street people or aids babies who were born into their Hell because of punishment from God.

What experience is that? Don't you have compassion?

Your cherry-picked passage of scripture has nothing to do with your viewpoint. It has to do with the devastation done to the enemies of Jesus upon His return, during His Millennial Reign.

Lively,
It's no surprise to most here that there is something wrong with FunnyGuy's thinking.  But anyone who looks upon a little AIDS baby with the notion that "They shall be an abhorrence to all flesh" is bouncing up against some pretty serious mental issues.  This is a thoroughly warped guy.

Do you think it is a coincidence the God who knows us in our mother's womb would allow this, except, they are being punished for their last life?

Quote from: Funguy33 on Fri Aug 17, 2012 - 19:44:19

Quote from: Willie T on Fri Aug 17, 2012 - 19:35:41

Quote from: Lively Stone on Fri Aug 17, 2012 - 19:26:10

Quote from: Funguy33 on Thu Aug 16, 2012 - 21:07:17


Isaiah 66:24

24 "And they shall go forth and look
Upon the corpses of the men
Who have transgressed against Me.
For their worm does not die,
And their fire is not quenched.
They shall be an abhorrence to all flesh."

We have that same experience when we see the street people or aids babies who were born into their Hell because of punishment from God.

What experience is that? Don't you have compassion?

Your cherry-picked passage of scripture has nothing to do with your viewpoint. It has to do with the devastation done to the enemies of Jesus upon His return, during His Millennial Reign.

Lively,
It's no surprise to most here that there is something wrong with FunnyGuy's thinking.  But anyone who looks upon a little AIDS baby with the notion that "They shall be an abhorrence to all flesh" is bouncing up against some pretty serious mental issues.  This is a thoroughly warped guy.

Do you think it is a coincidence the God who knows us in our mother's womb would allow this, except, they are being punished for their last life?

Do you know what 'coincidence' means?

God knows everything that's going on in the womb. He also mourns when it goes awry because of the imperfection of this world. He doesn't create people to be deformed or challenged in any way. That is the result of the fall. It isn't personal punishment for anyone...it's simply what we deal with living in a fallen world.

There is no 'last life'! We have been given one life to live---for Jesus Christ, or not. You need to cease with the inferences to the demonic belief in reincarnation. It won't fly here.

Quote from: Lively Stone on Fri Aug 17, 2012 - 21:00:51

Quote from: Funguy33 on Fri Aug 17, 2012 - 19:44:19

Quote from: Willie T on Fri Aug 17, 2012 - 19:35:41

Quote from: Lively Stone on Fri Aug 17, 2012 - 19:26:10

Quote from: Funguy33 on Thu Aug 16, 2012 - 21:07:17


Isaiah 66:24

24 "And they shall go forth and look
Upon the corpses of the men
Who have transgressed against Me.
For their worm does not die,
And their fire is not quenched.
They shall be an abhorrence to all flesh."

We have that same experience when we see the street people or aids babies who were born into their Hell because of punishment from God.

What experience is that? Don't you have compassion?

Your cherry-picked passage of scripture has nothing to do with your viewpoint. It has to do with the devastation done to the enemies of Jesus upon His return, during His Millennial Reign.

Lively,
It's no surprise to most here that there is something wrong with FunnyGuy's thinking.  But anyone who looks upon a little AIDS baby with the notion that "They shall be an abhorrence to all flesh" is bouncing up against some pretty serious mental issues.  This is a thoroughly warped guy.

Do you think it is a coincidence the God who knows us in our mother's womb would allow this, except, they are being punished for their last life?

Do you know what 'coincidence' means?

God knows everything that's going on in the womb. He also mourns when it goes awry because of the imperfection of this world. He doesn't create people to be deformed or challenged in any way. That is the result of the fall. It isn't personal punishment for anyone...it's simply what we deal with living in a fallen world.

There is no 'last life'! We have been given one life to live---for Jesus Christ, or not. You need to cease with the inferences to the demonic belief in reincarnation. It won't fly here.

Do you have a scripture for your false belief?

Deuteronomy 28 says God does cause illness as a punishment for sin.

Quote from: Funguy33 on Fri Aug 17, 2012 - 22:15:31

Quote from: Lively Stone on Fri Aug 17, 2012 - 21:00:51

Quote from: Funguy33 on Fri Aug 17, 2012 - 19:44:19

Quote from: Willie T on Fri Aug 17, 2012 - 19:35:41

Quote from: Lively Stone on Fri Aug 17, 2012 - 19:26:10

Quote from: Funguy33 on Thu Aug 16, 2012 - 21:07:17


Isaiah 66:24

24 "And they shall go forth and look
Upon the corpses of the men
Who have transgressed against Me.
For their worm does not die,
And their fire is not quenched.
They shall be an abhorrence to all flesh."

We have that same experience when we see the street people or aids babies who were born into their Hell because of punishment from God.

What experience is that? Don't you have compassion?

Your cherry-picked passage of scripture has nothing to do with your viewpoint. It has to do with the devastation done to the enemies of Jesus upon His return, during His Millennial Reign.

Lively,
It's no surprise to most here that there is something wrong with FunnyGuy's thinking.  But anyone who looks upon a little AIDS baby with the notion that "They shall be an abhorrence to all flesh" is bouncing up against some pretty serious mental issues.  This is a thoroughly warped guy.

Do you think it is a coincidence the God who knows us in our mother's womb would allow this, except, they are being punished for their last life?

Do you know what 'coincidence' means?

God knows everything that's going on in the womb. He also mourns when it goes awry because of the imperfection of this world. He doesn't create people to be deformed or challenged in any way. That is the result of the fall. It isn't personal punishment for anyone...it's simply what we deal with living in a fallen world.

There is no 'last life'! We have been given one life to live---for Jesus Christ, or not. You need to cease with the inferences to the demonic belief in reincarnation. It won't fly here.

Do you have a scripture for your false belief?

I hold to no false beliefs, because I believe what God says.

Hebrews 9:27-28
Just as man is destined to die once, and after that to face judgment, so Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many people; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him.

Reincarnation is a lie of Satan. What is true is salvation by GRACE. Reincarnation requires each person to work out his own salvation—and when he finally did he would simply cease to exist!  Jesus already paid for all of our evil deeds.  All we have to do is accept the salvation He offers as a free gift!

Accepting the lie of reincarnation is the same as rejecting salvation.

QuoteDeuteronomy 28 says God does cause illness as a punishment for sin.

Sin brings consequences. For instance, a person who holds on to a grudge develops a bitter root, which turns into Cancer. Is that something God visits upon people? No. We bring it on ourselves.

God says He is our healer and heals all our diseases. Either He is Jehovah Rapha and you declare Him as such, or to you He is a liar and a corrupt judge, and you declare the opposite, which is a lie. You have no scripture to support yourself.

Quote from: Lively Stone on Fri Aug 17, 2012 - 22:47:09

Quote from: Funguy33 on Fri Aug 17, 2012 - 22:15:31

Quote from: Lively Stone on Fri Aug 17, 2012 - 21:00:51

Quote from: Funguy33 on Fri Aug 17, 2012 - 19:44:19

Quote from: Willie T on Fri Aug 17, 2012 - 19:35:41

Quote from: Lively Stone on Fri Aug 17, 2012 - 19:26:10

Quote from: Funguy33 on Thu Aug 16, 2012 - 21:07:17


Isaiah 66:24

24 "And they shall go forth and look
Upon the corpses of the men
Who have transgressed against Me.
For their worm does not die,
And their fire is not quenched.
They shall be an abhorrence to all flesh."

We have that same experience when we see the street people or aids babies who were born into their Hell because of punishment from God.

What experience is that? Don't you have compassion?

Your cherry-picked passage of scripture has nothing to do with your viewpoint. It has to do with the devastation done to the enemies of Jesus upon His return, during His Millennial Reign.

Lively,
It's no surprise to most here that there is something wrong with FunnyGuy's thinking.  But anyone who looks upon a little AIDS baby with the notion that "They shall be an abhorrence to all flesh" is bouncing up against some pretty serious mental issues.  This is a thoroughly warped guy.

Do you think it is a coincidence the God who knows us in our mother's womb would allow this, except, they are being punished for their last life?

Do you know what 'coincidence' means?

God knows everything that's going on in the womb. He also mourns when it goes awry because of the imperfection of this world. He doesn't create people to be deformed or challenged in any way. That is the result of the fall. It isn't personal punishment for anyone...it's simply what we deal with living in a fallen world.

There is no 'last life'! We have been given one life to live---for Jesus Christ, or not. You need to cease with the inferences to the demonic belief in reincarnation. It won't fly here.

Do you have a scripture for your false belief?

I hold to no false beliefs, because I believe what God says.

Hebrews 9:27-28
Just as man is destined to die once, and after that to face judgment, so Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many people; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him.

Reincarnation is a lie of Satan. What is true is salvation by GRACE. Reincarnation requires each person to work out his own salvation—and when he finally did he would simply cease to exist!  Jesus already paid for all of our evil deeds.  All we have to do is accept the salvation He offers as a free gift!

Accepting the lie of reincarnation is the same as rejecting salvation.

QuoteDeuteronomy 28 says God does cause illness as a punishment for sin.

Sin brings consequences. For instance, a person who holds on to a grudge develops a bitter root, which turns into Cancer. Is that something God visits upon people? No. We bring it on ourselves.

God says He is our healer and heals all our diseases. Either He is Jehovah Rapha and you declare Him as such, or to you He is a liar and a corrupt judge, and you declare the opposite, which is a lie. You have no scripture to support yourself.

Jesus said in Exodus 34:7 we will pay for our sins 3-4 lifetimes.

Hebrews 9:27-28 was Jesus who was appointed to die. Adam and Eve were not appointed to die. We die because of sin.

You should go to the hospital and start healing, it sure is needed. When Jesus healed, He told the people not to sin again or it would be worse next time. Leviticus 26 says the punishment will multiply each time.

Quote from: Funguy33 on Fri Aug 17, 2012 - 22:59:26

Quote from: Lively Stone on Fri Aug 17, 2012 - 22:47:09

Quote from: Funguy33 on Fri Aug 17, 2012 - 22:15:31

Quote from: Lively Stone on Fri Aug 17, 2012 - 21:00:51

Quote from: Funguy33 on Fri Aug 17, 2012 - 19:44:19

Quote from: Willie T on Fri Aug 17, 2012 - 19:35:41

Quote from: Lively Stone on Fri Aug 17, 2012 - 19:26:10

Quote from: Funguy33 on Thu Aug 16, 2012 - 21:07:17


Isaiah 66:24

24 "And they shall go forth and look
Upon the corpses of the men
Who have transgressed against Me.
For their worm does not die,
And their fire is not quenched.
They shall be an abhorrence to all flesh."

We have that same experience when we see the street people or aids babies who were born into their Hell because of punishment from God.

What experience is that? Don't you have compassion?

Your cherry-picked passage of scripture has nothing to do with your viewpoint. It has to do with the devastation done to the enemies of Jesus upon His return, during His Millennial Reign.

Lively,
It's no surprise to most here that there is something wrong with FunnyGuy's thinking.  But anyone who looks upon a little AIDS baby with the notion that "They shall be an abhorrence to all flesh" is bouncing up against some pretty serious mental issues.  This is a thoroughly warped guy.

Do you think it is a coincidence the God who knows us in our mother's womb would allow this, except, they are being punished for their last life?

Do you know what 'coincidence' means?

God knows everything that's going on in the womb. He also mourns when it goes awry because of the imperfection of this world. He doesn't create people to be deformed or challenged in any way. That is the result of the fall. It isn't personal punishment for anyone...it's simply what we deal with living in a fallen world.

There is no 'last life'! We have been given one life to live---for Jesus Christ, or not. You need to cease with the inferences to the demonic belief in reincarnation. It won't fly here.

Do you have a scripture for your false belief?

I hold to no false beliefs, because I believe what God says.

Hebrews 9:27-28
Just as man is destined to die once, and after that to face judgment, so Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many people; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him.

Reincarnation is a lie of Satan. What is true is salvation by GRACE. Reincarnation requires each person to work out his own salvation—and when he finally did he would simply cease to exist!  Jesus already paid for all of our evil deeds.  All we have to do is accept the salvation He offers as a free gift!

Accepting the lie of reincarnation is the same as rejecting salvation.

QuoteDeuteronomy 28 says God does cause illness as a punishment for sin.

Sin brings consequences. For instance, a person who holds on to a grudge develops a bitter root, which turns into Cancer. Is that something God visits upon people? No. We bring it on ourselves.

God says He is our healer and heals all our diseases. Either He is Jehovah Rapha and you declare Him as such, or to you He is a liar and a corrupt judge, and you declare the opposite, which is a lie. You have no scripture to support yourself.

Jesus said in Exodus 34:7 we will pay for our sins 3-4 lifetimes.

You are still dancing to that old tune that has been refuted for you time after time. We don't pay for anything when Jesus has already paid for it...unless you want to. It is up to you.

QuoteHebrews 9:27-28 was Jesus who was appointed to die. Adam and Eve were not appointed to die. We die because of sin.

No---it doesn't say that. You are reading scripture wrong.

QuoteYou should go to the hospital and start healing, it sure is needed. When Jesus healed, He told the people not to sin again or it would be worse next time. Leviticus 26 says the punishment will multiply each time.

Why should I do that? The gifts are for use within the Body of Christ. All believers have their healing already. All they have to do is appropriate it by faith.

God doesn't punish. He lovingly convicts, corrects and chastises through the scriptures.

Lively Stone,

I do NOT believe the same as funguy here but this conversation gives me good opportunity to ask something I have genuinely wondered for some time. You said God does not make babies deformed but that it's a result of the fall. Most Christians believe God actually forms every person in the womb, so how is it that you can say that He doesn't make some blind or lame, or with their organs on the outside of their body, or with other deformities? Wouldn't it be only one of the following: He doesn't actually form each human being but has created life to do what it does in the womb naturally (and sometimes things go wrong in that process) or that God actually does personally knit us together and has purposefully made some with deformities and the like? BTW, I'm not implying that if it's the latter He does it because of some sin in that person's past life.. I agree that's totally unbiblical.

Quote from: raggthyme76 on Fri Aug 17, 2012 - 23:43:04
Lively Stone,

I do NOT believe the same as funguy here but this conversation gives me good opportunity to ask something I have genuinely wondered for some time. You said God does not make babies deformed but that it's a result of the fall. Most Christians believe God actually forms every person in the womb, so how is it that you can say that He doesn't make some blind or lame, or with their organs on the outside of their body, or with other deformities? Wouldn't it be only one of the following: He doesn't actually form each human being but has created life to do what it does in the womb naturally (and sometimes things go wrong in that process) or that God actually does personally knit us together and has purposefully made some with deformities and the like? BTW, I'm not implying that if it's the latter He does it because of some sin in that person's past life.. I agree that's totally unbiblical.

Do you really think that God causes birth defects? That He deliberately causes a baby's skull to not form, such as an anencephalic baby?

Find your answer, then answer this: Do you think He is completely aloof and unaware of what is happening?

Quote from: Lively Stone on Fri Aug 17, 2012 - 23:50:19

Quote from: raggthyme76 on Fri Aug 17, 2012 - 23:43:04
Lively Stone,

I do NOT believe the same as funguy here but this conversation gives me good opportunity to ask something I have genuinely wondered for some time. You said God does not make babies deformed but that it's a result of the fall. Most Christians believe God actually forms every person in the womb, so how is it that you can say that He doesn't make some blind or lame, or with their organs on the outside of their body, or with other deformities? Wouldn't it be only one of the following: He doesn't actually form each human being but has created life to do what it does in the womb naturally (and sometimes things go wrong in that process) or that God actually does personally knit us together and has purposefully made some with deformities and the like? BTW, I'm not implying that if it's the latter He does it because of some sin in that person's past life.. I agree that's totally unbiblical.

Do you really think that God causes birth defects? That He deliberately causes a baby's skull to not form, such as an anencephalic baby?

Find your answer, then answer this: Do you think He is completely aloof and unaware of what is happening?

Do you believe God knits each and every individual in the womb? And if He does, doesn't that mean He forms some with all their parts in order and others not? I was really just trying to point out that if a person quotes "before I formed you in the womb, I knew you" saying God actually forms the child within the mother then they must accept that He makes some diseased, disabled and deformed for His own purposes.

I personally disagree with that view.. I don't believe God forms the baby. I believe He created the means by which nature takes it's course, and sometimes things go wrong... yet He knows exactly what will happen and He allows it. I don't understand why, His ways are beyond me.. it's kind of along the same lines as how He doesn't intervene when innocent children are abused in every horrid way they are. I know He could, and He may in some cases, but He doesn't in others. I've had to accept that I will never understand why this is, this side of heaven.

Quote from: raggthyme76 on Sat Aug 18, 2012 - 03:27:02

Quote from: Lively Stone on Fri Aug 17, 2012 - 23:50:19

Quote from: raggthyme76 on Fri Aug 17, 2012 - 23:43:04
Lively Stone,

I do NOT believe the same as funguy here but this conversation gives me good opportunity to ask something I have genuinely wondered for some time. You said God does not make babies deformed but that it's a result of the fall. Most Christians believe God actually forms every person in the womb, so how is it that you can say that He doesn't make some blind or lame, or with their organs on the outside of their body, or with other deformities? Wouldn't it be only one of the following: He doesn't actually form each human being but has created life to do what it does in the womb naturally (and sometimes things go wrong in that process) or that God actually does personally knit us together and has purposefully made some with deformities and the like? BTW, I'm not implying that if it's the latter He does it because of some sin in that person's past life.. I agree that's totally unbiblical.

Do you really think that God causes birth defects? That He deliberately causes a baby's skull to not form, such as an anencephalic baby?

Find your answer, then answer this: Do you think He is completely aloof and unaware of what is happening?

Do you believe God knits each and every individual in the womb? And if He does, doesn't that mean He forms some with all their parts in order and others not? I was really just trying to point out that if a person quotes "before I formed you in the womb, I knew you" saying God actually forms the child within the mother then they must accept that He makes some diseased, disabled and deformed for His own purposes.

God is the father of all living things. He set it all in motion. He is neither clueless nor unaware of anything that goes on. Infirmities are not the result of HIS handiwork!

QuoteI personally disagree with that view.. I don't believe God forms the baby. I believe He created the means by which nature takes it's course, and sometimes things go wrong... yet He knows exactly what will happen and He allows it. I don't understand why, His ways are beyond me.. it's kind of along the same lines as how He doesn't intervene when innocent children are abused in every horrid way they are. I know He could, and He may in some cases, but He doesn't in others. I've had to accept that I will never understand why this is, this side of heaven.

I agree with that, yet I believe the only way God intervenes in the natural world is if the righteous intercede.

Quote from: Lively Stone on Sat Aug 18, 2012 - 03:45:00

Quote from: raggthyme76 on Sat Aug 18, 2012 - 03:27:02

Quote from: Lively Stone on Fri Aug 17, 2012 - 23:50:19

Quote from: raggthyme76 on Fri Aug 17, 2012 - 23:43:04
Lively Stone,

I do NOT believe the same as funguy here but this conversation gives me good opportunity to ask something I have genuinely wondered for some time. You said God does not make babies deformed but that it's a result of the fall. Most Christians believe God actually forms every person in the womb, so how is it that you can say that He doesn't make some blind or lame, or with their organs on the outside of their body, or with other deformities? Wouldn't it be only one of the following: He doesn't actually form each human being but has created life to do what it does in the womb naturally (and sometimes things go wrong in that process) or that God actually does personally knit us together and has purposefully made some with deformities and the like? BTW, I'm not implying that if it's the latter He does it because of some sin in that person's past life.. I agree that's totally unbiblical.

Do you really think that God causes birth defects? That He deliberately causes a baby's skull to not form, such as an anencephalic baby?

Find your answer, then answer this: Do you think He is completely aloof and unaware of what is happening?

Do you believe God knits each and every individual in the womb? And if He does, doesn't that mean He forms some with all their parts in order and others not? I was really just trying to point out that if a person quotes "before I formed you in the womb, I knew you" saying God actually forms the child within the mother then they must accept that He makes some diseased, disabled and deformed for His own purposes.

God is the father of all living things. He set it all in motion. He is neither clueless nor unaware of anything that goes on. Infirmities are not the result of HIS handiwork!

QuoteI personally disagree with that view.. I don't believe God forms the baby. I believe He created the means by which nature takes it's course, and sometimes things go wrong... yet He knows exactly what will happen and He allows it. I don't understand why, His ways are beyond me.. it's kind of along the same lines as how He doesn't intervene when innocent children are abused in every horrid way they are. I know He could, and He may in some cases, but He doesn't in others. I've had to accept that I will never understand why this is, this side of heaven.

I agree with that, yet I believe the only way God intervenes in the natural world is if the righteous intercede.

Everything that happens to us is according to God's plan, as a consequence of our last lives...

Jeremiah 18
The word which came to Jeremiah from the Lord, saying: 2 "Arise and go down to the potter's house, and there I will cause you to hear My words." 3 Then I went down to the potter's house, and there he was, making something at the wheel. 4 And the vessel that he made of clay was marred in the hand of the potter; so he made it again into another vessel, as it seemed good to the potter to make.

5 Then the word of the Lord came to me, saying: 6 "O house of Israel, can I not do with you as this potter?" says the Lord. "Look, as the clay is in the potter's hand, so are you in My hand, O house of Israel! 7 The instant I speak concerning a nation and concerning a kingdom, to pluck up, to pull down, and to destroy it, 8 if that nation against whom I have spoken turns from its evil, I will relent of the disaster that I thought to bring upon it. 9 And the instant I speak concerning a nation and concerning a kingdom, to build and to plant it, 10 if it does evil in My sight so that it does not obey My voice, then I will relent concerning the good with which I said I would benefit it.

11 "Now therefore, speak to the men of Judah and to the inhabitants of Jerusalem, saying, 'Thus says the Lord: "Behold, I am fashioning a disaster and devising a plan against you. Return now every one from his evil way, and make your ways and your doings good."'"

and this:
Romans 9:21
Does not the Potter have power over the clay, from the same lump to make one vessel for honor and another for dishonor?

Just as the Natural man comes first, and then the Spiritual, so God formed the First Adam from clay, from below, and the Last Adam (Christ Jesus) of Spirit from above.  To be IN Christ IS to walk ion the Spirit of Christ, for HE IS the Resurrection!

And God is Sovereign, and He's got the whole world in His Hands!