Christian Forums

Notreligious said to take this discussion here.  I concur.

Quote from: Tyler on Wed Apr 29, 2015 - 10:01:01
DaveW: "And where did you get the idea that ALL JUDAISMS reject the idea that Jesus is Messiah and Son of God?  New Covenant Judaism (Messianic) certainly believes in Jesus."

Dave-- do you understand 2 Cor. 3:6-7 as the end of Judaism? If not why not?
What is it about "passed away" that you do not understand? A Jew without the Temple and law is like an Indian without a wigwam.

The Jew had their place in history bringing Jesus into the world through the seed of Abraham.
They (not all), were special or chosen for this purpose and this purpose only.
To contend that the alleged Jew of today is still the chosen of God is in essence to argue that the true Christ has not come.

Why are you still hung up on the Talmud and the Mishna? Why those old rabbis of the past were no more inspired than my old Cherokee grandfather commenting on canonical law with a snoot full of fire water.

Their hatred for Christianity is evil.
The Talmud deliberately twisted events and facts recorded in the Gospels.
Many of the references in this "Rag" about Jesus are so vulgar--they are unquotable on a forum. Yet, you hang on to this and refer to Judaism and Christianity as "kissing cousins."
"Messianic Jews" and "Messianic Gentiles." Kind of like Bud Abbott and Lou Costello "Whose on First."
Ever read Alan Dershowitz, professor of law at Harvard University on why Jesus of Nazareth "is not my messiah"? His logic comes from his faith as a "Jew" that Jesus was an imposter.

The fact that the Jewish rabbis from the close of the first century on down to now have attempted so many attacks upon Jesus helps to prove the realty of His earthly life.
Josephus Klausner, the note Talmudic scholar, and radical Jew writes from his "Jesus of Nazareth." Jesus was born of the illegitimate union of Mary with a Roman soldier named "Panther." The Talmud offers the climax of vituperation by saying Jesus would be condemned in eternity to be thrown into boiling filth. (pp. 25,27).

No matter how you want to slice "cult" Dave ---Messianic Judaism hanging on to the Talmud, Mishna, Gamara as sound doctrine is a frolic in deceit. They are legends, trumped up by non believers whose hatred of the Lord comes unilaterally from the devil.
As Paul has written, For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. (Eph. 6:12).

Tyler - have you ever read the statements of faith from the Union of Messianic Jewish Congregations or the Messianic Jewish Alliance of America?  Between the 2 organizations they encompass about 3/4 of the congregations in the US.  Your comments about being tied to the Talmud et al as "sound doctrine" is not in there. 

http://www.umjc.org/statement-of-faith/

http://www.mjaa.org/site/PageServer?pagename=rd_aboutus_statement_of_faith

Here are the statements of a couple of smaller organizations:

http://chosenpeople.com/main/index.php/about-us/doctrinal-statement

http://www.ariel.org/auds.htm



Please study these documents.  And reply about how your accusations stand up to these.

It's my persecution complex acting up again, but I was admonished by management last week to take all such discussions here.  I'll join in, if I may, after Tyler responds.     

Ok---you gentlemen are difficult to track down. I was trying to plow my fields and stay informed on the Forum as well. I see it is now "Tyler's Take on Messianic Judaism."

Actually, I was around back in the 60's when a number of young men of Messianic thinking asked if they could speak at Pentecostal church I attended during that era. They were making their rounds in the community to speak where ever they could get a hearing. I saw it then as I do now--a cult trying to retain roots in Jewish traditions. Believing that they are God's people to spread his name into all nations (Psalms 96:3)

Down here we say---if it walks like a duck and looks like a duck---it's a duck. It may quack differently than a goose honks--but it's a duck. Both have feathers, fly and swim--but it is a duck.
Messianic's quack----They define sin differently. They hang onto Jewish holidays. Dietary laws,
Covenant relationship--- they cannot agree. They are as divided on theology as any denomination. Ask them about the "Two House Theology" and listen to the quack-quack.
Eschatology? Quack-quack. Sabbath day? you hear both a quack and a honk.

Baptism for the remission of sins in the name of Jesus Christ to receive the gift of the Holy Spirit is as foreign to a Messianic as it is a Baptist or a Pentecostal. When the "Jews" in the state of Israel look upon the Messianic's as a cult--- they have attained the status of a duck in the mind of Jewish Israel---whatever that means.

Basically, the Jew in Israel sees a "Christian" as a red-necked coonhound chasing a rabbit up a tree. Jesus of Nazareth---is not, and will not be their Messiah. They have "willed theirselves" not to believe. 

To the Messianic, I say--as Paul has written in his letter to Rome: There is no longer a distinction between Jew and Gentile. If a person is in Christ he is a descendent of Abraham. A descendent of FAITH according to the PROMISE God made with Abraham. The New Testament Jew is NOT according to the FLESH.

We are not Christians because of genealogy, but by FAITH. Christians have a circumcision that though it does not remove the foreskin, it instead removes SIN. It is not performed by hands, but instead occurs at baptism, when by faith, a person surrenders his WILL to the WILL of  God.
God works in baptism to remove our sin and set us apart as His very own.
This is not the belief of a Messianic Jew, Gentile or Duck....!

Tyler - did you read the links I provided?  You claim we say this, believe that and do the other.  But does your statement stand up to what we actually profess?