Christian Forums

Quote from: DaveW on Fri Aug 23, 2013 - 09:27:47

Quote from: PreaherOfTruth on Fri Aug 23, 2013 - 08:05:08
1. How can anyone believe that it is or ever has been the will of God for any woman to be a Pastor or a Bishop in the Church?

Is that your ONLY  point - to put down women?

My dad at least had opinions on other subjects. Speaking of my dad - I asked you if you believed women were the slaves of every man and you never answered.

Reply #103 on: Yesterday at 05:00:40 PM »

Again I have proved you to be incorrect.

Here is what you do.  Find the strongest 1 statement that you can find of all the things you have said on here against what i have said. Pick any one you can prove in a debate with me.  Then we will debate it. Till one proves the other.

Quote from: PreaherOfTruth on Fri Aug 23, 2013 - 09:48:05
Reply #103 on: Yesterday at 05:00:40 PM »

Again I have proved you to be incorrect.

You proved that I need better glasses.  I missed that post. 
Thank you for making a simple straight forward answer.

And I am GLAD you do not agree with him.  He ordered every woman around like they were his personal servants.  It was quite embarrassing.  My brother in law stood up to him when he tried ordering around my sister. (his own grown daughter)  I think eventually he stopped the activity but did not change his belief.

Quote from: PreaherOfTruth on Fri Aug 23, 2013 - 09:51:54
Here is what you do.  Find the strongest 1 statement that you can find of all the things you have said on here against what i have said. Pick any one you can prove in a debate with me.  Then we will debate it. Till one proves the other.

An impossible task if you cannot agree on a common interpretation of the scriptures involved.

Quote from: DaveW on Fri Aug 23, 2013 - 10:03:35

Quote from: PreaherOfTruth on Fri Aug 23, 2013 - 09:51:54
Here is what you do.  Find the strongest 1 statement that you can find of all the things you have said on here against what i have said. Pick any one you can prove in a debate with me.  Then we will debate it. Till one proves the other.

An impossible task if you cannot agree on a common interpretation of the scriptures involved.

Al right we will take the first verse and go down the line one by one,,,one at a time.

I believe this to be exactly as it is written word for word.

Tell me the common interpretation of this verse. Post it.

Genesis, Chapter 3
16: Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.

QuoteAl right we will take the first verse and go down the line one by one,,,one at a time.

I believe this to be exactly as it is written word for word.

Tell me the common interpretation of this verse. Post it.

Genesis, Chapter 3
16: Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.

That is a curse on both man and woman.

1 - physical curse in childbirth (humans have the most difficult of all species)

2 - the wife will have sexual desires for her husband. (ona in Hebrew)

3 - the man is responsible TO GOD for every wrong thing his wife does.

That third one is demonstrated in Gen 18:

9 Then they said to him, "Where is Sarah your wife?" And he said, "There, in the tent."
10 He said, "I will surely return to you at this time next year; and behold, Sarah your wife will have a son." And Sarah was listening at the tent door, which was behind him.
11 Now Abraham and Sarah were old, advanced in age; Sarah was past childbearing.
12 Sarah laughed to herself, saying, "After I have become old, shall I have pleasure, my lord being old also?"
13 And the Lord said to Abraham, "Why did Sarah laugh, saying, 'Shall I indeed bear a child, when I am so old?'
14 Is anything too difficult for the Lord? At the appointed time I will return to you, at this time next year, and Sarah will have a son."

Who got called on the carpet for Sarah laughing?  Abe.  NOT Sarah until she came out of the tent in the next verse and lied:

15 Sarah denied it however, saying, "I did not laugh"; for she was afraid. And He said, "No, but you did laugh."

That is what is meant by "rule over."

Quote from: PreaherOfTruth on Fri Aug 23, 2013 - 10:15:50

Quote from: DaveW on Fri Aug 23, 2013 - 10:03:35

Quote from: PreaherOfTruth on Fri Aug 23, 2013 - 09:51:54
Here is what you do.  Find the strongest 1 statement that you can find of all the things you have said on here against what i have said. Pick any one you can prove in a debate with me.  Then we will debate it. Till one proves the other.

An impossible task if you cannot agree on a common interpretation of the scriptures involved.

Al right we will take the first verse and go down the line one by one,,,one at a time.

I believe this to be exactly as it is written word for word.

Tell me the common interpretation of this verse. Post it.

Genesis, Chapter 3
16: Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.

This happened as a result of the fall. Jesus has already restored what was lost in the fall for us as believers.

Husbands are told to love their wives as Christ loves the church. Christ does not treat us as you seem to think men should treat their wives, by belittling, making them seem 'less than', stating they are not as good as them. This is the sort of talk I would expect from muslim men, not Christian ones, and its very sad. I thank God that I know many godly men who treat their wives with love, respect and who encourage them to use their God gives talents and gifts.

Quote from: PreaherOfTruth on Fri Aug 23, 2013 - 06:15:27
The Word of God is the Word of God
in Any Context. It never changes.

This is highly not correct or truth of any kind.


I proved this statement of yours that you made as completely utterly false and yet you still wish to keep on stating it.


Context is king...This expression is used over and over again at even the poorest excuse for a seminary.


Which brings us to another point.


YOU obviously have not ever been to a seminary. You seem to have ignored every teaching that was ever taught at any seminary. Even if they do not teach hermeneutics they still teach counseling skills and discussion skills so that you may reasonably have conversations. Being dismissive and accusative of those you engage in conversation with is always taught to be a complete loss of any and all respect of those you engage.


So, to continue with this ad hominem.
Your name "Preaher of truth" Obviously you wish us to think that you have the role of a pastor at some kind of congregation and your posts have stated as much. But I am wondering the validity of that claim. I am wondering how you consider yourself to have some kind of special skill to actually be able to perform such a task. Your understanding of the scriptures never once takes into account anything more than a very flat superficial reading of select verses. As well as the before mentioned severe lack of people skills...put together these facts point to someone who is self-appointed to the role of pastor and if a congregation exists it must consist of dumb animals who cannot voice their complaints about your preaching style but seem to line up to listen so long as their feed dishes are being filled. Your writing style also is extremely deficient. Where that is not exactly a common trait of being a pastor it is a trademark of someone who is NOT educated very well to begin with especially with any sort of post-secondary education. Whereas your vocabulary and grammar choices tend to lend themselves to somewhere around an 8th grade education lets say for argument that you at least graduated high school.


God is truth. Those that delight in God also delight in truth. Where your statements and declarations of collective theology from scripture have been shown to be in complete opposition to anything that God intended you seem to be extremely reluctant to ever admit that you have ever been wrong. (a possible indication that narcissism is something that you battle regularly)


So...in conclusion....


I find having a battle of wits with someone who is unarmed is not exactly a pleasing experience and not exactly something that I wish to spend a lot of time involving myself with. There is a proverb that speaks to just such a scenario. Maybe if you look for it it can be the subject of your next sermon. 

Quote from: JohnDB on Fri Aug 23, 2013 - 15:52:10

Quote from: PreaherOfTruth on Fri Aug 23, 2013 - 06:15:27
The Word of God is the Word of God
in Any Context. It never changes.

This is highly not correct or truth of any kind.


I proved this statement of yours that you made as completely utterly false and yet you still wish to keep on stating it.


Context is king...This expression is used over and over again at even the poorest excuse for a seminary.


Which brings us to another point.


YOU obviously have not ever been to a seminary. You seem to have ignored every teaching that was ever taught at any seminary. Even if they do not teach hermeneutics they still teach counseling skills and discussion skills so that you may reasonably have conversations. Being dismissive and accusative of those you engage in conversation with is always taught to be a complete loss of any and all respect of those you engage.


So, to continue with this ad hominem.
Your name "Preaher of truth" Obviously you wish us to think that you have the role of a pastor at some kind of congregation and your posts have stated as much. But I am wondering the validity of that claim. I am wondering how you consider yourself to have some kind of special skill to actually be able to perform such a task. Your understanding of the scriptures never once takes into account anything more than a very flat superficial reading of select verses. As well as the before mentioned severe lack of people skills...put together these facts point to someone who is self-appointed to the role of pastor and if a congregation exists it must consist of dumb animals who cannot voice their complaints about your preaching style but seem to line up to listen so long as their feed dishes are being filled. Your writing style also is extremely deficient. Where that is not exactly a common trait of being a pastor it is a trademark of someone who is NOT educated very well to begin with especially with any sort of post-secondary education. Whereas your vocabulary and grammar choices tend to lend themselves to somewhere around an 8th grade education lets say for argument that you at least graduated high school.


God is truth. Those that delight in God also delight in truth. Where your statements and declarations of collective theology from scripture have been shown to be in complete opposition to anything that God intended you seem to be extremely reluctant to ever admit that you have ever been wrong. (a possible indication that narcissism is something that you battle regularly)


So...in conclusion....


I find having a battle of wits with someone who is unarmed is not exactly a pleasing experience and not exactly something that I wish to spend a lot of time involving myself with. There is a proverb that speaks to just such a scenario. Maybe if you look for it it can be the subject of your next sermon.

Am I allowed to tell you what I think of you and your credentials without reprisal?
Yes or no?

Quote from: DaveW on Fri Aug 23, 2013 - 10:29:34

QuoteAl right we will take the first verse and go down the line one by one,,,one at a time.

I believe this to be exactly as it is written word for word.

Tell me the common interpretation of this verse. Post it.

Genesis, Chapter 3
16: Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.

That is a curse on both man and woman.

1 - physical curse in childbirth (humans have the most difficult of all species)

2 - the wife will have sexual desires for her husband. (ona in Hebrew)

3 - the man is responsible TO GOD for every wrong thing his wife does.

That third one is demonstrated in Gen 18:

9 Then they said to him, "Where is Sarah your wife?" And he said, "There, in the tent."
10 He said, "I will surely return to you at this time next year; and behold, Sarah your wife will have a son." And Sarah was listening at the tent door, which was behind him.
11 Now Abraham and Sarah were old, advanced in age; Sarah was past childbearing.
12 Sarah laughed to herself, saying, "After I have become old, shall I have pleasure, my lord being old also?"
13 And the Lord said to Abraham, "Why did Sarah laugh, saying, 'Shall I indeed bear a child, when I am so old?'
14 Is anything too difficult for the Lord? At the appointed time I will return to you, at this time next year, and Sarah will have a son."

Who got called on the carpet for Sarah laughing?  Abe.  NOT Sarah until she came out of the tent in the next verse and lied:

15 Sarah denied it however, saying, "I did not laugh"; for she was afraid. And He said, "No, but you did laugh."

That is what is meant by "rule over."

Your answers for point one and two are covered under this thread: "Re: Your Interpretation of This Bible Verse?  (Non-Traditional Theology)"


Now let us consider this question: "3 - the man is responsible TO GOD for every wrong thing his wife does."

1.  This is not true.  The LORD did not mentioned about Sarah laughing to hold Abraham accountable for her unbelief, but to prove to Abraham that what he promised, he is more than able to perform his promises, and that his power is not limited. You are reading something into the words spoken by LORD through the angel to Abraham to prove your doctrine, that you want  to believe, for whatever reason you want to believe it.  If God was holding Abraham accountable for Sarah's unbelief, then he never punished Abraham for her unbelief, but continue to bless righteous Abraham in his desires to save Lot from the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah. He even went on to praise Abraham in Genesis 18:19, for ruling well his household after him.  He lived a very long life, while Sarah's was much shorter.

2.  Genesis 31~Did God hold Jacob accountable for Rachel stealing her father's false gods?  No, God even warned Laban to take heed and do not touch Jacob as he pursued after him for leaving.

3.  Time will not allow me to mention David, Job, (whose wife said to him curse God and die) and others.

Only if we are in agreement with them as Ananias was with Sapphira in Acts 5~and, if we are slack in allowing them to do things that we know of is against the scriptures. 

RB

God gave his sons dominion over their wives. They rule over them in the Spirit of the Lord.