Christian Forums

Quote from: chosenone on Fri Sep 27, 2013 - 15:54:39
Chuck Swindoll
One way to understand the meaning of the death of Jesus is to imagine a courtroom scene in which we are on trial for our sins and God is the judge. Our sins against God are capital crimes. God Himself is our judge, and according to divine law our crimes deserve the death penalty. Death, in a spiritual sense, means eternal separation from God in unending torment. That's a very serious judgment.

By shedding His blood on the cross, Jesus took the punishment we deserve and offered us His righteousness. When we trust Christ for our salvation, essentially we are making a trade. By faith, we trade our sin and its accompanying death penalty for His righteousness and life.

In theological terms, this is called "substitutionary atonement." Christ died on the cross as our substitute. Without Him, we would suffer the death penalty for our own sins....

The writer to the Hebrews puts it this way: "And according to the Law, one may almost say, all things are cleansed with blood, and without shedding of blood there is no forgiveness" (Hebrews 9:22). For God to forgive our sins, His judgment had to be satisfied and that required the shedding of blood.

Some object, "Shedding blood seems so barbaric. Is it really necessary? Why doesn't God simply forgive us?" Because God is holy, He must judge sin. Would a just and righteous judge let evil go unpunished? At the cross, God poured out His judgment on His Son, satisfying His wrath and making it possible for Him to forgive us. That's why Jesus shed His blood for your sins, my sins, and the sins of the whole world....

God unleashed His wrath on His Son so that we might be spared that awful fate. This is the central message of the cross and the reason for our hope: God forsook His Son so that He might never forsake us. God assures us, "'I will never desert you, nor will I ever forsake you" (Hebrews 13:5). Isn't that a wonderful promise?

Quoting SINNERS, ...not the WORD...  SINNERS support you... the WORD does not.


PEACE...    ...willieH

Quote from: willieH on Fri Sep 27, 2013 - 16:01:05

Quote from: MeMyself on Fri Sep 27, 2013 - 14:18:29Corinthians was written to a Christian congregation. They were by definition of being Christians, saved and not in danger of the fire that will burn away the "works".

In VAIN self-deception do you speak... parroting the words of your particular brand of Christianity, which is a room within a house pathetically divided from the others, and which, amidst its INIQUITY,  ...shall NOT stand -- Matt 7:22-23 -- Matt 12:25 -- Mark 3:24-25

Willie, your posting style lacks a WHOLE LOT of fruit of the Spirit!  I have parroted nothing except try and put the context of verses in order, which was being taken OUT Of context by the person I was addressing.

Quote from: willieH on Fri Sep 27, 2013 - 16:01:05Your very words are "burning away" as you speak... they shall NEVER abide in the Eternal... they are full of vanity, horror, fear and proposed torment, ...the VERY things which PERFECT LOVE CASTS OUT -- 1 John 4:18 -- devoid of GOOD NEWS...


PEACE...  ...willieH

Um...you can keep your version of PEACE!  It includes rudeness, unkindness, false accusations and vanity of thinking you have the right to make personal attacks against people that simply disagree with your theology.

I'll rest in the true peace and love of God.

Quote from: MeMyself on Fri Sep 27, 2013 - 17:37:04

Quote from: willieH on Fri Sep 27, 2013 - 16:01:05

Quote from: MeMyself on Fri Sep 27, 2013 - 14:18:29Corinthians was written to a Christian congregation. They were by definition of being Christians, saved and not in danger of the fire that will burn away the "works".

In VAIN self-deception do you speak... parroting the words of your particular brand of Christianity, which is a room within a house pathetically divided from the others, and which, amidst its INIQUITY,  ...shall NOT stand -- Matt 7:22-23 -- Matt 12:25 -- Mark 3:24-25

Willie, you are a VERY rude person!  I have parroted nothing except try and put the context of verses in order, which was being taken OUT Of context by the person I was addressing.

I think you are RUDE for using that word toward me.  You very likely do not even have a clue as to true "RUDENESS"... go to a biker bar sometime, or maybe a college frat party... or even on a Christian forum... you shall find UNSLAPPED CHEEKS... which use BELITTLING terms such as "rude", in an attempt to assuage the lack of TRUTHFUL BIBLICAL knowledge presently (and in all likelihood, permanently) unavailable to you.


I am a very nice person.  You do NOT at all, "know" me.  Typing letters on a keyboard certainly does not reflect our person even in the slightest, let alone in its totality.  You have no idea who I am, or where I've been, or what I've been through in life... so your summary of me as "rude" is quite out of line... and as applicable to yourself as it is to me.


You are facing the very FIERY danger which you propose is for others.  Thinking that where you stand is somehow positionally better than another... and that THEIR works shall be burned, but that yours are safe (amidst your delusional mindset).

Quote from: MeMyself on Fri Sep 27, 2013 - 17:37:04

Quote from: willieH on Fri Sep 27, 2013 - 16:01:05Your very words are "burning away" as you speak... they shall NEVER abide in the Eternal... they are full of vanity, horror, fear and proposed torment, ...the VERY things which PERFECT LOVE CASTS OUT -- 1 John 4:18 -- devoid of GOOD NEWS...


PEACE...  ...willieH

Um...you can keep your version of PEACE!  It includes rudeness, unkindness, false accusations and vanity of thinking you have the right to make personal attacks against people that simply disagree with your theology.

I'll rest in the true peace and love of God.

It does not surprise me that you OPPOSE me, MeMyself!     If you don't wish to hear what I have to say... then don't respond to my posts... pretty simple. 


There are not "versions" of PEACE... Anyone who actually KNOWS the definition of the word, KNOWS, ..that PEACE is PEACE...   PEACE is the absence of TURMOIL.


If the PEACE of God was actually with you and experienced by you... then you would REFLECT that PEACE... especially in the content of your message which is TOTALLY unPEACEFUL.


(1) - JESUS is the SON of PEACE -- Luke 10:6 --
(2) - YHVH God is the GOD of PEACE -- Rom 15:33 -- Heb 13:20 -- Phil 4:9
(3) - The GOSPEL is the GOSPEL of PEACE -- Rom 10:15 -- Eph 6:15 -- Col 1:20


However your representation of these THREE, ...contains communication that is other than PEACEFUL... your message is filled with DEFEAT, HORROR, HELL, TORMENT, FEAR... all things which are OPPOSED to PEACE.


First...  MeMyself, ...I do not in the least care whether or not you "agree" with my observations.  I do however, care about others which might become tainted by your present observations which are contrary to the GOSPEL of JESUS CHRIST - which is the SALVATION of the WORLD that HE was sent to save -- 1 John 4:14 -- and DID SAVE -- Col 1:20 -- 2 Cor 5:19 -- Rom 5:18-20 -- 1 Tim 4:9-11 -- John 1:29


Second...  I have not attacked you personally... I have spoken out against the fallacies in which you invest your faith.  I do not know you personally and have no inclinations positive or negative toward you on a personal basis. 


I do however OBJECT to your SLANDER of the name of JESUS, as well, to the spread or your fallacies which are SPIRITUALLY CANCEROUS  unto others...


And even MORESO,  ...I do OBJECT to the TAINTING of the Holy name of our LOVING Father YHVH God (which YOU and other propose to be an ETERNAL TORMENTOR of His Creatures), which also part is your doings and sayings...   As you daily on this forum, propose HORROR and TORMENT and FEAR unto those who are created in the image of YHVH ...which was CLEARLY and SCRIPTURALLY condemned as misbehavior by James -- James 3:6-11 -- and is misbehavior in which you shall no doubt continue.


Third...  The Pharisees treated JESUS in the same way you treat me... doesn't matter.   ALL things will end according to the SALVATION which JESUS accomplished of the WORLD that GOD so LOVES, which WILL OCCUR, ...without regard to the fact that YOU REFUSE to see His wonderful and LOVING and PEACEFUL victory.


PEACE...  ...willieH

Quote from: willieH on Fri Sep 27, 2013 - 18:29:01

Quote from: MeMyself on Fri Sep 27, 2013 - 17:37:04

Quote from: willieH on Fri Sep 27, 2013 - 16:01:05

Quote from: MeMyself on Fri Sep 27, 2013 - 14:18:29Corinthians was written to a Christian congregation. They were by definition of being Christians, saved and not in danger of the fire that will burn away the "works".

In VAIN self-deception do you speak... parroting the words of your particular brand of Christianity, which is a room within a house pathetically divided from the others, and which, amidst its INIQUITY,  ...shall NOT stand -- Matt 7:22-23 -- Matt 12:25 -- Mark 3:24-25

Willie, you are a VERY rude person!  I have parroted nothing except try and put the context of verses in order, which was being taken OUT Of context by the person I was addressing.

I think you are RUDE for using that word toward me.

I sensed the Holy Spirit convicting me of my comment and I edited that out. Please forgive me for allowing my buttons to be pushed and reacting rather than responding to your insulting and rude comments.
I DO stand by the fact that you need to learn to season your speech with a LOT of grace!!!  The fruit of the Spirit is not very evident in how you chose to address the people you disagree with.

Quote from: willieH on Fri Sep 27, 2013 - 18:29:01You very likely do not even have a clue as to true "RUDENESS"... go to a biker bar sometime, or maybe a college frat party... or even on a Christian forum... you shall find UNSLAPPED CHEEKS... which use BELITTLING terms such as "rude", in an attempt to assuage the lack of TRUTHFUL BIBLICAL knowledge presently (and in all likelihood, permanently) unavailable to you.

sigh

Quote from: willieH on Fri Sep 27, 2013 - 18:29:01I am a very nice person.  You do NOT at all, "know" me.  Typing letters on a keyboard certainly does not reflect our person even in the slightest, let alone in its totality.  You have no idea who I am, or where I've been, or what I've been through in life... so your summary of me as "rude" is quite out of line... and as applicable to yourself as it is to me.

All we have to go by here is the way we choose to represent ourselves in our posts.  That is why I believe we must be VERY careful in how we word things and keep our comments to the TOPIC and not the person. And, why I apologized earlier for allowing myself to get baited into doing what I do not want to do.

Quote from: willieH on Fri Sep 27, 2013 - 18:29:01You are facing the very FIERY danger which you propose is for others.  Thinking that where you stand is somehow positionally better than another... and that THEIR works shall be burned, but that yours are safe (amidst your delusional mindset).

I do think my works will be burned away...and all that will be left is my Jesus who saved me when I followed the call to confess Him as Lord and testify through prayer that I believed with all my heart that God raised Him from the dead. (Romans 10:9)

You admonish ME saying I know nothing about you and then you jump right back on your high-horse to tell me about my delusional mindset.  You have no right to be so personally attacking in your posting! You do it across the board here and I cannot for the life of me understand why its allowed.

Quote from: willieH on Fri Sep 27, 2013 - 18:29:01

Quote from: MeMyself on Fri Sep 27, 2013 - 17:37:04

Quote from: willieH on Fri Sep 27, 2013 - 16:01:05Your very words are "burning away" as you speak... they shall NEVER abide in the Eternal... they are full of vanity, horror, fear and proposed torment, ...the VERY things which PERFECT LOVE CASTS OUT -- 1 John 4:18 -- devoid of GOOD NEWS...


PEACE...  ...willieH

Um...you can keep your version of PEACE!  It includes rudeness, unkindness, false accusations and vanity of thinking you have the right to make personal attacks against people that simply disagree with your theology.

I'll rest in the true peace and love of God.

It does not surprise me that you OPPOSE me, MeMyself!     If you don't wish to hear what I have to say... then don't respond to my posts... pretty simple. 

Wow.  I don't oppose YOU...what in the world.  This isn't a superhero comic book.

And, as far as not responding to your post, please feel free to do likewise with mine!  When you attack people, you shouldn't be surprised when they respond.

Quote from: willieH on Fri Sep 27, 2013 - 18:29:01There are not "versions" of PEACE... Anyone who actually KNOWS the definition of the word, KNOWS, ..that PEACE is PEACE...   PEACE is the absence of TURMOIL.

But you slap people across the face with your rude posting style and then smugly say "peace" and saunter off.  I've had QUITE enough of that kind of garbage in my life.  Keep it.  Its not peace..its an insult.

Quote from: willieH on Fri Sep 27, 2013 - 18:29:01If the PEACE of God was actually with you and experienced by you... then you would REFLECT that PEACE... especially in the content of your message which is TOTALLY unPEACEFUL.

Are you calling into question that I belong to God?

Also, have you looked into projecting?  Its quite an interesting topic and I think you would benefit from learning about how to avoid it!

Quote from: willieH on Fri Sep 27, 2013 - 18:29:01(1) - JESUS is the SON of PEACE -- Luke 10:6 --
(2) - YHVH God is the GOD of PEACE -- Rom 15:33 -- Heb 13:20 -- Phil 4:9
(3) - The GOSPEL is the GOSPEL of PEACE -- Rom 10:15 -- Eph 6:15 -- Col 1:20


However your representation of these THREE, ...contains communication that is other than PEACEFUL... your message is filled with DEFEAT, HORROR, HELL, TORMENT, FEAR... all things which are OPPOSED to PEACE.

Not at all!  My posts testify of the good news that Christ died for all, and that when we surrender to Him, call upon His name for salvation, there is GREAT joy, peace and blessings immeasurable at our disposal!!!

Quote from: willieH on Fri Sep 27, 2013 - 18:29:01First...  MeMyself, ...I do not in the least care whether or not you "agree" with my observations.  I do however, care about others which might become tainted by your present observations which are contrary to the GOSPEL of JESUS CHRIST - which is the SALVATION of the WORLD that HE was sent to save -- 1 John 4:14 -- and DID SAVE -- Col 1:20 -- 2 Cor 5:19 -- Rom 5:18-20 -- 1 Tim 4:9-11 -- John 1:29

Yes, Christ's work is finished, but He leaves it up to us what we do with it. Some will accept it gladly, but others will walk away and not look back.  They are like those Christ speaks of in His wedding banquet parable.  (you should check it out!)

Quote from: willieH on Fri Sep 27, 2013 - 18:29:01Second...  I have not attacked you personally... I have spoken out against the fallacies in which you invest your faith.  I do not know you personally and have no inclinations positive or negative toward you on a personal basis.

Not true at all!  You even in this post said I had a delusional mindset.  This is personally attacking! 

Quote from: willieH on Fri Sep 27, 2013 - 18:29:01I do however OBJECT to your SLANDER of the name of JESUS, as well, to the spread or your fallacies which are SPIRITUALLY CANCEROUS  unto others...

This is VERY close of accusing me of blasphemy and that is THE most offensive thing you have posted!!!  UNbelievable!!!!

Quote from: willieH on Fri Sep 27, 2013 - 18:29:01And even MORESO,  ...I do OBJECT to the TAINTING of the Holy name of our LOVING Father YHVH God (which YOU and other propose to be an ETERNAL TORMENTOR of His Creatures), which also part is your doings and sayings...   As you daily on this forum, propose HORROR and TORMENT and FEAR unto those who are created in the image of YHVH ...which was CLEARLY and SCRIPTURALLY condemned as misbehavior by James -- James 3:6-11 -- and is misbehavior in which you shall no doubt continue.

Lies..all of the above. 

Quote from: willieH on Fri Sep 27, 2013 - 18:29:01Third...  The Pharisees treated JESUS in the same way you treat me... doesn't matter.   ALL things will end according to the SALVATION which JESUS accomplished of the WORLD that GOD so LOVES, which WILL OCCUR, ...without regard to the fact that YOU REFUSE to see His wonderful and LOVING and PEACEFUL victory.


PEACE...  ...willieH

I haven't treated you in any way except to call you out on your rude, haughty, unkind, arrogant posting style.  If you are so easily hurt by that maybe you should revisit the golden rule and treat others the way you would like to be treated.

I was disagreeing with the other poster and she with me, but neither of us took it to the level YOU swooped in and did.  We were doing JUST fine without you barging in.

Blessings!

Quote from: willieH on Fri Sep 27, 2013 - 16:25:50

Quote from: chosenone on Fri Sep 27, 2013 - 16:09:02
Read The Exchange at the cross by Derek Prince.

ALWAYS ...Quoting SINNERS, ...not the WORD...  SINNERS support you... the WORD does not.


PEACE...    ...willieH

Derek prince knew the word inside out and he used it all the time. He also spoke Greek and Hebrew so knew what the meanings were of what was said.

Quote from: willieH on Fri Sep 27, 2013 - 16:27:36

Quote from: chosenone on Fri Sep 27, 2013 - 15:54:39
Chuck Swindoll
One way to understand the meaning of the death of Jesus is to imagine a courtroom scene in which we are on trial for our sins and God is the judge. Our sins against God are capital crimes. God Himself is our judge, and according to divine law our crimes deserve the death penalty. Death, in a spiritual sense, means eternal separation from God in unending torment. That's a very serious judgment.

By shedding His blood on the cross, Jesus took the punishment we deserve and offered us His righteousness. When we trust Christ for our salvation, essentially we are making a trade. By faith, we trade our sin and its accompanying death penalty for His righteousness and life.

In theological terms, this is called "substitutionary atonement." Christ died on the cross as our substitute. Without Him, we would suffer the death penalty for our own sins....

The writer to the Hebrews puts it this way: "And according to the Law, one may almost say, all things are cleansed with blood, and without shedding of blood there is no forgiveness" (Hebrews 9:22). For God to forgive our sins, His judgment had to be satisfied and that required the shedding of blood.

Some object, "Shedding blood seems so barbaric. Is it really necessary? Why doesn't God simply forgive us?" Because God is holy, He must judge sin. Would a just and righteous judge let evil go unpunished? At the cross, God poured out His judgment on His Son, satisfying His wrath and making it possible for Him to forgive us. That's why Jesus shed His blood for your sins, my sins, and the sins of the whole world....

God unleashed His wrath on His Son so that we might be spared that awful fate. This is the central message of the cross and the reason for our hope: God forsook His Son so that He might never forsake us. God assures us, "'I will never desert you, nor will I ever forsake you" (Hebrews 13:5). Isn't that a wonderful promise?

Quoting SINNERS, ...not the WORD...  SINNERS support you... the WORD does not.


PEACE...    ...willieH

A sinner saved by Grace as all Christians are.

Read this today.


There Is No End to the Eternity of Hell

Perhaps you've been taught that Hell, while horrible, is only temporary, and that the sinner who finds themselves there has a way of escape either through the prayers of the living or by some penitence that could be performed on their behalf. Let me assure you in the strongest possible terms that Hell, once arrived at, has no means of escape.

"And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire: Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. For every one shall be salted with fire, and every sacrifice shall be salted with salt." Mark 9: 43-49

Then a third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, "If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives [his] mark on his forehead or on his hand, "he himself shall also drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out full strength into the cup of His indignation. He shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb.

"And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever; and they have no rest day or night, who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name." Revelation 14:9,10

This is useful. I read it earlier.

Francis Chan's book Erasing Hell is a prophetic reminder that we can't compromise the gospel.
California pastor Francis Chan is one of my heroes, partly because he has given most of his book royalites—reportedly $2 million—to charity. Another reason I admire him: He's written a new book about hell at a time when many Christians are questioning the idea of eternal punishment. The guy has some chutzpah.

His new book Erasing Hell (David C. Cook) is a direct response to Love Wins, the controversial book by celebrity pastor Rob Bell of Michigan. While Bell's book flirts with universalism and suggests that a loving God would never send anyone to hell, Chan's message is blunt and biblical—yet without a hint of self-righteousness.

"Hell is not a popular doctrine. People don't shout, dance or wave handkerchiefs when we preach about it. They don't line up to come to conferences about it. Sermons about hell don't make people feel good."

Erasing Hell is an answer to prayer and a prophetic response to the spineless gospel many Americans have embraced in recent years. Chan does not wave a "TURN OR BURN" sign, nor does he dangle his readers over hot coals. Yet he forthrightly states that people who reject the merciful gift of salvation through Christ will get what all of us deserve—terrifying separation from God that lasts forever.

Chan read Bell's book carefully and was willing to ask whether hell was, in Chan's words, a "primitive myth left over from conservative tradition." After much prayer (he says we must "weep, pray and fast over this issue") he became convinced that we cannot remove hell from our message. Chan makes four arguments that poke holes in Bell's theology:

1. Hell is real. In Love Wins, Bell discounts the biblical view of hell as eternal punishment and suggests that it might be a metaphor for the horrors of life on earth—poverty, genocide and injustice, for example. But Chan goes back to the words of Jesus, who spoke more about hell than anyone in the Bible, and clears up the confusion. He writes:  "Hell is not considered to be the various 'hells on earth' that we face every day. It's a horrific place of judgment where God punishes people for their sins."

2. Hell is final. Universalists who blend Christianity with other religions teach that all sinners will get an extra chance to come clean with God after death.  But Chan says that's not what the Bible teaches: "There's no single passage in the Bible that describes, hints at, hopes for, or suggests that someone who dies without following Jesus in this life will have an opportunity to do so after death," he writes.

3. Hell is fair. People who question the doctrine of hell often ask, "How can a loving God send anyone to perish in eternal fire?" Chan says that's a prideful, self-centered question. We can't define God, or His perfect love, from a merely human perspective. We are the clay, and He is the potter. We must humble ourselves and view life from the perspective of God's rightousness, justice and holiness. Chan also writes that the apostle Paul made reference to the fate of wicked people more times in his epistles than he mentioned God's forgiveness, mercy and heaven combined. If hell doesn't seem fair to us, we aren't seeing it from God's viewpoint.

4. Hell is escapable. Rob Bell's flawed premise is that God will end up saving everyone regardless of how they acted or what they believed. Chan argues that the gospel is not good news unless there is a hell that sinners can escape from. He writes: "While hell can be a paralyzing doctrine, it can also be an energizing one, for it magnifies the beauty of the cross."

Hell is not a popular doctrine. People don't shout, dance or wave handkerchiefs when we preach about it. They don't line up to come to conferences about it. Sermons about hell don't make people feel good. But every revivalist in church history has kept the doctrine of hell at the core of his message, and we will see revival only if we reclaim it.

Charles Spurgeon advised aspiring ministers in the 1800s to constantly meditate on the sobering reality of hell in order to stay fervent in their faith. He wrote: "Meditate with deep solemnity upon the fate of the lost sinner, and, like Abraham, when you get up early to go to the place where you commune with God, cast an eye toward Sodom and see the smoke going up like the smoke of a furnace. Shun all views of future punishment that would make it appear less terrible."

Do you see the smoke of Sodom? Are you constantly aware that people around you are going to hell? Or have you bought into the trendy philosophies of backslidden preachers who question hell and have no power to free people from it? I'm grateful that Francis Chan had the grace—and the guts—to point us back to this biblical truth.

THis idea of 'all roads lead to God,' is from satan, and will lead up to the anti Christ and the one world church. Its sad to see it pushed here, but sadly it is a serious error that satan will try and infiltrate the Christian church with. The more people he can push into hell the happier he will be.

I am curious to see what if any version you got that from.....it just dosen't add up to my version the KJV 1611 haven't seen it in any other of the old versions...I would  love to back my views with scripture but would that change your mind ?

Quote from: chosenone on Sat Sep 28, 2013 - 04:19:47
THis idea of 'all roads lead to God,' is from satan, and will lead up to the anti Christ and the one world church. Its sad to see it pushed here, but sadly it is a serious error that satan will try and infiltrate the Christian church with. The more people he can push into hell the happier he will be.

I agree!

Many believe in hellfire because they have been taught that their entire lives therefore don't know any better. When one has been taught that all their lives it becomes truth to them even though its false. If I tell my children something, they will grow up believing it their entire lives just because their parent does so it must be true. Ex, the atheist are raised that way. Its what they were taught. The kkk were raised that way. Its what they were taught. I have seen evil really evil movies of church camps thats like a cult that happened in real life. I hate watching stuff like that but it exist because their false teaching/understandings made them evil.

Quote from: chosenone on Fri Sep 27, 2013 - 15:33:39

Quote from: texascowgirl on Fri Sep 27, 2013 - 14:31:18
Right and Christ is the lake of fire that judges man

That is totally nonsense. Where are you getting all this stuff from? You really need to get some good Biblical teaching.

ok I know it sounds strange but all fire judgments are from heaven not hell..  And there are many verses in the bible where Jesus is AS a fire, not is a fire. There is also a verse that states God is a consuming fire. There are tons of verses relating fire to Jesus but not one of them is a literal fire. 

Consider these things scripture tells us about THE FIRE.

1  Heb 12:29 says For our God IS A CONSUMING FIRE God has shown Himself to be not only a fire, but a CONSUMING FIRE.  God constantly speaks of fire in bringing judgment on sinners which is of course all mankind.

2 Rev 19:12 says His eyes were AS a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.

Daniel 10:6 His body was like topaz, his face like lightning, his eyes like  flaming  torches, his arms and legs like the gleam of burnished bronze, and his voice like the sound of a multitude.

Revelation 1:14
The hair on his head was white like wool, as white as snow, and his eyes were LIKE blazing fire.

Revelation 2:18  And to the angel of the church in Thyatira write; These things said the Son of God, who has his eyes like to a flame of fire, and his feet are like fine brass;

Revelation 1:15 His feet were LIKE bronze glowing in a furnace, and his voice was like the sound of rushing waters.

Revelation 10:1 Then I saw another mighty angel coming down from heaven. He was robed in a cloud, with a rainbow above his head; his face was like the sun, and his legs were LIKE fiery pillars.

Now in all the verses about fire that I posted say LIKE OR AS a fire and none say is a fire. None of them are referring to a place of torture. Every verse says  he or his and the first one God. But none are referring to a hellfire.

****Keep in mind that Jesus Christ is the savior of the world as I show you another verse below****

1cor 3:13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

1cor 3:15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire
The he that saves man by fire is Jesus Christ, the savior of the world.

When man teaches hellfire, he has no belief in Jesus Christ being the savior of the world all while claiming to be a believer.

Quote from: willieH on Fri Sep 27, 2013 - 16:25:50

Quote from: chosenone on Fri Sep 27, 2013 - 16:09:02
Read The Exchange at the cross by Derek Prince.

ALWAYS ...Quoting SINNERS, ...not the WORD...  SINNERS support you... the WORD does not.

Dr Prince knew more of the word than you will ever hope to know.

Luke 11:23

He that is not with me is against me: and he that gathereth not with me scattereth

Matthew 25:31-46New International Version (NIV)

The Sheep and the Goats
31 "When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his glorious throne. 32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.

34 "Then the King will say to those on his right, 'Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36 I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.'

37 "Then the righteous will answer him, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39 When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?'

40 "The King will reply, 'Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.'

41 "Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.'

44 "They also will answer, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?'

45 "He will reply, 'Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.'

46 "Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life."

Quote from: JohnDB on Thu Sep 06, 2012 - 21:26:33
Nope. That is adding to what was said and intended.

Jesus never once spoke to male prostitutes (homosexuals) or Greeks (except for Pilate)

He practiced exclusionary teachings as stated in the Old Covenant Law.

As Jesus spoke to thousands, you might as well add Russians, plumbers, blonds and redheads to that list.