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The Bible clearly gives the reasons and that healing is promised.

Demon possession/oppression can be a cause of sickness. Jesus cast out many demons and the result was healing. See also 2 Corinthians 7:1 for Christians needing deliverance.

  Sin is how sickness came into the world so it follows that if a believer sins and refuses all correction from God then He can chasten with sickness. Repentance brings healing.
  The healing of the sickness, not the sickness, is for the glory of God. John 9:1-3

Christians can be ill and stay ill from ignorance of the healing Jesus provided in the atonement.

Everyone gets the measure of faith from God but it is the believers responsibility to grow and exercise that faith (Romans 10:17 and Jude 20). If that responsibility is not met healing can be elusive. God can allow it to send that message of our responsibility if all else fails.

They can stay ill because they do not know what Bible faith is Hebrews 11, or how to put it to work James 2:18-26 and Mark 11:24 to receive healing. No one gets ANYTHING from God unless they exercise Bible faith. The first step is coming to God in child like trust being positive of His will in the matter based on His word.

   Sickness can simply be a trial to defeat the devil, glorify God, and refine the believer's faithfulness and character (see James 1:2-4, 1 Peter 1:6-7) which is why there is often a period of time between asking and receiving by faith and the manifestation of the healing (Mark 11:24).
Christians get sick and stay sick for abusing their bodies. Praying over ones food is VERY important for obvious reasons. It keeps us safe from all the "stuff" in it.
  Disobedience, unforgiveness, the negative things we say about ourselves, wanting to be sick to use it for control, sympathy, a hobby, ect.; involvement in the occult by Christians i.e. horoscope, ouija board, "white" witchcraft, fortunetelling, magic practices, water witching (water divining), Eastern religion like yoga all can and do result in getting sick and staying sick.
  There is a culture or climate of unbelief that is in the churches which hinders those who want to trust Jesus for healing by faith from doing so and hinders the work of healing miracles by the Holy Spirit.
  James 5:14-15 requires the elders to pray the prayer of faith to see the sick healed. If they are not healed then the elders did not meet their responsibility. God did not fail. They did. It is the responsibility for the sick to call for them as their first resort for healing and after that prayer their only resort.
All these reasons for failing to receive healing are given in the Bible. We have had to deal with many of them in our own lives and in the lives of the numerous people we have ministered healing/deliverance to. After the issues were resolved by direction of the Holy Spirit, prayer, fasting and seeking God in His word healing came. Some sadly were not resolved, often because of pride.

Your post is long personally too long for me to read.

You might get more responses if you put bullet points or shorten it up.

QuoteAll these reasons for failing to receive healing are given in the Bible. We have had to deal with many of them in our own lives and in the lives of the numerous people we have ministered healing/deliverance to. After the issues were resolved by direction of the Holy Spirit, prayer, fasting and seeking God in His word healing came. Some sadly were not resolved, often because of pride.

Of course, it could be that everybody dies.


There is no guarantee given in Scripture that your bladder cancer is going to be healed, or that your missing left arm will re-grow.


Levels of faith or not.


It's too easy to blame my failure to heal you on your pride, or lack of faith, or insufficient prayer.


Everybody dies.

Quote from: lesjude on Thu Jan 17, 2013 - 11:26:29
The Bible clearly gives the reasons and that healing is promised.

Demon possession/oppression can be a cause of sickness. Jesus cast out many demons and the result was healing. See also 2 Corinthians 7:1 for Christians needing deliverance.

  Sin is how sickness came into the world so it follows that if a believer sins and refuses all correction from God then He can chasten with sickness. Repentance brings healing.
  The healing of the sickness, not the sickness, is for the glory of God. John 9:1-3

Christians can be ill and stay ill from ignorance of the healing Jesus provided in the atonement.

Everyone gets the measure of faith from God but it is the believers responsibility to grow and exercise that faith (Romans 10:17 and Jude 20). If that responsibility is not met healing can be elusive. God can allow it to send that message of our responsibility if all else fails.

They can stay ill because they do not know what Bible faith is Hebrews 11, or how to put it to work James 2:18-26 and Mark 11:24 to receive healing. No one gets ANYTHING from God unless they exercise Bible faith. The first step is coming to God in child like trust being positive of His will in the matter based on His word.

   Sickness can simply be a trial to defeat the devil, glorify God, and refine the believer's faithfulness and character (see James 1:2-4, 1 Peter 1:6-7) which is why there is often a period of time between asking and receiving by faith and the manifestation of the healing (Mark 11:24).
Christians get sick and stay sick for abusing their bodies. Praying over ones food is VERY important for obvious reasons. It keeps us safe from all the "stuff" in it.
  Disobedience, unforgiveness, the negative things we say about ourselves, wanting to be sick to use it for control, sympathy, a hobby, ect.; involvement in the occult by Christians i.e. horoscope, ouija board, "white" witchcraft, fortunetelling, magic practices, water witching (water divining), Eastern religion like yoga all can and do result in getting sick and staying sick.
  There is a culture or climate of unbelief that is in the churches which hinders those who want to trust Jesus for healing by faith from doing so and hinders the work of healing miracles by the Holy Spirit.
  James 5:14-15 requires the elders to pray the prayer of faith to see the sick healed. If they are not healed then the elders did not meet their responsibility. God did not fail. They did. It is the responsibility for the sick to call for them as their first resort for healing and after that prayer their only resort.
All these reasons for failing to receive healing are given in the Bible. We have had to deal with many of them in our own lives and in the lives of the numerous people we have ministered healing/deliverance to. After the issues were resolved by direction of the Holy Spirit, prayer, fasting and seeking God in His word healing came. Some sadly were not resolved, often because of pride.

Where does the Bible say that God chastens Christians with sickness?

Quote from: chosenone on Thu Jan 17, 2013 - 15:20:22

Quote from: lesjude on Thu Jan 17, 2013 - 11:26:29
The Bible clearly gives the reasons and that healing is promised.

Demon possession/oppression can be a cause of sickness. Jesus cast out many demons and the result was healing. See also 2 Corinthians 7:1 for Christians needing deliverance.

  Sin is how sickness came into the world so it follows that if a believer sins and refuses all correction from God then He can chasten with sickness. Repentance brings healing.
  The healing of the sickness, not the sickness, is for the glory of God. John 9:1-3

Christians can be ill and stay ill from ignorance of the healing Jesus provided in the atonement.

Everyone gets the measure of faith from God but it is the believers responsibility to grow and exercise that faith (Romans 10:17 and Jude 20). If that responsibility is not met healing can be elusive. God can allow it to send that message of our responsibility if all else fails.

They can stay ill because they do not know what Bible faith is Hebrews 11, or how to put it to work James 2:18-26 and Mark 11:24 to receive healing. No one gets ANYTHING from God unless they exercise Bible faith. The first step is coming to God in child like trust being positive of His will in the matter based on His word.

   Sickness can simply be a trial to defeat the devil, glorify God, and refine the believer's faithfulness and character (see James 1:2-4, 1 Peter 1:6-7) which is why there is often a period of time between asking and receiving by faith and the manifestation of the healing (Mark 11:24).
Christians get sick and stay sick for abusing their bodies. Praying over ones food is VERY important for obvious reasons. It keeps us safe from all the "stuff" in it.
  Disobedience, unforgiveness, the negative things we say about ourselves, wanting to be sick to use it for control, sympathy, a hobby, ect.; involvement in the occult by Christians i.e. horoscope, ouija board, "white" witchcraft, fortunetelling, magic practices, water witching (water divining), Eastern religion like yoga all can and do result in getting sick and staying sick.
  There is a culture or climate of unbelief that is in the churches which hinders those who want to trust Jesus for healing by faith from doing so and hinders the work of healing miracles by the Holy Spirit.
  James 5:14-15 requires the elders to pray the prayer of faith to see the sick healed. If they are not healed then the elders did not meet their responsibility. God did not fail. They did. It is the responsibility for the sick to call for them as their first resort for healing and after that prayer their only resort.
All these reasons for failing to receive healing are given in the Bible. We have had to deal with many of them in our own lives and in the lives of the numerous people we have ministered healing/deliverance to. After the issues were resolved by direction of the Holy Spirit, prayer, fasting and seeking God in His word healing came. Some sadly were not resolved, often because of pride.

Where does the Bible say that God chastens Christians with sickness?

Acts 5:1-11, 1 Corinthians 5:5, 2 Chronicles 16:10-13, 1 Corinthians 11:27-34, 2 Samuel 12:1-23.

How about

Job 33v19....
though v9 -30 would benefit those who think they already have it made.

QuoteHow about

Job 33v19....
though v9 -30 would benefit those who think they already have it made.

[/quote]
Here is what God said about those verses:
Job 42:7

New King James Version (NKJV)

7 And so it was, after the Lord had spoken these words to Job, that the Lord said to Eliphaz the Temanite, "My wrath is aroused against you and your two friends, for you have not spoken of Me what is right, as My servant Job has.

To Lesjude,

Are you are saying all people can be healed of every affliction if they have enough faith?  I just want to make sure I am understanding you? 

Denise, a sister in Christ

Quote from: Denise on Fri Apr 05, 2013 - 16:32:22
To Lesjude,

Are you are saying all people can be healed of every affliction if they have enough faith?  I just want to make sure I am understanding you? 

Denise, a sister in Christ

It hasn't to do with volume of faith, but quality of faith...like the faith of the mustard seed, which is tiny but produces a strong, vibrant, indomitable product.

Quote from: Denise on Fri Apr 05, 2013 - 16:32:22
To Lesjude,

Are you are saying all people can be healed of every affliction if they have enough faith?  I just want to make sure I am understanding you? 

Denise, a sister in Christ

There are numerous ways the Bible says people can be healed: 1 John 5:14-15, Matthew 18:19, Mark 11:24, Mark 16:18, 1 Corinthians 12:9b and 10a as well as Romans 10:9-10 because physical healing is included in the meaning of the verb save, noun salvation. Please read these and decide for yourself if faith is necessary for healing. Notice the Bible gives no exceptions from God's side to healing.
The Bible says that everyone who is born again is given a measure of faith which Jesus says (a mustard seed) is enough to do anything required IF it is used as the Bible instructs, and other clearly stated conditions are met.

I know what I believe but I wanted to know what you are saying/believe?  It sounds like yes, you believe that anyone who has enough faith (even the size of a mustard seed) yes, they can be healed.  Ok, and yes, there are 4 basic parts of the human body that can be healed, spiritual, mental, emotional and physical.

So then this thread is about healing of all those areas, or I mean, whatever area is in need of healing. So are you saying that anyone who has enough faith will be healed?

Denise, a sister in Christ

Quote from: Denise on Fri Apr 05, 2013 - 19:17:26
I know what I believe but I wanted to know what you are saying/believe?  It sounds like yes, you believe that anyone who has enough faith (even the size of a mustard seed) yes, they can be healed.  Ok, and yes, there are 4 basic parts of the human body that can be healed, spiritual, mental, emotional and physical.

So then this thread is about healing of all those areas, or I mean, whatever area is in need of healing. So are you saying that anyone who has enough faith will be healed?

Denise, a sister in Christ

I think you missed some things in the scriptures I gave. However scripture says that faith is the fundamental basis for healing, either the person's own or someone who has faith. Yes, all can be healed with no exceptions only conditions and the primary condition is BIBLE faith Mark 11:24, Hebrews 11:1.http://youtu.be/IzjbR5g7Cx8

It's not about how much faith one has. It's about applying, exercising and releasing  the faith you have been given.

Ok, so what I don't understand about that interpretation is if that were true why are there not 2000 year old people walking around, at all?  Has no one enough faith?  Isn't aging a disease?  I believe that all disease is due to the "fall".  What about a faith-healer that dies, of a disease or otherwise?  Why does a faith-healer wear glasses if he is a true faith-healer?

Also, my take on Jesus healing many, but not all, is that He could have healed EVERYONE with one word but He didn't, why not? Why was Paul not healed of his affliction?  He asked God 3 times.  Did he not have enough faith?

Now if I have misunderstood your post, please forgive me.  I am taking it this way so you can correct me if I am wrong.  I am seeing in your post christians that die of a disease did not have enough faith to be healed.

What I say is that for me, a person that praises God in heaven, even though He has not healed them from cancer or a child dies and is not healed, has more faith, way more then a mustard seed.  It is easy to jump up and down when we are healed, but still keep faith when we are not?  How about the Lord giveth and the Lord taketh away, blessed be the name of the Lord.

God can heal, anything!  But it is His call and I don't question it.

Denise, a sister in Christ

Quote from: Denise on Fri Apr 05, 2013 - 19:48:52
Ok, so what I don't understand about that interpretation is if that were true why are there not 2000 year old people walking around, at all?  Has no one enough faith?  Isn't aging a disease?  I believe that all disease is due to the "fall".  What about a faith-healer that dies, of a disease or otherwise?  Why does a faith-healer wear glasses if he is a true faith-healer?

Also, my take on Jesus healing many, but not all, is that He could have healed EVERYONE with one word but He didn't, why not? Why was Paul not healed of his affliction?  He asked God 3 times.  Did he not have enough faith?

Now if I have misunderstood your post, please forgive me.  I am taking it this way so you can correct me if I am wrong.  I am seeing in your post christians that die of a disease did not have enough faith to be healed.

What I say is that for me, a person that praises God in heaven, even though He has not healed them from cancer or a child dies and is not healed, has more faith, way more then a mustard seed.  It is easy to jump up and down when we are healed, but still keep faith when we are not?  How about the Lord giveth and the Lord taketh away, blessed be the name of the Lord.

God can heal, anything!  But it is His call and I don't question it.

Denise, a sister in Christ

Paul was not afflicted with a sickness. Paul would have known how to overcome any sickness, so it wasn't sickness. Affliction does not necessarily refer to sickness---he refers to insult, persecution, being robbed, shipwrecked and beaten. Paul's affliction was the suffering of persecution at the had of a demonic force sent to stir up opposition against Paul during his ministry, so that he would not be overly exalted because of the greatness of the revelation given him.

Quote

Quote from: Denise on Fri Apr 05, 2013 - 19:48:52
Ok, so what I don't understand about that interpretation is if that were true why are there not 2000 year old people walking around, at all? Has no one enough faith?

The promise in the Bible is 70 years to 80 years. Psalm 91 says "satisfy with long life". Be it to us according to our faith,

QuoteIsn't aging a disease?

It does not have to be. Psalm 103:1-5 and Isaiah 40:31, Deuteronomy 34:7 keep in mind the NT is a BETTER covenant with BETTER promises. Again what are you willing to believe for.

QuoteI believe that all disease is due to the "fall".

Sin is the basis for all disease. However 2 Corinthians 5:17 is true IF you believe it in your in heart.

QuoteWhat about a faith-healer that dies, of a disease or otherwise? 

I know of some who have. That does not make them any proof that God does not always heal if the conditions are met anymore then saying Moses was not allowed to go into the promised land indicates he lacked faith or was not a man pf God.
W

Quotehy does a faith-healer wear glasses if he is a true faith-healer?

I know of at least one personally who has seen the dead raised 500 times in his ministry, every part of the body healed or recreated, been raised from the dead twice himself, and he wears glasses. Pray for him.

Quote
Also, my take on Jesus healing many, but not all, is that He could have healed EVERYONE with one word but He didn't, why not?

Jesus healed ALL that came to Him plus those He was sent to.

QuoteWhy was Paul not healed of his affliction?  He asked God 3 times.  Did he not have enough faith?

Paul's thorn was not a sickness. Please do not confuse a messenger of Satan sent to buffet Paul with Galatians 6:14-15. Thorn in the flesh is never used in scripture to speak of a sickness in OT or NT. See Numbers 33:55, Joshua 23:13, and Judges 2:3.
See 2 Corinthians 12:7. The word in the Greek for messenger, aggelos, never refers to a sickness or disease, but a person or personality. Paul also tells why the person/personality was sent. Most do not qualify for the thorn.
2 Corinthians 12:7

New King James Version (NKJV)

The Thorn in the Flesh

7 And lest I should be exalted above measure by the abundance of the revelations, a thorn in the flesh was given to me, a messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I be exalted above measure.
The result of this messenger from Satan was all the violent persecutiom against Paul. This is in keeping with what the meaning is in both OT and NT.
2 Corinthians 12:9

New King James Version (NKJV)

9 And He said to me, "My grace is sufficient for you, for My strength is made perfect in weakness." Therefore most gladly I will rather boast in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.


Paul refers to his weakness meaning his own abilities to withstand the violent persecution i.e. beatings and being stoned do cause physical issues that could take time to heal (part of the thorn), travel, and preaching/teaching the gospel with signs following without the Holy Spirit. Note he contrasts weakness and strength not sickness and health. Here is where he boasted. Note sickness is not included. 2 Corinthians 11:22-32.
If fact in verse 30 infirmities is translated accurately as weaknesses.


Galatians 4:14-15

New King James Version (NKJV)

14 And my trial which was in my flesh you did not despise or reject, but you received me as an angel of God, even as Christ Jesus. 15 What[a] then was the blessing you enjoyed? For I bear you witness that, if possible, you would have plucked out your own eyes and given them to me.

These verses cannot be referring to the thorn in the flesh because it is the Greek aorist tense which makes it clear that the issue in question has ceased to exist. The "thorn" was not taken away. Notice the use of "was", past tense, meaning Paul was healed of what ever it was. The Bible does not say a believer will not get sick, but that if they do Jesus will heal them.
The phrase pluck out your eyes is a figure of speech like give you the shirt off my back. Even if it does refer to a disease Paul refers to it as cured/healed. Galatians 6:11 the word comes from the Greek pelikos which is used in the Septuagint in Zechariah 2:2 meaning length/width. In Galatians 6:11 it is not the size of the letters but its length.

QuoteNow if I have misunderstood your post, please forgive me.  I am taking it this way so you can correct me if I am wrong.  I am seeing in your post christians that die of a disease did not have enough faith to be healed.

Please read the OP again because I gave several other reasons.

QuoteWhat I say is that for me, a person that praises God in heaven, even though He has not healed them from cancer or a child dies and is not healed, has more faith, way more then a mustard seed.  It is easy to jump up and down when we are healed, but still keep faith when we are not?  How about the Lord giveth and the Lord taketh away, blessed be the name of the Lord.

God can heal, anything!  But it is His call and I don't question it.

Denise, a sister in Christ

Having enough faith does not mean they exercise it for healing. Most see the same "exceptions" as you do and refuse to pay the cost to settle God's will on the matter of healing, and trust Him ALONE for what He makes an ABSOLUTE promise to do IF His conditions are met. They are easily met.
"The Lord gives and the Lord takes away..." is from Job. Job trusted God by grace through faith to heal and restore with no Bible and no written promises for anything only faith in the integrity and character of God. It seems most who have the Bible and God's absolute promises have no faith in God's character and integrity to keep His word. God healed and restored Job.
  You see there is a cost to be paid to be trained by the Holy Spirit in Bible faith, see Hebrews chapter 11. Most it seems will not pay it.  Will you? We have and lived it for over 35 years. http://www.gracecentered.com/christian_forums/introductions/our-testimonynormal-christianity/msg1054704961/#msg1054704961

Ok, well,  I am not convinced that people can be healed of any disease if they just have enough faith. I will depend on God to continue to teach me all things He would have me know,

Denise, a sister in Christ

Quote from: Denise on Fri Apr 05, 2013 - 21:05:13
Ok, well,  I am not convinced that people can be healed of any disease if they just have enough faith. I will depend on God to continue to teach me all things He would have me know,

Denise, a sister in Christ

You're right, enough faith is not the issue. What is the issue is that it is released.

I'm not finished with this thread but I prayed this a.m. and started to read His Word, seek out each verse LS posted and other information like Pauls thorn.

I respect the fact you both believe certain things about God's Word.  I just get an uneasy feeling about some of your stuff.  I choose to believe this is either some sort of stubbornous in me that refuses to "see" what God may be showing me, where I am wrong about you and what you preach, or, it is discernment which I may or may not have that gift.  So I do know what to do when these things come up, pray and seek Him with all my heart which I am doing now. 

This is a good thread for me because again, it has caused me to get closer to the Lord and seek Him as I already mentioned.  So I thank you both for your posts/replies,

A sister in Christ, Denise
PS I can't recall now if I posted that I do believe in healing, obviously, that is clear in God's Word, also faith (because of your faith you are healed)  I also understand the verse that speak of measure of faith given to each, and the exercising of that faith.  God will reveal more as I have asked Him to as I do not want to be deceived or ignorant of His Word.

Quote from: Denise on Sat Apr 06, 2013 - 12:54:39
I'm not finished with this thread but I prayed this a.m. and started to read His Word, seek out each verse LS posted and other information like Pauls thorn.

I respect the fact you both believe certain things about God's Word.  I just get an uneasy feeling about some of your stuff.  I choose to believe this is either some sort of stubbornous in me that refuses to "see" what God may be showing me, where I am wrong about you and what you preach, or, it is discernment which I may or may not have that gift.  So I do know what to do when these things come up, pray and seek Him with all my heart which I am doing now. 

This is a good thread for me because again, it has caused me to get closer to the Lord and seek Him as I already mentioned.  So I thank you both for your posts/replies,

A sister in Christ, Denise
PS I can't recall now if I posted that I do believe in healing, obviously, that is clear in God's Word, also faith (because of your faith you are healed)  I also understand the verse that speak of measure of faith given to each, and the exercising of that faith.  God will reveal more as I have asked Him to as I do not want to be deceived or ignorant of His Word.

You are being wise to proceed with caution and to consult God's word. It took me a while to come to terms with it as well.

Knowledge is also required to be healed to live on a day by day basis. I believe faith can overcome all problems and that Jesus will not refuse anyone in the perfect time, such as the man who could not walk having faith in the angels to heal him via the pool, but his wait resulted in Jesus showing up.
Paul says to Timothy to drink a little wine to cure the stomach. Either this is relying on knowledge of healing instead of healing hands, or maybe that Paul could not trek over to Timothy to heal him, so knowledge was used to heal.

Quote

Quote from: FireSword on Sat Apr 06, 2013 - 14:43:42
Knowledge is also required to be healed to live on a day by day basis. I believe faith can overcome all problems and that Jesus will not refuse anyone in the perfect time, such as the man who could not walk having faith in the angels to heal him via the pool, but his wait resulted in Jesus showing up.

John 5:1-15.
Please be aware this man was seeking healing from occult means NOT God as were all the others at the pool. It was nothing more than an  Greek style hospital. Also note the first thing he did after his healing was sin in verse 15.

QuotePaul says to Timothy to drink a little wine to cure the stomach. Either this is relying on knowledge of healing instead of healing hands, or maybe that Paul could not trek over to Timothy to heal him, so knowledge was used to heal.

Wine makes a stomach problem worse. More likely Timothy had a problem with with bad water or even "different" water from traveling as happens even today. Wine would be a substitute for drinking so much unsafe water.

Quote from: lesjude on Sat Apr 06, 2013 - 18:05:46

Quote

Quote from: FireSword on Sat Apr 06, 2013 - 14:43:42
Knowledge is also required to be healed to live on a day by day basis. I believe faith can overcome all problems and that Jesus will not refuse anyone in the perfect time, such as the man who could not walk having faith in the angels to heal him via the pool, but his wait resulted in Jesus showing up.

John 5:1-15.
Please be aware this man was seeking healing from occult means NOT God as were all the others at the pool. It was nothing more than an  Greek style hospital. Also note the first thing he did after his healing was sin in verse 15.

QuotePaul says to Timothy to drink a little wine to cure the stomach. Either this is relying on knowledge of healing instead of healing hands, or maybe that Paul could not trek over to Timothy to heal him, so knowledge was used to heal.

Wine makes a stomach problem worse. More likely Timothy had a problem with with bad water or even "different" water from traveling as happens even today. Wine would be a substitute for drinking so much unsafe water.

Correct!

I've heard that before, but is it valid?

Alcohol, tends to cause thirstiness.

Despite faith, everybody dies.

Ergo, measuring your or someone else's faith based on health is a silly preoccupation.

Quote from: FireSword on Mon Apr 08, 2013 - 08:24:33
I've heard that before, but is it valid?

Alcohol, tends to cause thirstiness.

A LITTLE wine for his stomach's sake! It is entirely possible that in all of Timothy's travels the local water of foreign places would have caused many a gastric problem. Substituting a little wine in place of the local water is good advice.

Quote

Quote from: HRoberson on Mon Apr 08, 2013 - 11:29:55
Despite faith, everybody dies.

However a believer does not have to die of some disease or sickness.

QuoteErgo, measuring your or someone else's faith based on health is a silly preoccupation.

God does not think so. Hebrews 11:6
New King James Version (NKJV)
6 But without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him.
Matthew 17:17
New King James Version (NKJV)
17 Then Jesus answered and said, "O faithless and perverse generation, how long shall I be with you? How long shall I bear with you? Bring him here to Me."

Matthew 15:28
New King James Version (NKJV)
28 Then Jesus answered and said to her, "O woman, great is your faith! Let it be to you as you desire." And her daughter was healed from that very hour.

Matthew 9:29-30

New King James Version (NKJV)

29 Then He touched their eyes, saying, "According to your faith let it be to you." 30 And their eyes were opened. And Jesus sternly warned them, saying, "See that no one knows it."
Matthew 9:21-22

New King James Version (NKJV)

21 For she said to herself, "If only I may touch His garment, I shall be made well." 22 But Jesus turned around, and when He saw her He said, "Be of good cheer, daughter; your faith has made you well." And the woman was made well from that hour.

Luke 17:18-19
New King James Version (NKJV)
18 Were there not any found who returned to give glory to God except this foreigner?" 19 And He said to him, "Arise, go your way. Your faith has made you well."

Luke 18:42
New King James Version (NKJV)
42 Then Jesus said to him, "Receive your sight; your faith has made you well."

James 5:14-15

New King James Version (NKJV)

14 Is anyone among you sick? Let him call for the elders of the church, and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord. 15 And the prayer of faith will save the sick, and the Lord will raise him up. And if he has committed sins, he will be forgiven.

People die of disease, accident, or murder.

Disease defined as a progressive deterioration of the body.

Nobody truly dies of old age but failure of body systems--disease.

Quote from: lesjude on Mon Apr 08, 2013 - 18:58:45

Quote

Quote from: HRoberson on Mon Apr 08, 2013 - 11:29:55
Despite faith, everybody dies.

However a believer does not have to die of some disease or sickness.

QuoteErgo, measuring your or someone else's faith based on health is a silly preoccupation.

God does not think so. Hebrews 11:6
New King James Version (NKJV)
6 But without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him.
Matthew 17:17
New King James Version (NKJV)
17 Then Jesus answered and said, "O faithless and perverse generation, how long shall I be with you? How long shall I bear with you? Bring him here to Me."

Matthew 15:28
New King James Version (NKJV)
28 Then Jesus answered and said to her, "O woman, great is your faith! Let it be to you as you desire." And her daughter was healed from that very hour.

Matthew 9:29-30

New King James Version (NKJV)

29 Then He touched their eyes, saying, "According to your faith let it be to you." 30 And their eyes were opened. And Jesus sternly warned them, saying, "See that no one knows it."
Matthew 9:21-22

New King James Version (NKJV)

21 For she said to herself, "If only I may touch His garment, I shall be made well." 22 But Jesus turned around, and when He saw her He said, "Be of good cheer, daughter; your faith has made you well." And the woman was made well from that hour.

Luke 17:18-19
New King James Version (NKJV)
18 Were there not any found who returned to give glory to God except this foreigner?" 19 And He said to him, "Arise, go your way. Your faith has made you well."

Luke 18:42
New King James Version (NKJV)
42 Then Jesus said to him, "Receive your sight; your faith has made you well."

James 5:14-15

New King James Version (NKJV)

14 Is anyone among you sick? Let him call for the elders of the church, and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord. 15 And the prayer of faith will save the sick, and the Lord will raise him up. And if he has committed sins, he will be forgiven.

AMEN!

Quote

Quote from: HRoberson on Mon Apr 08, 2013 - 19:04:49
People die of disease, accident, or murder.

Believers do not have to die from any of those causes. Read Psalm 91. Be it to you according to your FAITH.

QuoteDisease defined as a progressive deterioration of the body.

Nobody truly dies of old age but failure of body systems--disease.

Deuteronomy 34:7
New King James Version (NKJV)
7 Moses was one hundred and twenty years old when he died. His eyes were not dim nor his natural vigor diminished.
Psalm 103:5
New King James Version (NKJV)
5 Who satisfies your mouth with good things,
So that your youth is renewed like the eagle's.

Be it to all according to our FAITH.

Quote from: lesjude on Mon Apr 08, 2013 - 19:13:13

Quote

Quote from: HRoberson on Mon Apr 08, 2013 - 19:04:49
People die of disease, accident, or murder.

Believers do not have to die from any of those causes. Read Psalm 91. Be it to you according to your FAITH.

QuoteDisease defined as a progressive deterioration of the body.

Nobody truly dies of old age but failure of body systems--disease.

Deuteronomy 34:7
New King James Version (NKJV)
7 Moses was one hundred and twenty years old when he died. His eyes were not dim nor his natural vigor diminished.
Psalm 103:5
New King James Version (NKJV)
5 Who satisfies your mouth with good things,
So that your youth is renewed like the eagle's.

Be it to all according to our FAITH.

Yes, and the Man After God's Own Heart died a weakened, cold man. Want to swap more proof texts?

Quote from: HRoberson on Mon Apr 08, 2013 - 19:29:25

Quote from: lesjude on Mon Apr 08, 2013 - 19:13:13

Quote

Quote from: HRoberson on Mon Apr 08, 2013 - 19:04:49
People die of disease, accident, or murder.

Believers do not have to die from any of those causes. Read Psalm 91. Be it to you according to your FAITH.

QuoteDisease defined as a progressive deterioration of the body.

Nobody truly dies of old age but failure of body systems--disease.

Deuteronomy 34:7
New King James Version (NKJV)
7 Moses was one hundred and twenty years old when he died. His eyes were not dim nor his natural vigor diminished.
Psalm 103:5
New King James Version (NKJV)
5 Who satisfies your mouth with good things,
So that your youth is renewed like the eagle's.

Be it to all according to our FAITH.

Yes, and the Man After God's Own Heart died a weakened, cold man. Want to swap more proof texts?

It seems you missed the faith part and the fact that the NT is a better covenant based on better promises.

You're the one who brought up Moses.

Oh and one more reason our bodies die, is that our materials are made of this world, which until the tree of life and her leaves are released will not heal Gods earthly creation.

Quote from: FireSword on Tue Apr 09, 2013 - 11:16:56
Oh and one more reason our bodies die, is that our materials are made of this world, which until the tree of life and her leaves are released will not heal Gods earthly creation.

Yet we are healed by His stripes.