Why Do You Stay?

marc · Mon Aug 12, 2002 - 17:51:40

Skip, thanks--I actually thought I wwas doing the second thing you mention. I had tried to fuse my point with what was being said and also mention how opinions the teacher had expressed in previous classes agreed with this, but the response was still more defensive than I had hoped, so apparantly I didn't do this as well as I thought I had.

nerdneh · Fri Aug 16, 2002 - 09:40:16

Congregations, I have decided, are a lot like families. Some families are loving and accepting, not perfect mind you, but they will go out on a limb for you, and you love to be with them. Some families are destructive and toxic. They rely on shame and guilt, fussing and rules, and you will be diminished in such a family. You will be taught to shut up and not rock the boat, and never, never question the dynamic.

The healthy church, like the healthy family is all about growing. In the church we should be growing closer to the Lord and to one another. You enjoy inviting people to churches like this. Evangelism is not a chore, it is a privilege.

You love to invite people to share in the good attitudes that your healthy family exudes, but you would be afraid to invite any one to come into a family that will make them feel bad and where the attitudes are destructive.

Whenever you are ashamed to invite folks to church because you are afraid they will be manipulated and controlled, then that church needs to open up to the Lord and let the Lord lead them out of their toxicity.

We have to recognize that the damage done by toxic churches is about as bad as the damage done by toxic families. And the good that is done by supportive and accepting churches is as good an experience as being raised in a loving and accepting family.

janine · Thu Aug 15, 2002 - 13:37:26

(I'm going to talk to myself for a moment here... y'all can listen, & get anything useful to yourself out of it...)

:) Janine, you will never, ever find a congregation where everyone either agrees with you, or is so open to honest debate that it's a joy to disagree with them.

:) Janine, do not imagine that the people around you at the "worship service" are the only Christians you can draw love & challenge from.

:) Janine, the leadership of your congregation do not lie awake nights trying to think up ways to squelch your spirit.

:) Janine, as long as you remain open to the Lord in His Word and His Spirit, the congregation will have at least one source of truth... and don't get the big head over it, because there are many more that you honestly trying to please God.

:) Janine, it may be your allotted "place" in the Lord's body to "comfort the afflicted and afflict the comfortable."

:) Janine, never-ever fall into such a desire to be "right" and to have everyone else "be right", that you adopt the attitudes and methods of the very people who think you're a flaming liberal... remember now, people before position, souls before "certainty"...

I could go on talking to myself all day. If you can't talk to yourself, who can you talk to? But, I've got a life waiting for me behind my computer chair...

If you think up anything I can add to my list of self-encouragement, please post it.

Thanks! IHS JC :)

Lacy · Fri Aug 16, 2002 - 17:18:01

Janine,

No Janine, everyone who read that publication opposed music--it was the non-music coC talking to themselves. As to whether or not I "embraced" music, that wasn't even a consideration. I didn't "Join the Christian Church," and the author of the article didn't know my position on music--I had never expressed it. I only said Eph. 5 doesn't teach it. Being a Gospel preacher, I have always tried to preach what the Gospel (and the Letters) say, not what they do not say; and they do not say anything one way or another about instruments of music. I have no argument with either side about having or not having music, but I do oppose making a law regarding it and binding it on the church.

Furthermore, the brother who wrote the article had never said a word to me about music before he wrote the article.

Lacy

Lacy · Sun Aug 18, 2002 - 23:28:20

Janine,

The non-mucic Church of Christ of which I spoke is the Independent Christian Church, who call ethemselvs Church of Christ also. That's the name they use in front of their buildings. (After I left the non-music church I taught a Bible class in the Norton Church of Christ in Whitehall (Columbus), OH, which had music. That's why I got the dishonorable mention in the brother hood paper saying, "Brother Williams has left the Lord's church, joined the Christian church and has embraced musdic.")

Just as the non-music church distinguished itself from the Christian Church (Disciples) in the census of 1906, another group broke away in 1968, adopting the same name. Whereas the 1906 group had opposed music since before its intrusion into the Movement in KY in 1852, I believe, the secone group left the Disciples in 1968, as the result of a disagreement which had brewed for several years over the Disciples involvement in The Consultation of Christian Unity (COCU), in which they were trying to merge--or at least form a union--with half a dozen other denominations.

So, there are two churches of Christ--one without music and another with music. The former have annual "Lectureship" at the universities, in which they discuss their polity, politics and pitfalls, whereas the latter, conducts their annual North American Christian Convention.

This will clear up my former statement about my experiences in the two churches of Christ.

Lacy

Wed Aug 21, 2002 - 07:34:21

I am learning a lot here at Grace-centered, for sure. It has finally dawned upon me that if we had one representative from every Church of Christ with or w/o instruments; one from every Christian Church/Church of Christ; one from every Christian Church/Disciple of Christ; there would be that many reasons given for all the dreadful splits we have experienced through the years. I thought there were only a couple of reasons! Well, maybe 10 or 12 or....

Actually, what we learned about the Christian (Church of Christ Instrumental) and Disciples split in my central Ohio town was that in the early 50s the Disciples decides to have a National Missionary Society, and the ones who became siimply Christian Churches (Churches of Christ instrumental) wanted to, as they believed Biblically, keep their autonomy and not have any "head."

Actually, the NACC does not, at least to this current year, have any authority to act on the behalf of the Christian Churches/Churches of Christ. All congregations remain autonomous. The NACC, at least to this point, was to be a time of learning, fellowship, worship and flow of information.

I have been encouraged to see some Christian Churches/Disciples coming together to explore the things we have in common and focus on the commonality rather than the differences. I have also been encouraged that more movement is being made to bridge the gap with our non-instrumental brothers and sisters.

I sometimes feel out of place here, like I may be intruding, and although we have the same Bible, I must confess the only "literature" I ever saw was the Gospel Advocate that my Grandpa got in the mail. That, to me, was like something written in a different language. Sometimes, the pages actually seemed to arrive scorched around the edges, so heated was the condemnation of people like me!

An ancestral uncle was given land in Ohio as pay for his service in the Revolutionary War, and some of my family has been in a CofC since its birth after those famous revival meetings in southern Ohio/West Virginia/Kentucky. My great-great grandfather and great grandfather served as elders in a little Church of Christ in southern Ohio since the 1800s. My maternal great-aunt and her family attended a Disciples Church, and my paternal grandfather is the non-instrumental CofC. We all loved one another and judged not. We attended one another's churches when we visited back and forth.

I like the purity of voice in a capella music. I like instrumental music. I like voices and instruments together. I just like to sing, period. I'll do it any way I can get it
:p

mclifft · Fri Jul 19, 2002 - 04:51:25

I ought to add, too, that I haven't had time to read all of the discussion thoroughly yet. I am speaking without that background. :0

Missy

Booty · Fri Jul 19, 2002 - 12:19:06

Why do I stay in the church of Christ, instrumental or non instrumental, is not actually a valid question. I am church of Christ by His Holy grace and mercy irrespective of the name on the door....Well perhaps that was a poor choice of word as we don't have any walls yet to put doors in!!

I am afraid there are one or more Denominations which have usurped the name Church of Christ. I have discovered on this board and others and also in national preachers meetings that we have very little in common with some of them. While that is troubling at times as I hate to think that visitors to our area may hear our name and decide to stay away because of bad experiences with the talibans, I strongly believe we are to trust in the Lord. It is His name on the door, not mine. I trust Him to address those who are in error, be it us or be it the legalists.

In the following quote from a boyo from Belfast I have been corresponding with. I told him we were gracecentered and not legalists and received the response quoted below. I see something that troubles me deeply. His strong conviction that it is impossible to be a Christian and not a legalist. Who is he to judge the servant of another? Is it not Christ Jesus who says who is a Christian and who is not?

[!--QuoteBegin--][/span][table border=\"0\" align=\"center\" width=\"95%\" cellpadding=\"3\" cellspacing=\"1\"][tr][td]Quote [/td][/tr][tr][td id=\"QUOTE\"][!--QuoteEBegin--]I am sorry to say that it is obvious that we both
follow different religions so there is very little we
would have in common on that score. We ARE legalists,
in fact I believe that it is impossible to be a
Christian and not a legalist. Legalism is:
"Attribution of great importance to law or formulated
rule." (Oxford Dictionary)and a legalist is:
?A person versed in the law; a person who views things
from a legal standpoint.? (Oxford Dictionary)- in the
Christian sense one who knows the law of Christ and
views all life in its light.[/quote]

(By the by, I am checking and apparently by "the law of Christ" he is most certainly not just referring to the two great commandments of love. He appears to have a system of beliefs which would cause even some of the most radical talibans to take pause.

Now he goes by the same name as we do. Would I be served the elements when I visit his congregation? I doubt it. Would he be served the Holy Supper here? gladly. Would I be asked to preach in his congregation while visiting? Tee Hee Hee!! and Mary isn't the mother of Jesus!! Would he be welcome in our pulpits? Of course, our congregations are well based in scripture and we can generally discern what is based on the teachings of Jesus and what is man's dogma. Now our custom of rising to defend the word might unnerve him, but then perhaps that lesson might be needed.

So we share the name, but he says, "I am sorry to say that it is obvious that we both follow different religions so there is very little we would have in common on that score. We ARE legalists, in fact I believe that it is impossible to be a
Christian and not a legalist." It is obvious by this statement who is leaving who, who is forcing this division. Thus should I leave the name because of our differences?

I have no differences with the Lord, Jesus Christ, nor do I want any. It is His name on the door and not my friend's from Ulster, I will not leave the name, it is ours.

As to instruments, well we really do not have the room for a piano at present. We'll worry about planting that field when it's time comes.

david johnson · Fri Jul 19, 2002 - 15:56:02

barry:

good, i'm glad some inst. groups will go un-aided at times.
as far as us, it's always a cappella.
how is your website? i haven't visited in a week or so.

dj

Jeff · Sat Jul 20, 2002 - 04:35:18

[!--QuoteBegin--][/span][table border=\"0\" align=\"center\" width=\"95%\" cellpadding=\"3\" cellspacing=\"1\"][tr][td]Quote [/td][/tr][tr][td id=\"QUOTE\"][!--QuoteEBegin--]We often sing one verse of a song or a whole song acapella. It's completely up to our worship minister. She sometimes holds the instruments back at times when she is trying to lead us into a time of prayer or something like that. How often does your congregation sing with musical accompaniment?

[/quote]

She??? Lead??? AAAAAHHHHHH!!!!
(brings up a whole nother subject!)

:D :D Kidding, I'm just kidding... but you know there are those who would not be!

Bill · Sun Jul 21, 2002 - 00:32:19

Barry

It seems to me that your thinking is as twisted as those who believe IM is a Heaven or Hell issue.

:p :D If we prefer a ccapella can't we just do that? We had two fellows use a guitar during "Sharing Sunday" and sometimes a person will use a recorded IM song on that last Sunday of the month. Will that put us on track to be viewed as non-legalistic? ;)

I thought legalism was laying on something God didn't require. If we require a congregation to use IM at least part of the time, aren't we doing the same thing as requiring a ccapella? Do we have to buy a piano or organ? :0

Bill

[!--EDIT|Bill|July 20 2002,5:02--]

pdwblw · Mon Jul 22, 2002 - 14:55:22

Booty,
Pardon my ignorance but are you serious? What is the reasoning behind that kind of "discipline?"

Booty · Tue Jul 23, 2002 - 01:32:34

[!--QuoteBegin--][/span][table border=\"0\" align=\"center\" width=\"95%\" cellpadding=\"3\" cellspacing=\"1\"][tr][td]Quote [/td][/tr][tr][td id=\"QUOTE\"][!--QuoteEBegin--]The current Sunday night class (which the whole church participates in) is basically "why we are right and everybody else is wrong". So now what will I do? [/quote]

Marc, Some years ago friends of ours faced similar circumstances. To this day their answer should ring clear to each of us,

"Whether it be right in the sight of God to hearken unto you more than unto God, judge ye."

Do we serve Him, who is just to all, when we sit and condone injustice by our silence?

Peace at any cost? Unity at any cost? How often do we hear this and ignore the teachings of Jesus in the 12th chapter of Luke?

Is our faith in Him so weak we must weekly and weakly reinforce it by studying "why we are right and everybody else is wrong"?
Sunday evenings Marc listen attentively, you will hear our prayers for you.

Booty · Tue Jul 23, 2002 - 20:02:24

Patricia,

Don't ask us love. Ask the Lord.

It appears from your post that you already have, so listen to His answer.

God Bless.

Lacy · Mon Jul 29, 2002 - 03:25:08

Greetings,

As I grew up in a "school house" CoC in WV, we would never have thought of using an instrument in church. But, I remember well, in the afternoon my mother would play her old treadle organ while neighbors, some of whom weren't even Christians, would play guitars or banjos, and they would sing the same hymns we had sung in church. Church singing was rather blane but home singing with instruments came alive. Could it be that the unbelievers "sanctified" the service and gave the Christians a boost! I questioned this practice and got an answer, "In our home we are just practicint; we worship at church."

But, it isn't mine to reason why, it's only mine to "put my hand over my mouth and walk out the door," as A. Campbell said when he left the Baptist Association, saying, "Sometimes that's all one can do."

But again, "To each hisen."

Lacy

Booty · Mon Aug 12, 2002 - 12:21:58

Marc,

Now is the time to seriously study the Bible and the lessons of Jesus. Always remember the wise response of Peter and John, "Do you think God wants us to obey you rather than him?

Stay focussed on the Lord and His grace. Remember your salvation comes from Him and not from a group of men,no matter how dominant they may wish to eppear.

God Bless and you are in my prayers.

seekr · Mon Aug 12, 2002 - 18:12:08

marc, Do not put too many expectations upon yourself when it comes to the fact that you are still just flesh, and guided by the Spirit. None of us can speak up perfectly...but we still can allow the Spirit to express what God would have us say. Sometimes God wants our silence and sometimes He wants us to speak up. Listen to Him and pray for wisdom and He will provide you with it. It is a shame that you get rebuked by those who think they hold ALL of the truth. That is why I was kicked out...could not, would not follow the dictates of man. The truth will always stir up controversy. Sometimes you know you are following God BECAUSE of the flak you are getting. Those who are supposed to hear the truth, will. Keep looking to God.

seekr

Morris · Fri Aug 16, 2002 - 06:49:27

One of the greatest blessings I have experienced being a Chaplain is working with people of many denominations and even other religions. I have experienced the joy of cooperative ministry and being ministered to by people, who were significantly different from me in religious conviction. Wherever you go, whatever group you are with, you will find that bond among those devoted to their faith because for the most part religious people tend to value nurturing and service.

I don't think it hurts for a person to move on to a different group when that group is more in sync with where he or she is in their spiritual pilgrimage. If it happens all the time and a person can never settle down, or never find a spiritual home, I'd say it's a problem. But sometimes we just would fit better somewhere else. I personally, would not be comfortable with a steady diet of legalism. That's not to say they are less Christian than I am. I once was comfortable there, but now I'm not. Ministry and bonding will go on in virtually all the churches, regardless of the style or theological emphasis. They are all good, its just that some fit better than others. It's not wrong to seek a better fit and you will find that bond of love in every type of group, with few exceptions. Some churches are more controlling and abusive. Those should be avoided; otherwise there are a lot of good folks out there.

Nicholas · Thu Aug 15, 2002 - 02:38:53

I would also like to say thanks to everyone for the words of advice and encouragement. These decisions are difficult. Trying to consider the wife and kids without slowly suffocating myself is hard. The last thing I want is to turn into a sour, joyless, cynic. :angry: In the words of the
Wicked Witch(wizard of oz) I'm melting...I'm melti..I'm me....poof

Nicholas......saved by grace

janine · Fri Aug 16, 2002 - 15:08:31

But everyone who read that brotherhood publication embraced music. Brother Williams might have embraced instrumental music, maybe, I don't know his heart...

I suppose the one who wrote that article was to be pitied rather than scorned.

spurly · Tue Aug 20, 2002 - 06:01:54

Why did I stay at an instrumental church of Christ which was legalistic? I stayed because there was ministry to be done. I stayed because I loved the students we were ministering to. I stayed to spread grace the best I could with the help of the Holy Spirit. I stayed because I did not sense God calling me to leave. Did I get frustrated at times? You bet. Did I get angry at times? No doubt. But I stayed because I felt it was where God wanted me at the time.

I have since moved half a nation away to a congregation that knows about Grace and practices grace. I am serving under a group of elders who understand true freedom in Christ. It is freeing for me, for sure.

Should I have made the move earlier? No. God wasn't ready for it yet. But I am glad I am here now.

susieface · Wed Aug 21, 2002 - 06:02:51

Me too, Keber!! Ditto!! Sorry, if you feel that way, I don't!!

Your post are great, just a little over my head at times. Dingy blond here!!!!! LOL! I won't comment if I do not have anything to add or anything intelligent.
Most of the time by the time I log on (very late), everything I feel has already been said or I am too tired to think.

I appreciate all you post, including on beliefnet, which I haven't checked out in awhile.
Susie

Jeff · Fri Jul 19, 2002 - 04:53:30

Hi, Barry:

My affiliation with a local congregation has much more to do with the local leadership and the spiritual atmosphere of that body of believers than whether or not instrumental music is used. We have in the past worked with Community churches where the praise team had a small "combo" group of instrumentalists as part of its makeup.

We have some very, very good friends who work with a instrumental church just down the road from us. We enjoy fellowship with this body when they hold Easter cantatas and other times of "special" music, but the preaching and overall direction of this congregation are such that we could not see ourselves as members. What's truly special is that our friends understand this (just as we understand they wouldn't want to be at our congregation) yet we continue to maintain the kind of deep friendship that is only available in the body of Christ.

Skip · Fri Jul 19, 2002 - 15:49:07

Barry,

Your question is an easy one for me to answer - probably because I have given the topic a good deal of thought over the past 20 years or so.

Bluntly put, I have found the church of Christ "sectarian denomination" (your description - I'd agree with "sectarian", but the church of Christ I'm familiar with doesn't meet the dictionary definition of "denomination" - another topic for another time and place...) to be the closest to the Church of Christ described in the NT. This viewpoint was formed out of a childhood background of Catholicism and a period of investigation that began before my 'conversion' to the church of Christ and which has continued to the present day. May my mind never become closed, I pray, for a closed mind will never grow - "Today if your hear His voice, do not harden your hearts..."

Anyway, since churches of Christ are autonomous, there tends to be a wide variation in legalism and in views concerning the instrument. For example, in my particular case, I was 'converted' in the Midwestern U.S., and that particular church of Christ did use instruments. I have since moved to north Alabama, and currently attend a non-instrumental church of Christ. The instrument I can take or leave - I'll let that decision be made by the elders and not make any waves over their decision, because to me it would not be acceptable to disrupt the unity of our body over my own preferences. I love to sing, period, and that's enough.

If the elders insisted upon knowing my opinion, I would attempt to kindly state my views from the Bible. Otherwise, they have enough to deal with already, so my views are kept to myself - I would not upset the faith of any (Romans 14ff), but proceed down the narrow path with gentle footfalls extending support, not contention, to my brothers and sisters.

Ironically, the instrumental coC was far more legalistic than the non-instrumental one is - go figure.

serving_him_only · Fri Jul 19, 2002 - 21:11:21

I can find no example nor command in God's Word for "faithful" brethren to leave an "unfaithful" group and start their own down the street, nor leave and join up with some other group, (which probably has it's own unique set of problems!). In spite of all the problems in Corinth, not once did Paul even hint that one should leave and go somewhere else. Love was to prevail. Check out Rev. 2:18-29 & Rev. 3:1-6. Salvation is not obtained via what others in the church do, but what YOU do! Isn't it interesting that just about all the things Christians argue about aren't even addressed in the Word? (Which IMO makes them all un-scriptural (not in the scriptures)). God looks on the inside, and we can only see the outside. May God have mercy on all of us. Have a blessed day in Him.

Arkstfan · Sun Jul 21, 2002 - 03:03:40

[!--QuoteBegin--][/span][table border=\"0\" align=\"center\" width=\"95%\" cellpadding=\"3\" cellspacing=\"1\"][tr][td]Quote (MRBILL @ July 20 2002,3:49)[/td][/tr][tr][td id=\"QUOTE\"][!--QuoteEBegin--]I believe you are right on track in your view of instrumental music. Why couldn't we have a minister like you in our area. oh well, maybe in the next century.[/quote]
I'm no minister but change can happen.

The key is that people who are grace-centered and have a vision for a congregation have to pray for change and to find like minded Christians. When they find each other the doors can open.

Fate · Sun Jul 21, 2002 - 04:38:37

Marc,

You said, "If using instrumental music in worship is ordained by God, which I think the Bible very clearly teaches, why even give a moment's thought to what some legalists are going to think about it? Who really cares?"

Where exactly does the Bible teach that instrumental music in worship is "ordained" by God? I'm just an old backwater head-in-the-sand behind-the-times separated-from-the-true-body of believers COC legalist that would like to know. :(

janine · Mon Jul 22, 2002 - 15:50:30

Heard in an elder-taught Bible class a while back that the teacher was sure none of us there had problems with the obvious sins like drunkenness and pornography (how would he know?); what we needed to watch out for were insidious sins that were still horrible and sinful and awful, like visiting with relatives on an individual Sunday morning & missing the corporate worship... even though the Christians here gather again on Sunday evening, which you could then do after seeing the family in the morning...

Same leaders taught my husband as a boy that it was wrong for a group of young people to do a weekend retreat or camp-out & "have church" on the beach the Sunday morning... Was it the presence of the elders, then, that made the gathering a worship assembly?

(Oooh, Booty, something about sand, surf and the Saviour just don't mix, I guess!)

Perhaps there's some hope for my group, because there's not a "calling-on-the-carpet" like Booty's seen, if any of us visit some other group's worship. We couldn't go to the weddings and funerals of our Catholic families & friends, else!

There are several things preached against from the pulpit here that are not pressed and acted upon in the "church discipline" realm, because (a) too many of us know too much Bible to put up with it, and (b) most of the congregation would have to leave.

janine · Tue Jul 23, 2002 - 00:29:24

It's amazing how often a "we are right they are wrong don't confuse me with the facts" moment comes up in an open lecture/discussion situation, regardless of what the purported topic of the Bible class is.

Then sometimes I do find myself in an actual "we vs they" class.

How do I handle it? Sometimes I bite my tongue. (Who says a virtuous Christian wife & mother can't have a pierced tongue? Surely I'll bite mine through any day now! :p ) Sometimes I wait & let someone else who is more accepted than I, or less of a firebrand than I, answer the questions.

Sometimes I answer a question or disagree with a statement by asking an artful question of my own, one that requires the teacher or mistaken classmate to further explain his position.

Usually they see the faulty logic & unscriptural nature of what they just said, if they have to explain it further to me, or give a hypothetical example of their concept in practice.

Even if they don't see it my way, getting them to expound upon it lays it all out so that others in the class see why I disagree. They aren't lulled into agreement with the teacher just because he's the teacher.

Many times my husband will take on the disagreement rather than "letting" me bring it up. He wants negative reactions directed at himself rather than at his wife.

I pity our poor elders, sometimes, having to ride a "bucking bronco" bunch including the likes of me!

Just when I think I've figured out why I stay, I lose that thought & need to figure it out again... why do I stay (sigh). :(

nerdneh · Sat Jul 27, 2002 - 04:58:02

kebecer, thoughtful post. Surely it is a mistake to tie our spirituality to a particular national identity. Yesterday, in Nashville, a brother told of having a Bible class shut down in a Russian town because "American sects" are not welcome anymore. The idea floated around that the LDS people who had come to Russia to evangelize in the name of their cause, had somehow infuriated the Russians with their "American" brand of religion. Could this be true? If so, then we can see how national identity destroys witness in other cultures.

By the way, you are no doubt familiar with the story of Winston Churchill, during the time he was Prime Minister, receiving a directive from some functionary to the purpose that from now on, no offical language could end a sentence with a preposition. Churchill replied to the offending official in these lines; "This is the kind of nonsense up with which I will not put."

nerdneh · Mon Jul 29, 2002 - 20:49:16

Random thoughts on Monday morning.

I guess we apply labels because then we can accept or dismiss folks, since we know what they "are".

Booty, I believe the Russians have passed a law at the request of the Russian Orthodox church that is designed to keep "sectarian" influences minimal in Russia. Have no idea why, this particular brother mentioned the agressiveness of certain groups, including LDS, as the cause. Have no idea if he is right or not.

Janine, good points on designing a space so that singing sounds good. Seems like some thought should be given. I had forgotten the acoustic problem at Westchurch, but have not been there in about 15 years.

julie danley · Mon Aug 12, 2002 - 16:44:14

marc, Thought I would share with you a cartoon that my friend sent me in the mail. A little boy is standing at the chalkboard writing a phrase over and over again...I will not raise real issues ringing with uncomfortable truths. I will not raise real issues ringing with uncomfortable truths. I will not raise real issues ringing with uncomfortabel truths.

Keep asking!!! We all need to grow and we can't grow if we don't ask.

grace, Julie

MRBILL · Fri Aug 16, 2002 - 21:15:47

Awful good post today from Bob, Morris,lacy et el. At present I am in a searching mode for a church that fits. The happiest I have ever been in a church was in a baptist church in Winter Garden, Florida. I believe that there are churches that meet the needs of people in different ways. I for one don't care what the name over the door is -if I agree with them in the essentials of the faith then I can fellowship with them.

That being said, I felt the Lords leading(long story) about nine months ago to leave a baptist church and attend a particular Church of Christ that I felt, after several discussions with the minister, was heading in the right direction. My wife who was raised in the church of Christ was strongly opposed to this move and we had some very strong disagreements about it. You know of course that when Momma aint happy nobody's happy and so I offered to go back to the Baptist church. Now she says if the Lord is Leading you here then lets stay, but I will never join the Church of Christ. This particular church is led by a very loving and Godly minister, however they still tend to be a little legalistic. I am not sure what my purpose is for being here unless it is to encourage those who are grace centered to press on. One of my gifts of the spirit seem to be that of encouragement. I have always felt that if you seek Gods leading that he will give you guidance even in the smallest details of your life. So, I will stay here until I am convicted otherwise.

Your prayers for my wife and I in this matter would be appreciated.

Thanks for listening and may God Bless.

mrbill

PS I can appreciate what marc is going through and he will be in my prayers also.

Bill · Mon Aug 12, 2002 - 22:13:30

marc

You and your congregation are in my prayers. I'll not offer any advice as you've already received quite a bit of it. In any case, believe that prayer will be the most beneficial. May Christ come alive in your congregation. If you leave, who will be left to exhibit Christ Jesus?

Bill

Bill · Fri Aug 16, 2002 - 04:58:14

Well said, Emily. As seekr would say, 'it is all about love'.

Christian Forums

News:

User

Stats ezBlock

Why Do You Stay?

marc

nerdneh

janine

Lacy

Lacy

mclifft

Booty

david johnson

Jeff

Bill

pdwblw

Booty

Booty

Lacy

Booty

seekr

Morris

Nicholas

janine

spurly

susieface

Jeff

Skip

serving_him_only

Arkstfan

Fate

janine

janine

nerdneh

nerdneh

julie danley

MRBILL

Bill

Bill

Recent Topics

Login:
Password:
Login for: