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I have written a lot of things in the full preterist mindset in the past which I now ask the Lord for forgiveness for. I began 9 years ago studying FP and it sounded so right to me. I was in a bad place after my brother died and was isolating myself and just spent a long time in that place reading things and studying the word through that lens. Though a lot of arguments I used back then still seem sensible to me, I think I have really missed something, dual fulfillment or something. And now with this world-wide economic collapse that appears to be going full speed ahead, I am reminded about all of the things I said without humility of heart about "futurists". I formally apologize to anyone who reads this, I can't delete those conversations on this forum tho I would like to, and I hope no one who may stumble upon them is lead astray. Jesus Christ must be coming again, the world is ripe for a one world economy. Though it's hard for me to see past my understanding of Matthew 24 and Luke 21 concerning that generation and all the ways I put two and two together concerning prophecy and events of those times, I just accept that I cannot explain how it all works together but I must keep watch! Come soon, Lord Jesus! This world is growing darker by the day!!

Maybe you should apologize to Stormcrow, the full preterist who you back-stabbed with your confused beliefs in the Preterist section!

I liked Stormcrow and all the rest of the full preterists from years ago on this site. Wish they'd come back.

Admin on this forum probably could delete your posts by deleting your account? If so, then you could start afresh.

After having questioned the full preterist doctrine, be careful you don't fall into the pre-trib rapture trap either, because our Lord Jesus showed us that His coming and gathering of His Church is immediately after the tribulation He warned of (Matthew 24:29-31; Mark 13:24-27). That gathering of the saints in His Olivet discourse is the same event Apostle Paul gave in 1 Thessalonians 4.

Pre-tribbers won't admit that because their leaders lie to them also, telling them Christ's Olivet discourse is not for His Church.

It simply boils down to who will listen and heed our Heavenly Father's Holy Writ instead of relying on traditions of man. A friend of mine is on a pre-trib rapture doctrine, his father a pastor preaching that doctrine. He has something like 13 of Tim LaHaye's books, and I still find there is much of The Bible he hasn't even read, particularly Scripture about prophecy for the end leading up to our Lord Jesus' 2nd coming. He has some doubts about the doctrine, but he was raised on it.

Quote from: raggthyme13 on Mon Mar 16, 2020 - 05:32:05
I have written a lot of things in the full preterist mindset in the past which I now ask the Lord for forgiveness for. I began 9 years ago studying FP and it sounded so right to me. I was in a bad place after my brother died and was isolating myself and just spent a long time in that place reading things and studying the word through that lens. Though a lot of arguments I used back then still seem sensible to me, I think I have really missed something, dual fulfillment or something. And now with this world-wide economic collapse that appears to be going full speed ahead, I am reminded about all of the things I said without humility of heart about "futurists". I formally apologize to anyone who reads this, I can't delete those conversations on this forum tho I would like to, and I hope no one who may stumble upon them is lead astray. Jesus Christ must be coming again, the world is ripe for a one world economy. Though it's hard for me to see past my understanding of Matthew 24 and Luke 21 concerning that generation and all the ways I put two and two together concerning prophecy and events of those times, I just accept that I cannot explain how it all works together but I must keep watch! Come soon, Lord Jesus! This world is growing darker by the day!!

Quote from: raggthyme13 on Mon Mar 16, 2020 - 05:32:05
I have written a lot of things in the full preterist mindset in the past which I now ask the Lord for forgiveness for. I began 9 years ago studying FP and it sounded so right to me. I was in a bad place after my brother died and was isolating myself and just spent a long time in that place reading things and studying the word through that lens. Though a lot of arguments I used back then still seem sensible to me, I think I have really missed something, dual fulfillment or something. And now with this world-wide economic collapse that appears to be going full speed ahead, I am reminded about all of the things I said without humility of heart about "futurists". I formally apologize to anyone who reads this, I can't delete those conversations on this forum tho I would like to, and I hope no one who may stumble upon them is lead astray. Jesus Christ must be coming again, the world is ripe for a one world economy. Though it's hard for me to see past my understanding of Matthew 24 and Luke 21 concerning that generation and all the ways I put two and two together concerning prophecy and events of those times, I just accept that I cannot explain how it all works together but I must keep watch! Come soon, Lord Jesus! This world is growing darker by the day!!

Your spirit back then was of a born again child of God which I looked PAST your doctrine and the confusion which you were in~if you remember. No need to go back, just continue growing in the truth and the Lord bless you in doing so. Brother Red Baker

Thank you, brother. You have shown great kindness over the years. The Lord bless you as well.

  Both full & partial preterism are man-made & false. This is proven by history & reality.

Quote from: robycop3 on Tue Mar 31, 2020 - 16:00:54
  Both full & partial preterism are man-made & false. This is proven by history & reality.

Just the opposite.  Preterism is true while futurism is wanting and waiting.

Preterism proves that Jesus was not a false prophet and returned to receive those remnant apostles to Himself as he promised them.

In reality, your "antichrist garbage" for today is big, bad news..

Get with the Good News!

Quote from: val5662 on Mon Jan 01, 2018 - 12:07:23
Hi All....
Does everyone know the next big event coming any day or year to our planet?
No, it's not Jesus coming back to reign for a thousand years.
It's the seven year peace plan.
You can lose your soul if you are deceived by the coming Antichrist.
Here is the best short video I have found explaining this end times prophecy in detail.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iPRDpUvrldo
Have a great day!

Yep, he's right on target within God's Word. That video link is the first one I've seen posted on a Christian forum that I can totally agree is solidly based in God's Word.

Long ago I was confused about the KJV wording "confirm the covenant" in Dan.9:27. But a closer study in Daniel 11 about the "vile person" reveals the idea of confirming the covenant is actually about his making a "league" (pact) to re-institute the old covenant worship. That is why starting animal sacrifices and building another Jewish temple in Jerusalem is required for the Daniel 11:31 verse to be fulfilled.

Now here's the funny part...

Those against what he taught in that video from God's Word just so happen to teach specifically against those very specific points he covered.

Coincidence maybe?? I don't think so. The devil knows exactly how all those pieces of Bible Scripture fit together, from the Book of Daniel to our Lord Jesus' Olivet discourse to His Revelation given to His servant John. Afterall, the devil even quoted from the Psalms in tempting our Lord Jesus, adding just one little phrase that changed its meaning (Luke 4).

Quote from: dpr on Tue Apr 07, 2020 - 18:35:33
Yep, he's right on target within God's Word. That video link is the first one I've seen posted on a Christian forum that I can totally agree is solidly based in God's Word.

Long ago I was confused about the KJV wording "confirm the covenant" in Dan.9:27. But a closer study in Daniel 11 about the "vile person" reveals the idea of confirming the covenant is actually about his making a "league" (pact) to re-institute the old covenant worship. That is why starting animal sacrifices and building another Jewish temple in Jerusalem is required for the Daniel 11:31 verse to be fulfilled.

Now here's the funny part...

Those against what he taught in that video from God's Word just so happen to teach specifically against those very specific points he covered.

Coincidence maybe?? I don't think so. The devil knows exactly how all those pieces of Bible Scripture fit together, from the Book of Daniel to our Lord Jesus' Olivet discourse to His Revelation given to His servant John. Afterall, the devil even quoted from the Psalms in tempting our Lord Jesus, adding just one little phrase that changed its meaning (Luke 4).

Nope, Jesus is the prince that confirms the covenant with many.

Lea, I'm seconding your reply.  Jesus certainly was Messiah the Prince, as you have said.  As the promised "messenger of the covenant" (Mal. 3:1), Jesus was prophesied to "confirm the covenant with many" of Daniel's people during that last 70th week from AD 30 through AD 37.  Jesus did this personally during the first 3-1/2 years of His ministry, and vicariously through His apostles  as leaders over the early church in Jerusalem during those last 3-1/2 years when they would "sit upon 12 thrones, judging the 12 tribes of Israel", as He promised them in Matthew 19:28.

There is no reference at all to the "vile person" (Antiochus Epiphanes) of Daniel 11 to be found in Daniel 9:25-27's reference to Messiah the Prince.  That's totally out of context.   Dpr is doing some confused conflating there, for sure.  One day I'll put up a post with a link to a source that gives a historical chronology for the entire chapter of Daniel 11 with names and pertinent dates that are a precise match for scripture's chronology.


For raggthyme13,

Not having read everything you have written in the past about "futurists", I'm not sure which comments you are retracting.  But I can appreciate your humble, teachable spirit as expressed above.  None of the eschatological camps are without error thrown into the mix, that's certain.  This is why I try to pick through all of them to try to salvage the truthful elements and combine them into a homogenous whole system - one that is as error-free as I can get it this side of glory.

You are absolutely correct in your assessment that Jesus is coming again, and that we are to live accountably with that expectation.  You are also absolutely correct that your former arguments for Matthew 24 and Luke 21 prophecy being applicable to that first-century generation were sensible ones. 

The only way these two truths you are seeing can be unified is for Christ Jesus to have programmed a SECOND *AND* A THIRD COMING, in AD 70 as well as in our future.  Just like the parable He gave that mentioned Him coming at *BOTH* THE SECOND *AND* THE THIRD WATCH of the night.  If the servants were found faithfully serving when He returned BOTH TIMES, both sets of servants would be blessed (Luke 12:38 YLT).

Anyone would have to be purposefully dense to avoid seeing the entire world building to a crisis at present, as you are stating.  But we are not presently building up to Christ's next, third return in our very near future - sorry to disappoint.  As I have mentioned before on a few posts, we are building up to a crisis point where the whole world will go fallow at the beginning of the final 7th millennium period of human history - just like the land of Israel lay fallow for 70 years to "enjoy its Sabbaths".  God can do His best work at building His kingdom when we can "BE STILL and know that I am God".   It is then that He can best fulfill His intentions in Psalms 46:10.  "I will be exalted among the heathen, I will be exalted in the earth".

Quote from: lea on Thu Apr 09, 2020 - 16:47:14
Nope, Jesus is the prince that confirms the covenant with many.

Jesus did not confirm any covenant for 7 years and then break it in the middle. Your agenda against even the 'simple' reading of the Daniel 9:27 verse belongs somewhere else, like on a Judaizer forum.

Quote from: dpr on Sat Apr 11, 2020 - 14:00:15
Jesus did not confirm any covenant for 7 years and then break it in the middle. Your agenda against even the 'simple' reading of the Daniel 9:27 verse belongs somewhere else, like on a Judaizer forum.

The Text doesn't say anything about "the Prince" confirming a covenant for 7 Years You injected your theory there.
The Bible says that in the middle of the week He will be cut off, but not because of Himself.  Do you understand that Jesus preached for some 3-1/2 years and was crucified then? So, you must reevaluate your idea Jesus ending the covenant Himself, as you say.

Do you know what the other 3/12 years refer to? Do you know for sure Daniel's 70 week prophecy?

Quote from: lea on Tue Mar 31, 2020 - 18:08:55
Just the opposite.  Preterism is true while futurism is wanting and waiting.

Preterism proves that Jesus was not a false prophet and returned to receive those remnant apostles to Himself as he promised them.

In reality, your "antichrist garbage" for today is big, bad news..

Get with the Good News!

  It's very-obvious Jesus has NOT yet returned.

  And again, history & reality prove preterism false. I have repeatedly asked for **PROOF** that the events prets SAY have already occurred, actually HAVE already occurred, & all i've seen is conjecture & guesswork.

  The world is still going right on, as it did in 65 AD, 70 AD, & 75 AD. When Jesus retirns, the world will be greatly altered from what it now is. For that matter, the antichrist will alter it greatly, not to mention the great trib. And it's very-obvious these things haven't yet occurred !

Quote from: robycop3 on Fri Apr 17, 2020 - 04:57:08

  It's very-obvious Jesus has NOT yet returned.

  And again, history & reality prove preterism false. I have repeatedly asked for **PROOF** that the events prets SAY have already occurred, actually HAVE already occurred, & all i've seen is conjecture & guesswork.

  The world is still going right on, as it did in 65 AD, 70 AD, & 75 AD. When Jesus retirns, the world will be greatly altered from what it now is. For that matter, the antichrist will alter it greatly, not to mention the great trib. And it's very-obvious these things haven't yet occurred !

In Daniel 9:24 the Lord said that Seventy Weeks were determined to seal up vision and prophecy. This term "seal vision and prophecy" is tremendously significant. It means that seventy weeks were assigned by God for the fulfillment of all prophecy! Daniel 9 is concerned with Israel and the fulfillment of her promises-- not the end of time, or the end of the Christian age. Daniel 9 does in fact predict the time of the fulfillment of all prophecy.  Daniel 9 posits the end of the seventy weeks at the time of the destruction of the city and temple in AD 70. ~Don K. Preston

Quote from: lea on Fri Apr 17, 2020 - 18:16:54
In Daniel 9:24 the Lord said that Seventy Weeks were determined to seal up vision and prophecy. This term "seal vision and prophecy" is tremendously significant. It means that seventy weeks were assigned by God for the fulfillment of all prophecy! Daniel 9 is concerned with Israel and the fulfillment of her promises-- not the end of time, or the end of the Christian age. Daniel 9 does in fact predict the time of the fulfillment of all prophecy.  Daniel 9 posits the end of the seventy weeks at the time of the destruction of the city and temple in AD 70. ~Don K. Preston

  Of course, Preston was wrong. You really should stop reading the bunk of those charlatans, as you start believing it.

  Once again, it's quite-obvious there's a LOT of prophecy yet to be fulfilled, including all the eschatological events. The Revelation was not given just to fill in some blank scrolls.

  I, and others, have repeatedly asked for **PROOF** of past fulfillments of those events. We ask sarcastically, knowing that no such proof exists.

  For instance, Rev. 3:10 says the great trib will come upon THE WHOLE WORLD, & the context of the descriptions of its plagues back up that statement. It simply hasn't happened yet.

Quote from: robycop3 on Sat Apr 18, 2020 - 08:13:04
  Of course, Preston was wrong. You really should stop reading the bunk of those charlatans, as you start believing it.

  Once again, it's quite-obvious there's a LOT of prophecy yet to be fulfilled, including all the eschatological events. The Revelation was not given just to fill in some blank scrolls.

  I, and others, have repeatedly asked for **PROOF** of past fulfillments of those events. We ask sarcastically, knowing that no such proof exists.

  For instance, Rev. 3:10 says the great trib will come upon THE WHOLE WORLD, & the context of the descriptions of its plagues back up that statement. It simply hasn't happened yet.

Preston makes more money than you because he's wiser!

Quote from: lea on Sat Apr 25, 2020 - 15:06:28
Preston makes more money than you because he's wiser!

...And more of a tale-teller !

Quote from: robycop3 on Sat Apr 25, 2020 - 17:06:46
...And more of a tale-teller !

Nope. We are both cooler than you. 

Quote from: lea on Sat Apr 25, 2020 - 18:07:54
Nope. We are both cooler than you. 

  And apparently a lot more Scripture & history-ignorant !

Quote from: robycop3 on Sun Apr 26, 2020 - 07:10:54
  And apparently a lot more Scripture & history-ignorant !

Wow, you must be looking in the mirror when you say that!

Don't include all Christians and the world today with your doom and gloom fortune/ future-telling.

Read and type something uplifting the Faith, not project uninspiring empty statements which you can't prove the future with. Only God knows the future.

We look to Him for guidance and prayer every day. That's the good news of salvation.

Perceive like us, Jesus' spiritual kingdom which is here now.
Luke 21:20When asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, Jesus replied, "The kingdom of God will not come with observable signs. 21Nor will people say, 'Look, here it is,' or 'There it is.' For you see, the kingdom of God is in your midst."

You have nothing to counter.  The past is gone. Realize that.

Quote from: lea on Thu Apr 16, 2020 - 15:10:27
The Text doesn't say anything about "the Prince" confirming a covenant for 7 Years You injected your theory there.
The Bible says that in the middle of the week He will be cut off, but not because of Himself.  Do you understand that Jesus preached for some 3-1/2 years and was crucified then? So, you must reevaluate your idea Jesus ending the covenant Himself, as you say.

Do you know what the other 3/12 years refer to? Do you know for sure Daniel's 70 week prophecy?

The interjection into the Daniel Scripture is yours, per the traditions of men you hold to.

Simple grammar requires one to pickup the subject of the 'he' in Dan.9:27 by going back to the previous Dan.9:26 prince that was to destroy the sanctuary and city, which was the Roman general Titus who's Roman army destroyed Jerusalem and the temple in 69 A.D. Thing is though, with that Dan.9:26 verse there's more info given after the description of what that evil prince does.

Dan 9:26
The people of the ruler who will come will destroy the city and the sanctuary. The end will come like a flood: War will continue until the end, and desolations have been decreed.
NIV


The 'end' being referred to is actually about the very end of this world involving the final Antichrist. The 'he' in Dan.9:27 is about a final Antichrist. And we today already know more about that coming Antichrist for the end of this world which is covered in Christ's Revelation...

Rev 12:15-17
15 And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.

16 And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.

17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
KJV

dpr- Ok. this is fun! It's not about the grammar here. And there are several Bible renderings that do twist the paragraphs inaccurately.
Look at chapter 9 . There were certain "works" if you will, God told Daniel that Israel had to do in the seventy weeks of sevens prophecy to save themselves and their city.
Note Messiah the prince in v.25.
So 69 weeks until Messiah the prince. Verse 27 refers back to Messiah the prince making a strong covenant with many for one week. (70 week) Hebrew Christians (many) accepted Jesus and the new covenant of grace and salvation.
Only a deity in the Bible can make a "covenant." It's not a "treaty" or called anything else.

Also, it could not be Titus because he is the ruler to come in v.26 and Titus didn't cut off the sacrificing and offering in the middle of the 70th week. Jesus, the Messiah brought an end to the sacrifice and offering by offering up Himself as the ultimate sacrifice in AD30 or 33.

Then the end of v.27 describes Titus, (Daniel's 11th horn in ch.7) delving out God's wrath on those who crucified the Messiah after 691/2 weeks.  The times, time, and a half time (3 1/2 years - the 42 months) all represent the Great and Terrible day of God in Malachi 4.

"Seventy [e]weeks are determined
For your people and for your holy city,
To finish the transgression,
[f]To make an end of sins,
To make reconciliation for iniquity,
To bring in everlasting righteousness,
To seal up vision and prophecy,
And to anoint [g]the Most Holy.

25
"Know therefore and understand,
That from the going forth of the command
To restore and build Jerusalem
Until Messiah the Prince,
There shall be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks;
The [h]street shall be built again, and the wall,
Even in troublesome times.

26
"And after the sixty-two weeks
Messiah shall [j]be cut off, but not for Himself;
And the people of the prince who is to come
Shall destroy the city and the sanctuary.
The end of it shall be with a flood,
And till the end of the war desolations are determined.
27
Then he shall confirm a [k]covenant with many for one week;
But in the middle of the week
He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering.
And on the wing of abominations shall be one who makes desolate,
Even until the consummation, which is determined,
Is poured out on the [l]desolate."

And I don't think Rev.12 refers to the great tribulation. The woman was protected from the dragon... the woman is the rebirthed Israel in Christ. This "woman" fulfills the "strong covenant with many for one week."

  While Jesus fulfilled all the sacrificial requirements of God's law, the Jews went right on sacrificing at the temple, as they'd done for centuries.

  And the Jews plan to begin sacrificing again when the new temple is built. THAT will be when the antichrist ends those sacrifices.

Quote from: robycop3 on Mon Apr 27, 2020 - 08:24:04
  While Jesus fulfilled all the sacrificial requirements of God's law, the Jews went right on sacrificing at the temple, as they'd done for centuries.

  And the Jews plan to begin sacrificing again when the new temple is built. THAT will be when the antichrist ends those sacrifices.

Extreme Zionism.  And promoting cruelty to animals is a sin and against the law.

Quote from: lea on Mon Apr 27, 2020 - 18:52:57
Extreme Zionism.  And promoting cruelty to animals is a sin and against the law.

Like it or not, that's the Jews' plan.

  Speaking of animal cruelty, are you a veggie? Do you have a dog or cat? If you have either one, recently, a cow or horse died so little Fifi or Pusswell could eat.

Quote from: robycop3 on Tue Apr 28, 2020 - 06:20:47
Like it or not, that's the Jews' plan.

  Speaking of animal cruelty, are you a veggie? Do you have a dog or cat? If you have either one, recently, a cow or horse died so little Fifi or Pusswell could eat.

Horse meat happens when the animal dies.

Jews plan?  You mean Rabbinic Judaism and not the Biblical Hebrews

I am rooting for Christians, not unsaved heathen Jews who mock Christ. Open up some of the videos that come from Israel and look see how they still mock the Messiah!  Saw a puppet video where the Zionist girl was whipping a puppet Christ with a belt.

Quote from: lea on Sat May 02, 2020 - 11:48:17

Horse meat happens when the animal dies.

Jews plan?  You mean Rabbinic Judaism and not the Biblical Hebrews

I am rooting for Christians, not unsaved heathen Jews who mock Christ. Open up some of the videos that come from Israel and look see how they still mock the Messiah!  Saw a puppet video where the Zionist girl was whipping a puppet Christ with a belt.

  I'm quite aware that the Jews still reject Jesus as Messiah. But He's gonna make them know who He is in no uncertain manner when His time comes, & He will then shortly purge all unbelievers from among them. (and the rest of Israel.)

Quote from: robycop3 on Sat May 02, 2020 - 13:33:12
  I'm quite aware that the Jews still reject Jesus as Messiah. But He's gonna make them know who He is in no uncertain manner when His time comes, & He will then shortly purge all unbelievers from among them. (and the rest of Israel.)

You playing God again!

Quote from: val5662 on Mon Jan 01, 2018 - 12:07:23
Hi All....
Does everyone know the next big event coming any day or year to our planet?
No, it's not Jesus coming back to reign for a thousand years.
It's the seven year peace plan.
You can lose your soul if you are deceived by the coming Antichrist.
Here is the best short video I have found explaining this end times prophecy in detail.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iPRDpUvrldo
Have a great day!

There is no seven year peace plan anywhere in the Bible.

Quote from: bbyrd009 on Mon Jan 01, 2018 - 12:28:53
give no thought for the morrow; today has enough evil in it

Besides that, everyone has their end time. It has always fascinated me how religious men spend so much time trying to see a future that even Jesus didn't know when would come. He comes as a thief in the middle of the night, when you are least expecting it, BAM, you time of testing is over and you go wait with Abraham and Daniel for the resurrection of both the just and the unjust.

Jesus said to always be ready, so that your end time doesn't catch you unawares.

"give no thought for the morrow; today has enough evil in it"

Perfect response to the OP.

GB, Jesus' "Sermon on the Mount" has nothing to do with the apostate Jews end time!

And Jesus did not imply that everyone has their end time.  He is describing an absolute foundation of faith-  in the Beatitudes!

I didn't come into "end times" subject until I was fully grounded in the faith.

Sir, there is no end times for us Christians anymore. We are reaping what the early Christians sowed.

Everyone having their "end" is just that.  We die and Jesus is right there receiving us to himself.

Jesus doesn't come as a thief in the night for Christians. Especially Christians who are alive! And NEVER as a thief!

God gave Jesus the Revelation (Rev.1) All was to happen soon according to the Father's decree. Do you get the gist of that?

So, look at Revelation again. God gave the time (soon) to Jesus to John.

We don't need to stand vigilant for anything! We just need to pray and stand on God's promise for us.
In love, and thank you.

Quote from: lea on Sat May 09, 2020 - 17:23:14
GB, Jesus' "Sermon on the Mount" has nothing to do with the apostate Jews end time!

And Jesus did not imply that everyone has their end time.  He is describing an absolute foundation of faith-  in the Beatitudes!

I didn't come into "end times" subject until I was fully grounded in the faith.

Sir, there is no end times for us Christians anymore. We are reaping what the early Christians sowed.

Everyone having their "end" is just that.  We die and Jesus is right there receiving us to himself.

Jesus doesn't come as a thief in the night for Christians. Especially Christians who are alive! And NEVER as a thief!

God gave Jesus the Revelation (Rev.1) All was to happen soon according to the Father's decree. Do you get the gist of that?

So, look at Revelation again. God gave the time (soon) to Jesus to John.

We don't need to stand vigilant for anything! We just need to pray and stand on God's promise for us.
In love, and thank you.

1 Thess. 5:1 But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.

2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.

3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.

5 Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.

6 Therefore let us not sleep, (Be Vigilant) as do others; but let us watch (Be Vigilant ) and be sober.

7 For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night.

8 But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation. 9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

Vigilant means to "Watch", to "keep awake".

I don't believe the very popular religious teaching that we are all set, already there, and that "We don't need to stand vigilant for anything". I understand how attractive and comforting this religious doctrines sounds. "Peace and Safety" But the Scriptures say we are to "HOPE" for Salvation, not sleep as if we are already guaranteed salvation.  Paul certainly doesn't instruct the Thessalonians in this manner as he shows in his instruction to them above..

And Peter also believes we should be vigilant, and Watch so that was are not caught unawares. .

1 Peter 5:8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour: 9 Whom resist stedfast in the faith, knowing that the same afflictions are accomplished in your brethren that are in the world.

And Jesus Himself also warned of the teaching of religious men who preach "Peace and Safety".

Matt. 24:4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you. 5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many. 12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold. 13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Endure means to "bear trials, have fortitude, persevere, abide.

I don't know who told you the followers of the Christ do not need to stand Vigilant for anything. But in all due respect, it goes exactly opposite of what the scriptures tell us to be.

Luke 21:34 And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares.

35 For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth.

36 Watch ye therefore, (Be Vigilant) and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

I respectfully disagree with your reply based on the evidence posted above. I mean no offence.

Quote from: lea on Tue Feb 25, 2020 - 18:34:28
I almost forgot I posted on this topic in 2018!
You're still way off dpr!
First, Jesus told the apostles and his disciples they were the elect. You want to include 21 century believers there, but you and I are not the "elect" in the Bible. Get off that horse and realize the "audience relevance" in the Bible., prophecy or not. Did you evangelize during the first century? Did you bring the gospel to all the known world at that time and suffer a beheading for it by enemies of the gospel? Sigh, did you tabernacle with Jesus in the flesh as the apostles did?
We are not the elect who gave up everything for the gospel of the kingdom's sake! So learn to read scripture with audience relevance in mind.

Next, God is not a respecter of persons.  Earthly Jerusalem Israel today is not Biblical Jerusalem. The heavenly, spiritual Jerusalem is where "righteousness dwells." We see an earthly rendering of it in Rev.21,22. That was the whole point of God separating national Israel of the flesh only and true Israel- Messianic Jews and Gentile Christians.
You're in horror fantasy land if you think that we should be worried about ANY deceiver in our future big time. Know and have peace about the conclusion of the Bible.

You say "it's truly sad" but I'm not interest in feelings. I know the reality that is here now and it is not about our present time. It was the 1st century Christian"present time."  So ponder the audience relevance and you will wind up finding yourself in a state of GRACE and favor., having angels for protection and blessings for the present and future!

Meditate on God's promises and only listen to sermons about faith and grace, not "end time" excuses for not having anything else to preach about.

Apparently you are ignorant or willingly ignorant of the 50 to 125 million Christians who were imprisoned, put to the sword, tortured, or burned alive at the stake during the dark ages for believing and preaching the gospel of Jesus Christ. Not to mention the many more recent Christians suffering similar fates around the world today. Your own experience of apparent ignorant bliss does not equal the experience of the rest of Christ's present day or past body, or even the truth at all in relation to the same. So be it. Continue upon your ignorant merry way.

Quote from: Amo on Sat Jun 06, 2020 - 12:33:17
Apparently you are ignorant or willingly ignorant of the 50 to 125 million Christians who were imprisoned, put to the sword, tortured, or burned alive at the stake during the dark ages for believing and preaching the gospel of Jesus Christ. Not to mention the many more recent Christians suffering similar fates around the world today. Your own experience of apparent ignorant bliss does not equal the experience of the rest of Christ's present day or past body, or even the truth at all in relation to the same. So be it. Continue upon your ignorant merry way.

I'm aware of those martyrs, but they weren't the inspired apostles and disciples the Bible speaks about.

Ignorance is bliss when you tell me other Christians are suffering today.  I feel for everyone who is suffering, but I disconnect when you relate it to the "end times" in the Bible.

Anyway,
Did not the johnny- come- lately worker in Jesus' parable get paid the same as the workers who were there all day?

Just because I may not have been born-again until 30 or so, I still am promised to have life-changing grace now and future.

I'm not worried about the past, even when I found out about Eschatology.  Jesus already gave me peace and maybe a bit of wisdom about it.  I have high hopes that the Lord will continue
with His blessings and freedom to love and always look for what's still good around.

So be thankful.  I'm thankful to be born in the U.S.A..... Evil people have to reckon with our laws more so I think than anywhere else.

Quote from: lea on Sun Apr 26, 2020 - 17:57:52
dpr- Ok. this is fun! It's not about the grammar here. And there are several Bible renderings that do twist the paragraphs inaccurately.
Look at chapter 9 . There were certain "works" if you will, God told Daniel that Israel had to do in the seventy weeks of sevens prophecy to save themselves and their city.
Note Messiah the prince in v.25.
So 69 weeks until Messiah the prince. Verse 27 refers back to Messiah the prince making a strong covenant with many for one week. (70 week) Hebrew Christians (many) accepted Jesus and the new covenant of grace and salvation.

You are not staying with the Daniel scriptures, because you cannot rely solely on one verse like you're doing with Daniel 9:27.

The 69th week of the prophecy ended with Christ's crucifixion (29 A.D.). That ended reference to Jesus in that prophecy. Then the subject of the one who comes to destroy the city and sanctuary becomes the next topic, and continues into the Dan.9:27 verse...

Dan 9:26-27
26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
KJV

The subject flow of the "he" is about that same one that destroys the city and sanctuary. That represented the Roman general Titus as a type of antichrist. Except in final, it's about a false one who does something else with the sanctuary that Titus never did. The final false one spiritually desolates the sanctuary with an idol abomination. Now we well know once Titus destroyed Jerusalem and the temple, that ended any ability for sacrifices by the Jews, and ending them in the middle of a 7 year period like the Daniel 9:27 verse says. So it's a no brainer that the Dan.9:27 verse is pointing further on down the road with another 'type' of antichrist. Per Revelation 13 with the setting up of the "image of the beast" by the "dragon", whom we are told the whole world will worship, that is the Antichrist the Dan.9:27 verse is ultimately pointing to.