Christian Forums

Quote
Which is to say, sans the dental dam, 'eating' bodily fluids does occur.

That's not necessarily true.  There's a northern alternative.

But I was thinking more along the lines of a female eating live reproductive cells, which doesn't have to happen either.

Quote from: Link on Fri May 29, 2015 - 22:37:35

Quote
Which is to say, sans the dental dam, 'eating' bodily fluids does occur.

That's not necessarily true.  There's a northern alternative.

You've lost me there. "Northern alternative"?

QuoteBut I was thinking more along the lines of a female eating live reproductive cells, which doesn't have to happen either.

I understood that part.

You are thinking just a little further south. 

Texas Conservative,
What is MDR?

Quote from: Link on Sat May 30, 2015 - 03:15:10
You are thinking just a little further south.

Cryptic responses don't help. We're all adult men here. Please speak plainly. The topic of this discussion focuses on the southern regions. If you're speaking of the northern region, a woman's breasts, please say so. If not please clear up the murky waters.

Quote from: e.r.m. on Sun May 31, 2015 - 08:43:48
Texas Conservative,
What is MDR?

I'll hazard my guess since he has yet to respond and say, Married Divorced Remarried = MDR

Thank you. I'm only guessing the ICOC sees it as damage done, unless I had file for divorce previously without the reasons of adultery or abandonment, in which case, divorce is not allowed.

Quote from: e.r.m. on Sun May 31, 2015 - 10:38:30
Thank you. I'm only guessing the ICOC sees it as damage done, unless I had file for divorce previously without the reasons of adultery or abandonment, in which case, divorce is not allowed.

I take it those two or one issue was the grounds for your divorce?

I'd hope domestic abuse would be an allowed grounds for divorce. Then again, and this is not to disrespect anyone's church and is offered as a personal opinion being I am happily married, I would not let a church dictate what I would tolerate in a bad marriage.
God would know all that transpires and being merciful he'd understand an exit strategy for the good of both parties.

Quote from: e.r.m. on Sun May 31, 2015 - 10:38:30
Thank you. I'm only guessing the ICOC sees it as damage done, unless I had file for divorce previously without the reasons of adultery or abandonment, in which case, divorce is not allowed.

Some Church of Christ (non-instrumental) churches view remarriage as not allowed after divorce until the death of the "former" spouse.  There are those even within my brotherhood that feel this way. 

Texas Conservative,
The Bible is silent on the divorcee of unBiblical reasons.

Buster D Body Crab,
My ex-wife was egregiously abusive and unbeknownst to either of us until after we were married, she is mentally ill. She would do things like yank the shower curtain while I was taking a shower and start punching me in the face, threaten to crash the car on the highway and kill us both unless I complied with her demands, and when I would grab her arms to defend myself, she would dig her nails into my skin, causing many cuts. It would take a lot to discuss the mind games and relentless bouts of criticisms. I scoured the NT for a way out of the marriage. There is none. My friend looked as well and didn't find anything. The church can't override the bible and give me a way out, since the bible doesn't. What I didn't understand is that God would have watched out for me and perhaps even rescued me if I had faith in him. I allowed my faith to suffer once I woke up to the reality of the situation.

  I'm sorry to read of your suffering. Thank God you came through it.
I pray your ex-wife finds healing and peace as well.

Quote from: e.r.m. on Sun May 31, 2015 - 14:32:10
Buster D Body Crab,
My ex-wife was egregiously abusive and unbeknownst to either of us until after we were married, she is mentally ill. I scoured the NT for a way out of the marriage. There is none. My friend looked as well and didn't find anything. The church can't override the bible and give me a way out, since the bible doesn't. What I didn't understand is that God would have watched out for me and perhaps even rescued me if I had faith in him. I allowed my faith to suffer once I woke up to the reality of the situation.

I will be officially divorced here in a few weeks or less.  My divorce is because of adultery and possibly her being a non-believer as her actions above and beyond the adultery would be hard for a believer to commit without remorse.

Buster D Body Crab,
Thanks. I hope so as well.

Texas Conservative,
My condolences.  This goes against the the stereotype does it's the men who cheat and leave the Lord. It goes both ways.

Quote from: e.r.m. on Sun May 31, 2015 - 14:55:32
Texas Conservative,
My condolences.  This goes against the the stereotype does it's the men who cheat and leave the Lord. It goes both ways.

I would say with feminism and today's society that this kind of behavior is becoming more common.  At least the preacher in my current congregation believes that one is bound to their spouse for life, and that remarriage is not acceptable.  Eventually, that will become a conflict in my life as I do not hold to that teaching and it will not stop me from getting married again.

I also offer my condolences for your loss. God be with you. And may he bring his light to your soon to be ex-wife.

Quote from: Texas Conservative on Sun May 31, 2015 - 14:47:16

Quote from: e.r.m. on Sun May 31, 2015 - 14:32:10
Buster D Body Crab,
My ex-wife was egregiously abusive and unbeknownst to either of us until after we were married, she is mentally ill. I scoured the NT for a way out of the marriage. There is none. My friend looked as well and didn't find anything. The church can't override the bible and give me a way out, since the bible doesn't. What I didn't understand is that God would have watched out for me and perhaps even rescued me if I had faith in him. I allowed my faith to suffer once I woke up to the reality of the situation.

I will be officially divorced here in a few weeks or less.  My divorce is because of adultery and possibly her being a non-believer as her actions above and beyond the adultery would be hard for a believer to commit without remorse.

Texas Conservative,
Use the Bible.

Buster D Body Crab,
Wait, what do you mean my soon to be ex-wife?!

Quote from: e.r.m. on Sun May 31, 2015 - 16:27:40
Buster D Body Crab,
Wait, what do you mean my soon to be ex-wife?!

I was speaking to Texas Conservative's post. "I will be officially divorced here in a few weeks or less.  My divorce is because of adultery and possibly her being a non-believer as her actions above and beyond the adultery would be hard for a believer to commit without remorse."

I'm sorry, I got mixed up.

Quote from: e.r.m. on Sun May 31, 2015 - 16:36:57
I'm sorry, I got mixed up.

No problem brother. Sometimes the quote boxes make it hard to pick out who's saying what. 

Thank you.

Of course.  We're brothers here.

Quote from: e.r.m. on Fri May 29, 2015 - 10:45:10
DaveW and Alan,
Yes, I'm aware there was variety in the older generations also. I will spend time in prayer over the situation. I will definitely look for other ways to stimulate her clitoris. I'm hoping that we will be able to do so without oral sex, but I will still be praying about that. Thank you both.

You are quite welcome and congrats on your upcoming nuptials. 

I am so sorry to hear about your past marriage.  I do not know the position on remarriage in your branch of the CoC but I see in 1 Cor 7 that Paul allows for the dissolution of marriage in the case of abandonment.  It would seem that your former wife's behavior certainly qualifies. 1 Timothy 5:8 says that a person who does not take care of their responsibilities to those in their own home, deny the faith and are to be considered an unbeliever. 

And if she has remarried (or started a sexual relationship of any other type); she has committed adultery against you and there should be no scriptural roadblocks to remarrying.

DaveW,
I'm not going to be so hard on her. She honestly didn't have it all there. Thank you though.

QuoteCryptic responses don't help. We're all adult men here. Please speak plainly. The topic of this discussion focuses on the southern regions. If you're speaking of the northern region, a woman's breasts, please say so. If not please clear up the murky waters.

You are sailing way too far north. 

Let's change the topic and talk about what's for dinner on the voyage.  You are probably thinking of eating clams for dinner, rather than beans.

Quote from: e.r.m. on Mon Jun 01, 2015 - 11:53:11
DaveW,
I'm not going to be so hard on her. She honestly didn't have it all there. Thank you though.

OK, That's cool.

Congrats again!

Thank you.

Deleted wrong post.

DaveW,

QuoteThe Song of Solomon describes oral sex several times (in a positive light).  Usually it is on her (2.16, 5.18, 6.3) but one instance is on him. (4.11)

I Iooked them all up and from what I can tell, they would only suggest oral sex to those who already have it in mind. The lillies Are in context of the garden and lips like honeycomb could easily suggest something else. There's nothing confirming oral sex. It's all inferred.

Red Baker,

QuoteThat's what married life does Edward...But, then again, you should for one years spend as much as time you can with your wife and CHEER her up, including whatsoever you both enjoy in the marriage bed, it is undefiled before God.

Hebrews 13:4 Marriage is honourable in all, and the bed undefiled: but whoremongers and adulterers God will judge.

undefiled
μίαντος,a  \{am-ee'-an-tos}
1) not defiled, unsoiled  1a) free from that by which the nature of a thing is deformed and debased, or its force and vigour impaired.
http://www.greekbible.com/l.php?a)mi/antos_a-----nsf-_

Defiled is that by which the nature of a thing is deformed.

Nature intended sexual organs for other sexual organs. They weren't designed to go in the mouth.

That seems to me like defiling.

Quote from: e.r.m. on Fri Jul 10, 2015 - 22:08:14That seems to me like defiling.

Brother, you said it correctly: "That seems to me" ....Then, that's okay with God, and your conscience, but another good brother, does have LIBERTY to use his marriage bed as it seems good to him and his wife. God's word is totally silent on this subject, (unless you accept Dave's understanding on SoS, which I do not) so that within itself cannot be called SIN.  What is sin?  It is the transgression of GOD'S LAW, not of others view of sin based upon their conscience. 

Brother, I love and respect your conscience of sin~but that within itself will not be what I will judge right or wrong upon, but will use God's perfect law of LIBERTY to judge what is sin and what is not sin.

God's word DOES NOT give us a list of do's and dont's of "foreplay"~but has given us liberty within the marriage bed between a man and his wife.  NO MINISTER has the right to pry into the bedroom of a man and his wife, not even the angels of God....God's word has spoken, and told us that the bed IS UNDEFILED~period!

The ONLY thing that we are not permitted to do in the bed with our wife is to lay with her while she is unclean.  We have clear scriptures concerning this law.  I am sure you know them.

Red Baker

Red Baker,

QuoteBrother, you said it correctly: "That seems to me" ....Then, that's okay with God, and your conscience, but another good brother, does have LIBERTY to use his marriage bed as it seems good to him and his wife. God's word is totally silent on this subject, (unless you accept Dave's understanding on SoS, which I do not) so that within itself cannot be called SIN.  What is sin?  It is the transgression of GOD'S LAW, not of others view of sin based upon their conscience. 

Brother, I love and respect your conscience of sin~but that within itself will not be what I will judge right or wrong upon, but will use God's perfect law of LIBERTY to judge what is sin and what is not sin.

God's word DOES NOT give us a list of do's and dont's of "foreplay"~but has given us liberty within the marriage bed between a man and his wife.  NO MINISTER has the right to pry into the bedroom of a man and his wife, not even the angels of God....God's word has spoken, and told us that the bed IS UNDEFILED~period!

The ONLY thing that we are not permitted to do in the bed with our wife is to lay with her while she is unclean.  We have clear scriptures concerning this law.  I am sure you know them.

Red Baker

I agree, I do not accept DaveW's take on SS.
I'm not trying to interfere in anyone's bedroom.
But whether it's sinful or a silent matter is still being determined.

Hebrews 3:14 is the only place I found that seems to say something on the matter. It defines defiling as against nature. The genitals were not made for the mouth, nor the mouth for genitals.

Quote from: e.r.m. on Sat Jul 11, 2015 - 12:09:06I'm not trying to interfere in anyone's bedroom.

I know that you are not, and neither did I insinuated that you were~I was only making a point that no minister should pry into the bedroom of married people, which I have witness some trying to do, and have succeeded doing so.

You said:

QuoteHebrews 3:14 is the only place I found that seems to say something on the matter. It defines defiling as against nature. The genitals were not made for the mouth, nor the mouth for genitals.

Edward, you are not reading Hebrews 13:4 correctly.  You are reading what you think it is saying, based upon your conscience toward such thing, but the writer of Hebrews is not saying that defiling is "against nature", but that the BED IS UNDEFILED, and if the bed is undefiled, and it is, then who can say what is allowable as "foreplay" and what is not?  No man can, if he does not have clear scriptures supporting him~as a matter of truth, desiring the opposite sex is far from being against nature, such as sodomy (defined as man with man, and woman with woman, per the scriptures) would be, but not adultery, which actually works in our nature, and must be mortified, so that sin does not have dominion over us as children of God.   

Let us read that scripture again:

QuoteHebrews 13:4~"Marriage is honourable in all, and the bed undefiled: but whoremongers and adulterers God will judge."

Now does the writer of Hebrews defines defiling as something against nature?  No, he clearly makes a statement (a position of righteousness if you will) that the marriage bed between a man and his wife, is undefiled; he is not saying that that certain acts of foreplay is against nature and is defiling and sinful.  Many men and women have taught that if they believe something is wrong, then the god that they have created in their hearts, thinks that it is wrong, and generally close their minds to what the scriptures does say....that's how false doctrine has found its way into the professing churches of God from the very beginning.

Brother, if you and your wife thinks that it is defiling, then that is between you and God and your conscience, by which you serve God....then you have a right to that position, and must keep it between you and God, and never look at a brother who may practice otherwise.  Christian liberty must be practice by us in area's that God does not say: Do NOT do this, or that~which on this subject he does not.  Whether you practice such things, or not, does not make one more, or less godly in God's eyes and according to his word.

Brother a woman's breast was created by God for babies mouths not yours, now, whose to tell you or me, that we cannot enjoy them also? By trying to tell men that they cannot, would only be causing them to sin before God, for I am pretty sure that every man has found his way there before little junior did!

Your conscience, or mine, is not what we can judge others by, to determine if they love God or not~we live by faith, using the scriptures as our rule of righteousness to live by, not other men's likes or dislikes.

Brother, we BOTH agree that whoremongers and adulterers God will judge.  I do love your tender conscience and respect it.  But it is your conscience that you have up until now, and it is always subject to change based upon God revealing his truth to us as we grow in grace and knowledge of him and his will.  Mine has changed over the years.