Christian Forums

QuoteWhy does God tell us to Obey the Leaders and the laws of our country then?

Not in every instance. Saul was an anointed king appointed by God, but when he misbehaved God stripped him of his authority.  When King Herod wanted to murder the Messiah, Mary and Joseph didn't  obediently stick around and allow the Son of God to be killed. They went against the Jewish King's wishes and got the heck out of dodge. You don't obey an authority that establishes enmity with God.

QuoteI think that is very sad.  It shows no desire for God or His ways...just you and yours.

Don't say that. The fact that the kid is actually concerned with getting married instead of just giving in to the call of nature without the Lord's blessing shows that his heart's in the right place, even if his hormones goad him down a risky path.  I think 1 Corinthians 7:9 about describes this case.

Quote from: Swiss_Guard on Tue Nov 11, 2014 - 16:39:04

QuoteI think that is very sad.  It shows no desire for God or His ways...just you and yours.

Don't say that. The fact that the kid is actually concerned with getting married instead of just giving in to the call of nature without the Lord's blessing shows that his heart's in the right place, even if his hormones goad him down a risky path.

Did you read the post I was responding to? He said they aren't getting married and they aren't gonna give up the sex they are having.  I stand by what I said. If this was my son, I'd say the very same thing to him.

Quote from: Swiss_Guard on Tue Nov 11, 2014 - 16:39:04I think 1 Corinthians 7:9 about describes this case.

Sure! I would bet 99% of the population of adults fit that verse...and we get married, or do our best to stay pure.  He said they aren't willing to do so.

Quote from: Swiss_Guard on Tue Nov 11, 2014 - 16:33:54

QuoteWhy does God tell us to Obey the Leaders and the laws of our country then?

Not in every instance. Saul was an anointed king appointed by God, but when he misbehaved God stripped him of his authority.  When King Herod wanted to murder the Messiah, Mary and Joseph didn't  obediently stick around and allow the Son of God to be killed. They went against the Jewish King's wishes and got the heck out of dodge. You don't obey an authority that establishes enmity with God.

Romans 13:1-7New International Version (NIV)

Submission to Governing Authorities
13 Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. 2 Consequently, whoever rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. 3 For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and you will be commended. 4 For the one in authority is God's servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for rulers do not bear the sword for no reason. They are God's servants, agents of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. 5 Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also as a matter of conscience.

6 This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God's servants, who give their full time to governing. 7 Give to everyone what you owe them: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor.

QuoteDid you read the post I was responding to? He said they aren't getting married and they aren't gonna give up the sex they are having.  I stand by what I said. If this was my son, I'd say the very same thing to him.

He said that they're not going to get LEGALLY married, because they can't. The law forces 16 year- olds to be children, even though their grandparents were essentially adults by that age. He shouldn't be having sex, but by the same token this sin is partially caused by the law not providing for situations like this. It's far better that they be married than continue in this state of fornication.

Quote

Submission to Governing Authorities
13 Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. 2 Consequently, whoever rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. 3 For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and you will be commended. 4 For the one in authority is God's servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for rulers do not bear the sword for no reason. They are God's servants, agents of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. 5 Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also as a matter of conscience.

But for all that, God Himself unseated disobedient kings. He does not expect us to submit to evil leaders. Do you think we should turn over Jews to Hitler because he's the ruler and ordered it so?

Quote from: Swiss_Guard on Tue Nov 11, 2014 - 16:39:04

QuoteI think that is very sad.  It shows no desire for God or His ways...just you and yours.

Don't say that. The fact that the kid is actually concerned with getting married instead of just giving in to the call of nature without the Lord's blessing shows that his heart's in the right place, even if his hormones goad him down a risky path.  I think 1 Corinthians 7:9 about describes this case.

Except that they are probably still children and not of an age to get married.  Maybe this is why so many say that dating as we know it now isnt a good or Biblical idea, especially for such young people. Too much time alone and too much temptation. 

Quote from: Swiss_Guard on Tue Nov 11, 2014 - 17:25:30

QuoteDid you read the post I was responding to? He said they aren't getting married and they aren't gonna give up the sex they are having.  I stand by what I said. If this was my son, I'd say the very same thing to him.

He said that they're not going to get LEGALLY married, because they can't. The law forces 16 year- olds to be children, even though their grandparents were essentially adults by that age. He shouldn't be having sex, but by the same token this sin is partially caused by the law not providing for situations like this. It's far better that they be married than continue in this state of fornication.

We dont know if they are 16, they may be younger, and we dont know what the legal age is for marriage where they live. Here its 16 with parents permission and 18 otherwise. 

How many 16 year olds where you live are anywhere near mature enough for marriage, and are able to support themselves get a home and be ready to be parents if they have children? They are rightly still at school. Come to think of it I dont know many young people in their early 20's who are mature enough for all that marriage entails either. Some are but not many.

Its just sad that such young people have sex today as a matter of course.

QuoteExcept that they are probably still children and not of an age to get married.  Maybe this is why so many say that dating as we know it now isnt a good or Biblical idea, especially for such young people. Too much time alone and too much temptation.

I don't disagree. That's why in generations past many families would send a chaperone with their son or daughter when they went courting, to make sure things didn't get out of hand. It's pretty hard to fall into inappropriate behavior when you have a stern church lady breathing down your neck.

Quote from: Swiss_Guard on Tue Nov 11, 2014 - 17:25:30

QuoteDid you read the post I was responding to? He said they aren't getting married and they aren't gonna give up the sex they are having.  I stand by what I said. If this was my son, I'd say the very same thing to him.

He said that they're not going to get LEGALLY married, because they can't. The law forces 16 year- olds to be children, even though their grandparents were essentially adults by that age.

That is NOT all he said!  Please read the entire post:

QuoteI'm 16 shes 15 and no I'm not waiting another 6-7 years to have sex because were not getting legally married until after college. we can't just get married at 18 that won't happen its almost impossible for us and its not that simple to not have sex with her because now its like everytime she comes over we have sex I'm not stopping that for 6 years

Quote from: Swiss_Guard on Tue Nov 11, 2014 - 17:25:30He shouldn't be having sex, but by the same token this sin is partially caused by the law not providing for situations like this. It's far better that they be married than continue in this state of fornication.

No one is arguing that.  I will say, if I were the parent in this situation, I would make some new very strict and enforceable boundaries between these two.

QuoteThat is NOT all he said!  Please read the entire post

I did read that bit, and my impression from his earlier comments was that he was planning on going to the nearest preacher and getting married without legal recognition of the union. Certainly not the ideal arrangement, but still probably better than just continuing to have sex without any marriage at all. Of course, no one disagrees that the best thing for him to do is to stay away from her until they're of the appropriate age, but he refuses to do that, then getting married is better than fornicating.

QuoteNo one is arguing that.  I will say, if I were the parent in this situation, I would make some new very strict and enforceable boundaries between these two.

Of course. And if I knew his parents' email address I'd give them an earful of what their kid's up to. But since that's clearly not going to happen, all I'm saying is that they're better off married than continuing to fornicate.

Quote from: Swiss_Guard on Tue Nov 11, 2014 - 17:45:47

QuoteThat is NOT all he said!  Please read the entire post

I did read that bit, and my impression from his earlier comments was that he was planning on going to the nearest preacher and getting married without legal recognition of the union. Certainly not the ideal arrangement, but still probably better than just continuing to have sex without any marriage at all. Of course, no one disagrees that the best thing for him to do is to stay away from her until they're of the appropriate age, but he refuses to do that, then getting married is better than fornicating.

QuoteNo one is arguing that.  I will say, if I were the parent in this situation, I would make some new very strict and enforceable boundaries between these two.

Of course. And if I knew his parents' email address I'd give them an earful of what their kid's up to. But since that's clearly not going to happen, all I'm saying is that they're better off married than continuing to fornicate.

yeah...we all agree, but he isn't doing that.  So, the BEST thing is to break up, get some accountability and repent...not just dig heels in and go for it the way that "feels best".

Quote from: isaiahkiki on Tue Nov 11, 2014 - 15:33:06
I'm 16 shes 15 and no I'm not waiting another 6-7 years to have sex because were not getting legally married until after college. we can't just get married at 18 that won't happen its almost impossible for us and its not that simple to not have sex with her because now its like everytime she comes over we have sex I'm not stopping that for 6 years

So you have been having sex since she was 14 and you were 15? is that legal there?
Yes it is simple not to have sex, you stop. Do your parents know that you are having sex in their house?

Its your decision whether to obey God or not, but it depends on whether you want Gods blessing or not. It depends on whether sex is more important than God.

If you are sure she is the one but you feel you cant marry till you are 21 or whatever,(not sure why you cant marry at 18 if you are so sure), then cool the relationship for 3 or 4 years. Just see each other as friends, always meet outside the home, and never be alone inside together. Go out in groups.
You are both so very young, you will probably both go away to college, maybe not the same one, and you may well end up not marrying her anyway, so you may be having sex with someone elses future wife.  Would you like your possible future wife to be having sex with other men? 

Quote from: Swiss_Guard on Tue Nov 11, 2014 - 17:45:47

QuoteThat is NOT all he said!  Please read the entire post

I did read that bit, and my impression from his earlier comments was that he was planning on going to the nearest preacher and getting married without legal recognition of the union. Certainly not the ideal arrangement, but still probably better than just continuing to have sex without any marriage at all. Of course, no one disagrees that the best thing for him to do is to stay away from her until they're of the appropriate age, but he refuses to do that, then getting married is better than fornicating.

QuoteNo one is arguing that.  I will say, if I were the parent in this situation, I would make some new very strict and enforceable boundaries between these two.

Of course. And if I knew his parents' email address I'd give them an earful of what their kid's up to. But since that's clearly not going to happen, all I'm saying is that they're better off married than continuing to fornicate.

I am not sure his intention was to go to a preacher and marry, because they are not old enough to do that anyway, and hopefully the preacher would make sure their parents know about it as they are so very young. 

If I were the parent of either of them, they would no longer see each other until they were at an age to marry.  No contact at all.  It is impossible to expect them to just stop having sex and go back to holding hands now.  They have crossed a line.  You cut the relationship off. 

"Ok, but as I stated, Common Law Marriage is marriage...they are man and wife, so how are they going against God's teaching, like you stated?"

But, a common law marriage is not an automatic thing just because someone moves in with someone else.  According to the Laws of the state, a Home has to be established and they must cohabitate for a number of years before it can be qualified as a Common Law marriage.  Most states that is 7 years. 

I don't think the OP has that as an option at all. 

Quote from: kensington on Tue Nov 11, 2014 - 18:26:59
If I were the parent of either of them, they would no longer see each other until they were at an age to marry.  No contact at all.  It is impossible to expect them to just stop having sex and go back to holding hands now.  They have crossed a line.  You cut the relationship off.

While I see your point, I do know couples who did stop having sex after a time, but they were older and more mature and had begun to realise how very important it was to obey God.   

Quote from: chosenone on Tue Nov 11, 2014 - 17:35:28
We dont know if they are 16, they may be younger, and we dont know what the legal age is for marriage where they live. Here its 16 with parents permission and 18 otherwise. 

In almost every state the age is 18 and 16 with parental (or judicial) consent. Mississippi is 21 (with no minimum with parental consent) and Nebraska is 19. A few states have different ages (with parental consent) for guys and girls (girls usually being a year younger)

Quote from: isaiahkiki on Sat Nov 08, 2014 - 14:32:15
Ok I'm a christian but I'm not a strict christian. My girlfriend and I have been dating for about 2 years now and have had sex all of 3 times first time was on our 1 year anniversary. Im very committed and loyal to her I've never cheated or anything but I just found out that you aren't supposed to have sex until after marriage! (excuse my ignorance) I still want to have sex with her we both love each other very very much, but what should we do! were both underage so we cant get married but if i could I would, and its not like a stupid little highschool relationship we seriously are commited to each other and plan on getting married when we are on our own and stuff. Please I need help :(

You are in a tough spot! Being underage, I am sure both of your hormones are raging and that temptation of sex is hard to ignore. I admire you because what you are experiencing is biological but you are letting  your moral compass (God) point you in the right direction by asking for direction and advice.
Look at it this way. Stop having sex for now. It can be something you guys can look so forward to on your wedding night because when God unites two soul mates, the love that you will experience is out of this world!  And going for so long with out sex wil be like icing on the cake..

Quote from: isaiahkiki on Sat Nov 08, 2014 - 14:32:15
Ok I'm a christian but I'm not a strict christian. My girlfriend and I have been dating for about 2 years now and have had sex all of 3 times first time was on our 1 year anniversary. Im very committed and loyal to her I've never cheated or anything but I just found out that you aren't supposed to have sex until after marriage! (excuse my ignorance) I still want to have sex with her we both love each other very very much, but what should we do! were both underage so we cant get married but if i could I would, and its not like a stupid little highschool relationship we seriously are commited to each other and plan on getting married when we are on our own and stuff. Please I need help :(

Try reading this article and following its advice:

http://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/2014/11/04/duck-dynasty-sadie-robertson-tips-on-staying-pure-before-marriage/