Christian Forums

DOCUMENTATION:
(Based on Daniel 7:25.....'think to change times and laws')

"Protestants accept Sunday rather than Saturday as the day for public worship 'after' the Catholic Church made the change .....BUT, the Protestant mind does not seem to realize that....in observing the Sunday, they are accepting the authority of the spokesman for the church, the Pope",
('Our Sunday Visitor', February 5, 1950).

   Romans 6:16   "Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness ?"


"Sunday is a Catholic insitution,and its claims to observance can be defended only on Catholic principles....Fromthe beginning of scripture to the end (Genesis-Revelation) there is not one single passage that warrants the transfer of public worship from the 7th day of the week, to the 1st day of the week",
('Catholic Press', Sydney, Autralia, August, 1900).


"IF Protestants would follow the Bible, they shouldworship God on the Sabbath day. In keeping the Sunday they are following a Law of the Catholic Church"
(Albert Smith, Chancellor of the Archdiocese of Baltimore, replying for the Cardinal, in a letter dated February 10, 1920).


"The Church changed the observance of the Sabbath to Sunday by right of the divine, unfallable authority given her by her founder, Jesus Christ.
The Protestant claiming the Bible to be their only guide to faith, has no warrant for observing Sunday.
In this matter, the Seventh-Day Adventist is the only consistent Protestant", ("The Catholic Universe Bulletin', August 14, 1942).


"It was the Catholic church which by the authority of Jesus Christ, has transferred this rest (from the Bible Sabbath) to Sunday....Thus the observance of Sunday by the Protesant is in homage they pay, in spite of themselves, to the authority of the Catholic Church",
(Monsignor
Louis Segur, 'Plain Talk about the Protestant of Today', Page 213).

Just as the world would not have the canon of scripture without the Catholic Church, so too would they not have the Lord's own day as the day of worship.

peace, papist

Quote from: papist1 on Sun Nov 23, 2008 - 09:07:50
Just as the world would not have the canon of scripture without the Catholic Church, so too would they not have the Lord's own day as the day of worship.

What good is having the 'canon of Scripture',  if they don't do what it says ?

Quote from: 3AM on Sun Nov 23, 2008 - 12:11:24

Quote from: papist1 on Sun Nov 23, 2008 - 09:07:50
Just as the world would not have the canon of scripture without the Catholic Church, so too would they not have the Lord's own day as the day of worship.

What good is having the 'canon of Scripture',  if they don't do what it says ?

such as what, specifically?

Eat His flesh and drink His blood for eternal life? we do that.

peace,papist

Quote from: papist1 on Thu Nov 27, 2008 - 22:22:08

Quote from: 3AM on Sun Nov 23, 2008 - 12:11:24

Quote from: papist1 on Sun Nov 23, 2008 - 09:07:50
Just as the world would not have the canon of scripture without the Catholic Church, so too would they not have the Lord's own day as the day of worship.

What good is having the 'canon of Scripture',  if they don't do what it says ?

such as what, specifically?

Eat His flesh and drink His blood for eternal life? we do that.

peace,papist

I was refering to the Laws of God, that the RCC attempted to change from what the Bible really says to do.

Exodus   20:3   Thou shalt have no other gods before me. 

  20:4   Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness [of any thing] that [is] in heaven above, or that [is] in the earth beneath, or that [is] in the water under the earth: 
  20:5   Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God [am] a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth [generation] of them that hate me; 
  20:6   And showing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments. 

  20:7   Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain. 

  20:8   Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. 
  20:9   Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: 
  20:10   But the seventh day [is] the sabbath of the LORD thy God: [in it] thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that [is] within thy gates: 
  20:11   For [in] six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them [is], and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.   

20:12   Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee. 

  20:13   Thou shalt not kill. 

  20:14   Thou shalt not commit adultery. 

  20:15   Thou shalt not steal. 

  20:16   Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour. 

  20:17   Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that [is] thy neighbour's. 

i guess you should know, the idea of worship on sunday started long before the R.C.C. ( and please use the 'R' when talking about that church), mainly because people saw Christ raised from the dead on a sunday, and other such events that they were convinced God made a change to separate christianity from judaism.

what they did not realize is that God was being consistant with His word and did not do any work on the sabbath.  thus the ressurrection could not have happened sooner than sunday. there was no change in days and chistians should be aware of this.

Now that does NOT legitimize the 7th day adventist church, just that they got one right.

Quote from: papist1 on Sun Nov 23, 2008 - 09:07:50
peace, papist

I have been told by moderators not to use the term "papist" because its slanderous...

I always enjoy seeing things come full circle.

Quote from: 3AM on Fri Nov 28, 2008 - 11:03:34

Quote from: papist1 on Thu Nov 27, 2008 - 22:22:08

Quote from: 3AM on Sun Nov 23, 2008 - 12:11:24

Quote from: papist1 on Sun Nov 23, 2008 - 09:07:50
Just as the world would not have the canon of scripture without the Catholic Church, so too would they not have the Lord's own day as the day of worship.

What good is having the 'canon of Scripture',  if they don't do what it says ?

such as what, specifically?

Eat His flesh and drink His blood for eternal life? we do that.

peace,papist

I was refering to the Laws of God, that the RCC attempted to change from what the Bible really says to do.

Exodus   20:3   Thou shalt have no other gods before me. 

  20:4   Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness [of any thing] that [is] in heaven above, or that [is] in the earth beneath, or that [is] in the water under the earth: 
  20:5   Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God [am] a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth [generation] of them that hate me; 
  20:6   And showing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments. 

  20:7   Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain. 

  20:8   Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. 
  20:9   Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: 
  20:10   But the seventh day [is] the sabbath of the LORD thy God: [in it] thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that [is] within thy gates: 
  20:11   For [in] six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them [is], and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.   

20:12   Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee. 

  20:13   Thou shalt not kill. 

  20:14   Thou shalt not commit adultery. 

  20:15   Thou shalt not steal. 

  20:16   Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour. 

  20:17   Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that [is] thy neighbour's. 

and which of these did the church go against?

Quote from: archaeologist2 on Sun Nov 30, 2008 - 17:02:39
i guess you should know, the idea of worship on sunday started long before the R.C.C. ( and please use the 'R' when talking about that church), mainly because people saw Christ raised from the dead on a sunday, and other such events that they were convinced God made a change to separate christianity from judaism.

what they did not realize is that God was being consistant with His word and did not do any work on the sabbath.  thus the ressurrection could not have happened sooner than sunday. there was no change in days and chistians should be aware of this.

Now that does NOT legitimize the 7th day adventist church, just that they got one right.

prove your point please.

I do not know of any other church that existed previosu to the one that Christ built upon cephas. do you?

thanks, papist

Quote from: Charles Sloan on Sun Nov 30, 2008 - 17:44:35

Quote from: papist1 on Sun Nov 23, 2008 - 09:07:50
peace, papist

I have been told by moderators not to use the term "papist" because its slanderous...

I always enjoy seeing things come full circle.

I use it to show that yes, I am faith ful to christ and His Church and the earthly shepherd of that church who is the successor of st peter.

Quote from: papist1 on Sun Nov 30, 2008 - 20:51:13

Quote from: Charles Sloan on Sun Nov 30, 2008 - 17:44:35

Quote from: papist1 on Sun Nov 23, 2008 - 09:07:50
peace, papist

I have been told by moderators not to use the term "papist" because its slanderous...

I always enjoy seeing things come full circle.

I use it to show that yes, I am faith ful to christ and His Church and the earthly shepherd of that church who is the successor of st peter.

And I'm sure you would go to the same chapter to prove Jesus made Peter the shepherd of the church where Peter is later addressed directly as Satan. So you would literally misapply verse 18 to Peter personally, but then completely ignore verse 23 which is equally addressed to him.

I find Catholic consistency so fascinating.

Quote from: archaeologist2 on Sun Nov 30, 2008 - 17:02:39
Now that does NOT legitimize the 7th day adventist church, just that they got one right.

No worry....the Bible has already 'legitmitized' the SDA church.

Quotei guess you should know, the idea of worship on sunday started long before the R.C.C. ( and please use the 'R' when talking about that church), mainly because people saw Christ raised from the dead on a sunday, and other such events that they were convinced God made a change to separate christianity from judaism.

I beleive that he was referring to the fact that many of the pagans referred to Sunday as the Lord's day, considering the fact that they worshipped the sun as God.

Quote from: Amo on Sat Dec 06, 2008 - 15:18:23

Quotei guess you should know, the idea of worship on sunday started long before the R.C.C. ( and please use the 'R' when talking about that church), mainly because people saw Christ raised from the dead on a sunday, and other such events that they were convinced God made a change to separate christianity from judaism.

I believe that he was referring to the fact that many of the pagans referred to Sunday as the Lord's day, considering the fact that they worshipped the sun as God.

I hope Bible-believing people don't think the same way as pagans do.

A Bible believing person knows that the Lord's Day, is the 7th Day Sabbath, as Scripture says it is.

Quote from: Amo on Sat Dec 06, 2008 - 15:18:23I believe that he was referring to the fact that many of the pagans referred to Sunday as the Lord's day, considering the fact that they worshipped the sun as God.

This is manifest nonsense.  Paganism never referred to Sunday as Kyriake.

I thought the Lord's day was the 10th day?   

I believe that he was referring to the fact that many of the pagans referred to Sunday as the Lord's day, considering the fact that they worshipped the sun as God.

QuoteThis is manifest nonsense.  Paganism never referred to Sunday as Kyriake.

The text of Constantine's Sunday Law of 321 A.D. is :
"One the venerable day of the Sun let the magistrates and people residing in cities rest, and let all workshops be closed. In the country however persons engaged in agriculture may freely and lawfully continue their pursuits because it often happens that another day is not suitable for gain-sowing or vine planting; lest by neglecting the proper moment for such operations the bounty of heaven should be lost. (Given the 7th day of March, Crispus and Constantine being consuls each of them the second time." Codex Justinianus, lib. 3, tit. 12, 3; translated in History of the Christian Church, Philip Schaff, D.D., (7-vol.ed.) Vol. III, p.380. New York, 1884

Dr. A.Chr. Bang says regarding this Law :
"This Sunday law constituted no real favoratism to Christianity..... It is evident from all his statuatory provisions that the Emperor during the time 313-323 with full consciousness has sought the realisation of his religeous aim: the amalgamation of heathenism and Christianity." Kirken og Romerstaten (The Church and the Roman State) p.256. Christiania, 1879

In A.D. 321, to please the bishops of the Catholic Church, he issued an
edict commanding judges, townspeople, and mechanics to rest on Sunday.
Yet in this also his paganism was still manifest, as the edict required rest on
"the venerable day of the sun," and "enjoined the observance, or rather
forbade the public desecration, of Sunday, not under the name of
Sabbatum, or Dies Domini, but under its old astrological and heathen title,
Dies Solis , familiar to all his subjects, so that the law was as applicable to
the worshipers of Hercules, Apollo, and Mithras, as to the Christians."  (History of the Christian Church, Vol. 3, sec. 75, par. 5.-Schaff.)   ( The Great Empires of Prophecy by Alonzo Jones page 391 )


"A law of the year 321 ordered tribunals, shops, and workshops to
be closed on the day of the sun, and he [Constantine] sent to the
legions, to be recited upon that day, a form of prayer which could
have been employed by a worshiper of Mithra, of Serapis, or of
Apollo, quite as well as by a Christian believer. This was the official
sanction of the old custom of addressing a prayer to the rising sun.
IN DETERMINING WHAT DAYS SHOULD BE REGARDED AS HOLY,
and in the composition of a prayer for national use, CONSTANTINE
EXERCISED ONE OF THE RIGHTS BELONGING TO HIM AS PONTIFEX
MAXIMUS; and it caused no surprise that he should do this.

Amo:

All of your citations support my contention that pagans did not refer to Sunday as Kyriake (the Lord's Day).

In fact your third citation quite supports my point.

I humbly suggest that you more carefully read the things you cite to support your own arguments, since you clearly didn't read them carefully as the do not support your argument.

QuoteAmo:

All of your citations support my contention that pagans did not refer to Sunday as Kyriake (the Lord's Day).

In fact your third citation quite supports my point.

I humbly suggest that you more carefully read the things you cite to support your own arguments, since you clearly didn't read them carefully as the do not support your argument.

Forgive the misunderstanding.  My argument never was that anyone called Sunday Kyriake, but simply that Sunday was considered the Lord's day before Christians existed, by pagan sun worshippers.  Obviously, if you consider the sun to be God, then the day of the sun, would hold some prominence above the other days of the week.  It's not rocket science.

I would be glad though to here more about this word Kyriake.  It's language origin, definition, and your proof that everyone using the term Lord's day used it when doing so.  If that is what you are saying.  Just what exactly are you saying?  I am not very clear on that detail.

Celebrating birthdays makes God sick to his stomach.   

I'm not catholic, nor do I have proof of this.  But, we don't have any "happy birthday's" being celebrated in the bible.  Nor is much of what we do.  Thus, just about everything we do is heathenistic and should be discontinued immedi

The quotes in the first post of this thread are typical SDA propaganda. They routinely take such quotations out of context in order to support their Sabbatarian views. They love to quote from Catholic church fathers and popes, Protestant reformers like Luther, as well as later Protestant leaders like Wesley and Campbell, to build a case for Sabbath observance however the quotes they use that I've been able to research are all taken out of context.

Pax.

QuoteThe quotes in the first post of this thread are typical SDA propaganda. They routinely take such quotations out of context in order to support their Sabbatarian views. They love to quote from Catholic church fathers and popes, Protestant reformers like Luther, as well as later Protestant leaders like Wesley and Campbell, to build a case for Sabbath observance however the quotes they use that I've been able to research are all taken out of context.

Pax.

I guess were just supposed to take your word for that.  No sense in actually backing any of it up.  Where does Luther, Wesley, and Campbell back up the seventh day Sabbath?  I never heard of such.  I know Luther believed that the dead are in a state of sleep until the resurrection, but I never heard he backed up the seventh day Sabbath.

Quote from: 3AM on Fri Nov 28, 2008 - 11:03:34

Quote from: papist1 on Thu Nov 27, 2008 - 22:22:08

Quote from: 3AM on Sun Nov 23, 2008 - 12:11:24

Quote from: papist1 on Sun Nov 23, 2008 - 09:07:50
Just as the world would not have the canon of scripture without the Catholic Church, so too would they not have the Lord's own day as the day of worship.

What good is having the 'canon of Scripture',  if they don't do what it says ?

such as what, specifically?

Eat His flesh and drink His blood for eternal life? we do that.

peace,papist

I was refering to the Laws of God, that the RCC attempted to change from what the Bible really says to do.

Exodus   20:3   Thou shalt have no other gods before me. 

  20:4   Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness [of any thing] that [is] in heaven above, or that [is] in the earth beneath, or that [is] in the water under the earth: 
  20:5   Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God [am] a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth [generation] of them that hate me; 
  20:6   And showing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments. 

  20:7   Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain. 

  20:8   Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. 
  20:9   Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: 
  20:10   But the seventh day [is] the sabbath of the LORD thy God: [in it] thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that [is] within thy gates: 
  20:11   For [in] six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them [is], and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.   

20:12   Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee. 

  20:13   Thou shalt not kill. 

  20:14   Thou shalt not commit adultery. 

  20:15   Thou shalt not steal. 

  20:16   Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour. 

  20:17   Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that [is] thy neighbour's. 

In regards to the worship of graven images, it should be understood that Catholics are not participating in the worship of saints or imagery.  Firstly, one must understand that the use of imagery in the church is to inspire concentration during prayer as the mind is prone to wander.  Having a focus with which to attune one's thoughts helps one to keep their mind on God rather than on daily distractions.  As for praying to the saints, as this is sure to come up, the distinction is that we believe in a bodily resurrection of the dead and also that certain individuals are in communion with God already because of their lives on earth.  Praying for them to pray for us is akin to asking a living friend to pray for you, only our belief is that as they are already in heaven, their supplications to God on our behalf is more direct.

As the laws invovling work on the sabbath were also highlighted, it is important to remember the New Testament is also part of our scripture and Christ himself was Lord of the sabbath and did not condemn others from their work:

Luke Chapter 6:

1 On a Sabbath, while he was going through the grainfields, his disciples plucked and ate some heads of grain, rubbing them in their hands. 2But some of the Pharisees said, "Why are you doing what is not lawful to do on the Sabbath?" 3And Jesus answered them,  "Have you not read what David did when he was hungry, he and those who were with him: 4how he entered the house of God and took and ate the bread of the Presence, which is not lawful for any but the priests to eat, and also gave it to those with him?" 5And he said to them, "The Son of Man is lord of the Sabbath."

    6On another Sabbath, he entered the synagogue and was teaching, and a man was there whose right hand was withered. 7And the scribes and the Pharisees watched him, to see whether he would heal on the Sabbath, so that they might find a reason to accuse him. 8But he knew their thoughts, and he said to the man with the withered hand, "Come and stand here." And he rose and stood there. 9And Jesus said to them, "I ask you, is it lawful on the Sabbath to do good or to do harm, to save life or to destroy it?" 10And after looking around at them all he said to him, "Stretch out your hand." And he did so, and his hand was restored. 11But they were filled with fury and discussed with one another what they might do to Jesus.

QuoteIn regards to the worship of graven images, it should be understood that Catholics are not participating in the worship of saints or imagery. Firstly, one must understand that the use of imagery in the church is to inspire concentration during prayer as the mind is prone to wander. Having a focus with which to attune one's thoughts helps one to keep their mind on God rather than on daily distractions. As for praying to the saints, as this is sure to come up, the distinction is that we believe in a bodily resurrection of the dead and also that certain individuals are in communion with God already because of their lives on earth. Praying for them to pray for us is akin to asking a living friend to pray for you, only our belief is that as they are already in heaven, their supplications to God on our behalf is more direct.

Exod 20:4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: 5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;

The following is from the CATECHISM OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH.

"2677  Holy Mary, Mother of God:  With Elizabeth we marvel, "And why is this granted me, That the mother of my Lord should come to me?

Quote from: Amo on Sat Dec 13, 2008 - 09:06:04Exod 20:4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: 5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;

So, answer this: Why did the same God who issued this command, also commanded that graven images of creatures be set in the holiest of holies and that his presence would be on the mercy seat between two graven cherubim?

You quote from the Catechism, but you apparently don't even read it or understand it.  Note the things I've highlighted:

Quote from: Amo on Sat Dec 13, 2008 - 09:06:04The following is from the CATECHISM OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH.

"2677  Holy Mary, Mother of God:  With Elizabeth we marvel, "And why is this granted me, That the mother of my Lord should come to me?

Quote from: papist1 on Sun Nov 30, 2008 - 20:50:00

prove your point please.

I do not know of any other church that existed previosu to the one that Christ built upon cephas. do you?

thanks, papist

Acts   7:38   This is he, that was in the 'church in the wilderness' with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sinai, and [with] our fathers: who received the lively oracles to give unto us: 

QuoteSo, answer this: Why did the same God who issued this command, also commanded that graven images of creatures be set in the holiest of holies and that his presence would be on the mercy seat between two graven cherubim?

Nobody was to bow down to or pray to these images.  No one could even see them.  They were in the Holiest of Holies, which only the High Priest entered, and only once a year at that.  Even then, they tied bells to his ankle, and a rope to his foot, in case he was found in the presence of the Lord with unforgiven sin, and died.  The mercy seat represents the throne of God, which throne is a living throne, including four living creatures which are attached to it.  Read Ezekiel chapter one.

QuoteYou quote from the Catechism, but you apparently don't even read it or understand it. Note the things I've highlighted:

Note the things I have highlighted

"2677 Holy Mary, Mother of God: With Elizabeth we marvel, "And why is this granted me, That the mother of my Lord should come to me?

Great post, Amo.

Quote from: papist1 on Sun Nov 30, 2008 - 20:48:28

Quote from: 3AM on Fri Nov 28, 2008 - 11:03:34

Quote from: papist1 on Thu Nov 27, 2008 - 22:22:08

Quote from: 3AM on Sun Nov 23, 2008 - 12:11:24

Quote from: papist1 on Sun Nov 23, 2008 - 09:07:50
Just as the world would not have the canon of scripture without the Catholic Church, so too would they not have the Lord's own day as the day of worship.

What good is having the 'canon of Scripture',  if they don't do what it says ?

such as what, specifically?

Eat His flesh and drink His blood for eternal life? we do that.

peace,papist

I was refering to the Laws of God, that the RCC attempted to change from what the Bible really says to do.

Exodus   20:3   Thou shalt have no other gods before me. 

  20:4   Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness [of any thing] that [is] in heaven above, or that [is] in the earth beneath, or that [is] in the water under the earth: 
  20:5   Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God [am] a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth [generation] of them that hate me; 
  20:6   And showing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments. 

  20:7   Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain. 

  20:8   Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. 
  20:9   Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: 
  20:10   But the seventh day [is] the sabbath of the LORD thy God: [in it] thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that [is] within thy gates: 
  20:11   For [in] six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them [is], and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.   

20:12   Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee. 

  20:13   Thou shalt not kill. 

  20:14   Thou shalt not commit adultery. 

  20:15   Thou shalt not steal. 

  20:16   Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour. 

  20:17   Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that [is] thy neighbour's. 

and which of these did the church go against?

The 2nd and the 4th commandment.

Quote from: cosmoangel on Fri Dec 12, 2008 - 23:50:05

Quote from: 3AM on Fri Nov 28, 2008 - 11:03:34

Quote from: papist1 on Thu Nov 27, 2008 - 22:22:08

Quote from: 3AM on Sun Nov 23, 2008 - 12:11:24

Quote from: papist1 on Sun Nov 23, 2008 - 09:07:50
Just as the world would not have the canon of scripture without the Catholic Church, so too would they not have the Lord's own day as the day of worship.

What good is having the 'canon of Scripture',  if they don't do what it says ?

such as what, specifically?

Eat His flesh and drink His blood for eternal life? we do that.

peace,papist

I was refering to the Laws of God, that the RCC attempted to change from what the Bible really says to do.

Exodus   20:3   Thou shalt have no other gods before me. 

  20:4   Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness [of any thing] that [is] in heaven above, or that [is] in the earth beneath, or that [is] in the water under the earth: 
  20:5   Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God [am] a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth [generation] of them that hate me; 
  20:6   And showing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments. 

  20:7   Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain. 

  20:8   Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. 
  20:9   Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: 
  20:10   But the seventh day [is] the sabbath of the LORD thy God: [in it] thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that [is] within thy gates: 
  20:11   For [in] six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them [is], and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.   

20:12   Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee. 

  20:13   Thou shalt not kill. 

  20:14   Thou shalt not commit adultery. 

  20:15   Thou shalt not steal. 

  20:16   Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour. 

  20:17   Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that [is] thy neighbour's. 

In regards to the worship of graven images, it should be understood that Catholics are not participating in the worship of saints or imagery.  Firstly, one must understand that the use of imagery in the church is to inspire concentration during prayer as the mind is prone to wander.  Having a focus with which to attune one's thoughts helps one to keep their mind on God rather than on daily distractions.  As for praying to the saints, as this is sure to come up, the distinction is that we believe in a bodily resurrection of the dead and also that certain individuals are in communion with God already because of their lives on earth.  Praying for them to pray for us is akin to asking a living friend to pray for you, only our belief is that as they are already in heaven, their supplications to God on our behalf is more direct.

As the laws invovling work on the sabbath were also highlighted, it is important to remember the New Testament is also part of our scripture and Christ himself was Lord of the sabbath and did not condemn others from their work:

Luke Chapter 6:

1 On a Sabbath, while he was going through the grainfields, his disciples plucked and ate some heads of grain, rubbing them in their hands. 2But some of the Pharisees said, "Why are you doing what is not lawful to do on the Sabbath?" 3And Jesus answered them,  "Have you not read what David did when he was hungry, he and those who were with him: 4how he entered the house of God and took and ate the bread of the Presence, which is not lawful for any but the priests to eat, and also gave it to those with him?" 5And he said to them, "The Son of Man is lord of the Sabbath."

    6On another Sabbath, he entered the synagogue and was teaching, and a man was there whose right hand was withered. 7And the scribes and the Pharisees watched him, to see whether he would heal on the Sabbath, so that they might find a reason to accuse him. 8But he knew their thoughts, and he said to the man with the withered hand, "Come and stand here." And he rose and stood there. 9And Jesus said to them, "I ask you, is it lawful on the Sabbath to do good or to do harm, to save life or to destroy it?" 10And after looking around at them all he said to him, "Stretch out your hand." And he did so, and his hand was restored. 11But they were filled with fury and discussed with one another what they might do to Jesus.

I have seen many Catholics that put candles and kiss little statues of Saints.  If this is not idoletry then it is very close.  As far as the Lord's day.  This day is the 7TH day Sabbath.  Jesus is the Lord of the Sabbath because He created it.  The Son of God created everything that exists.  God bless.

QuoteRoman Catholics Said it....not me !

All kinds of people say all kinds of inaccurate things. Being Catholic does not immune onesself from making erroneous comments.

The problem with your post is that NONE of those quotes are from official Church documents. You have quoted newspaper afrticles and the like, but not any official Church teachings. I'm sure I could come up with all kinds of bad quotes and dumb comments from protestants, but I would not hold their denomination accountable for their private remarks.

Now, why don't you quote the Official Catechsim, and then we'll talk.

Pope Gregory I (AD 590-604) said :
"Gregory, bishop by the grace of God to his well-beloved sons, the Roman citizens: It has come to me that certain men of perverse spirit have disseminated among you things depraved and opposed to the holy faith, so that they forbid anything to be done on the day of the Sabbath. What shall I call them except preachers of anti-Christ?." Epistles of Gregory I, b.13, epist.1, found in Nicene and Post-Nicene Fathers.


The Synod of Laodicea - 343-381 A.D. - furnishes a decree which is quoted by many:
"Christians shall not Judaize and be idle on Saturday [Sabbatum is always used for the Sabbath and is translated Saturday in the English edition of Hefele], but shall work on that day; but the Lord's-day they shall especially honor, and as being Christians, shall, if possible, do no work on that day. If, however, they are found Judaizing they shall be shut out from Christ. (Canon 29, Hefele, Vol. 2, p. 316.)

The following is from the CATECHISM OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH.

Sunday- fulfillment of the sabbath
2175 Sunday is expressly distinguished from the sabbath which it follows chronologically every week; for Christians its ceremonial observance replaces that of the sabbath. In Christ's Passover, Sunday fulfills the spiritual truth of the Jewish sabbath and announces man's eternal rest in God. For worship under the Law prepared for the mystery of Christ, and what was done there prefigured some aspects of Christ:[107]
Those who lived according to the old order of things have come to a new hope, no longer keeping the sabbath, but the Lord's Day, in which our life is blessed by him and by his death.[108]

2176 The celebration of Sunday observes the moral commandment inscribed by nature in the human heart to render to God an outward, visible, public, and regular worship "as a sign of his universal beneficence to all."[109] Sunday worship fulfills the moral command of the Old Covenant, taking up its rhythm and spirit in the weekly celebration of the Creator and Redeemer of his people.

A day of grace and rest from work
2184 Just as God "rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had done,"[121] human life has a rhythm of work and rest. The institution of the Lord's Day helps everyone enjoy adequate rest and leisure to cultivate their familial, cultural, social, and religious lives.[122]

2185 On Sundays and other holy days of obligation, the faithful are to refrain from engaging in work or activities that hinder the worship owed to God, the joy proper to the Lord's Day, the performance of the works of mercy, and the appropriate relaxation of mind and body.[123] Family needs or important social service can legitimately excuse from the obligation of Sunday rest. The faithful should see to it that legitimate excuses do not lead to habits prejudicial to religion, family life, and health.
The charity of truth seeks holy leisure- the necessity of charity accepts just work.[124]

2186 Those Christians who have leisure should be mindful of their brethren who have the same needs and the same rights, yet cannot rest from work because of poverty and misery. Sunday is traditionally consecrated by Christian piety to good works and humble service of the sick, the infirm, and the elderly. Christians will also sanctify Sunday by devoting time and care to their families and relatives, often difficult to do on other days of the week. Sunday is a time for reflection, silence, cultivation of the mind, and meditation which furthers the growth of the Christian interior life.

2187 Sanctifying Sundays and holy days requires a common effort. Every Christian should avoid making unnecessary demands on others that would hinder them from observing the Lord's Day. Traditional activities (sport, restaurants, etc.), and social necessities (public services, etc.), require some people to work on Sundays, but everyone should still take care to set aside sufficient time for leisure. With temperance and charity the faithful will see to it that they avoid the excesses and violence sometimes associated with popular leisure activities. In spite of economic constraints, public authorities should ensure citizens a time intended for rest and divine worship. Employers have a similar obligation toward their employees.

2188 In respecting religious liberty and the common good of all, Christians should seek recognition of Sundays and the Church's holy days as legal holidays. They have to give everyone a public example of prayer, respect, and joy and defend their traditions as a precious contribution to the spiritual life of society. If a country's legislation or other reasons require work on Sunday, the day should nevertheless be lived as the day of our deliverance which lets us share in this "festal gathering," this "assembly of the firstborn who are enrolled in heaven."[125]

IN BRIEF
2189 "Observe the sabbath day, to keep it holy" (Deut 5:12). "The seventh day is a sabbath of solemn rest, holy to the Lord" (Ex 31:15).

2190 The sabbath, which represented the completion of the first creation, has been replaced by Sunday which recalls the new creation inaugurated by the Resurrection of Christ.

2191 The Church celebrates the day of Christ's Resurrection on the "eighth day," Sunday, which is rightly called the Lord's Day (cf. SC 106).

2192 "Sunday . . . is to be observed as the foremost holy day of obligation in the universal Church" (CIC, can. 1246 # 1). "On Sundays and other holy days of obligation the faithful are bound to participate in the Mass" (CIC, can. 1247).

2193 "On Sundays and other holy days of obligation the faithful are bound . . . to abstain from those labors and business concerns which impede the worship to be rendered to God, the joy which is proper to the Lord's Day, or the proper relaxation of mind and body" (CIC, can. 1247).

2194 The institution of Sunday helps all "to be allowed sufficient rest and leisure to cultivate their amilial, cultural, social, and religious lives" (GS 67 # 3).

2195 Every Christian should avoid making unnecessary demands on others that would hinder them from observing the Lord's Day.


The following quotes are from the APOSTOLIC LETTER DIES DOMINI by John Paul II

Chap. 1
8.............The People of God are called to enter into this same rest by persevering in Christ's example of filial obedience (cf. Heb 4:3-16). In order to grasp fully the meaning of Sunday, therefore, we must re-read the great story of creation and deepen our understanding of the theology of the "Sabbath".

13. The Sabbath precept, which in the first Covenant prepares for the Sunday of the new and eternal Covenant, is therefore rooted in the depths of God's plan. This is why, unlike many other precepts, it is set not within the context of strictly cultic stipulations but within the Decalogue, the "ten words" which represent the very pillars of the moral life inscribed on the human heart.

14. In the first place, therefore, Sunday is the day of rest because it is the day "blessed" by God and "made holy" by him, set apart from the other days to be, among all of them, "the Lord's Day".

18..............In the light of this mystery, the meaning of the Old Testament precept concerning the Lord's Day is recovered, perfected and fully revealed in the glory which shines on the face of the Risen Christ (cf. 2 Cor 4:6). We move from the "Sabbath" to the "first day after the Sabbath", from the seventh day to the first day: the dies Domini becomes the dies Christi!

Chap.2
23. It was this newness which the catechesis of the first centuries stressed as it sought to show the prominence of Sunday relative to the Jewish Sabbath. It was on the Sabbath that the Jewish people had to gather in the synagogue and to rest in the way prescribed by the Law. The Apostles, and in particular Saint Paul, continued initially to attend the synagogue so that there they might proclaim Jesus Christ, commenting upon "the words of the prophets which are read every Sabbath" (Acts 13:27). Some communities observed the Sabbath while also celebrating Sunday. Soon, however, the two days began to be distinguished ever more clearly, in reaction chiefly to the insistence of those Christians whose origins in Judaism made them inclined to maintain the obligation of the old Law.


Chap.4
59....................More than a "replacement" for the Sabbath, therefore, Sunday is its fulfilment, and in a certain sense its extension and full expression in the ordered unfolding of the history of salvation, which reaches its culmination in Christ.


62. It is the duty of Christians therefore to remember that, although the practices of the Jewish Sabbath are gone, surpassed as they are by the "fulfilment" which Sunday brings, the underlying reasons for keeping "the Lord's Day" holy — inscribed solemnly in the Ten Commandments — remain valid, though they need to be reinterpreted in the light of the theology and spirituality of Sunday: "Remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy, as the Lord your God commanded you. Six days you shall labour, and do all your work; but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the Lord your God. Then you shall do no work, you, or your son, or your daughter, or your servant, or your maid, or your ox, or your ass, or any of your beasts, or the foreigner within your gates, that your servant and maid may rest as well as you. You shall remember that you were a servant in the land of Egypt, and the Lord your God brought you out from there with a mighty hand and an outstretched arm. Therefore the Lord your God commanded that you keep the Sabbath day" (Dt 5:12-15). Here the Sabbath observance is closely linked with the liberation which God accomplished for his people.


63. Christ came to accomplish a new "exodus", to restore freedom to the oppressed. He performed many healings on the Sabbath (cf. Mt 12:9-14 and parallels), certainly not to violate the Lord's Day, but to reveal its full meaning: "The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath" (Mk 2:27). Opposing the excessively legalistic interpretation of some of his contemporaries, and developing the true meaning of the biblical Sabbath, Jesus, as "Lord of the Sabbath" (Mk 2:28), restores to the Sabbath observance its liberating character, carefully safeguarding the rights of God and the rights of man. This is why Christians, called as they are to proclaim the liberation won by the blood of Christ, felt that they had the authority to transfer the meaning of the Sabbath to the day of the Resurrection. The Passover of Christ has in fact liberated man from a slavery more radical than any weighing upon an oppressed people — the slavery of sin, which alienates man from God, and alienates man from himself and from others, constantly sowing within history the seeds of evil and violence.

The above  quotes are proof enough, that the Church of Rome has intended to replace the fourth commandment concerning the seventh day Sabbath, with her own third commandment.  That is, the establishment of the first day of the week as a holy, and sanctified day.  She has assumed a prerogative which belongs to God alone, in attempting to change one of His own commands.  Commands which He Himself literally spoke, and wrote to humanity, during a most awesome display of His divinity, including the creation of this world.

You have read, but you have not understood. The Catholic Church never "changed" the Sabbath. The Sabbath (Saturday) and the "Lord's Day" (Sunday) are two different things, and the Catechism makes that plain and clear.

A quote from the Catechism Of The Catholic Church:

CCC 2174 - Jesus rose from the dead "on the first day of the week." Because it is the "first day," the day of Christ's Resurrection recalls the first creation. Because it is the "eighth day" following the sabbath, it symbolizes the new creation ushered in by Christ's Resurrection. For Christians it has become the first of all days, the first of all feasts, the Lord's Day (he kuriake hemera, dies dominica)—Sunday:

CCC 2175 - Sunday is expressly distinguished from the sabbath which it follows chronologically every week; for Christians its ceremonial observance replaces that of the sabbath. In Christ's Passover, Sunday fulfills the spiritual truth of the Jewish sabbath and announces man's eternal rest in God. For worship under the Law prepared for the mystery of Christ, and what was done there prefigured some aspects of Christ:

Those who lived according to the old order of things have come to a new hope, no longer keeping the sabbath, but the Lord's Day, in which our life is blessed by him and by his death.

source
http://www.usccb.org/catechism/text/entiretoc1.htm

The Sabbatrh is for Jews under the fourth covenant given through Moses. Christians are not under that covenant. We are under the sixth covenant established by Christ, and Saturday Sabbath keeping is not part of Christ's covenant.

QuoteYou have read, but you have not understood. The Catholic Church never "changed" the Sabbath. The Sabbath (Saturday) and the "Lord's Day" (Sunday) are two different things, and the Catechism makes that plain and clear.

A quote from the Catechism Of The Catholic Church:

CCC 2174 - Jesus rose from the dead "on the first day of the week." Because it is the "first day," the day of Christ's Resurrection recalls the first creation. Because it is the "eighth day" following the sabbath, it symbolizes the new creation ushered in by Christ's Resurrection. For Christians it has become the first of all days, the first of all feasts, the Lord's Day (he kuriake hemera, dies dominica)—Sunday:

CCC 2175 - Sunday is expressly distinguished from the sabbath which it follows chronologically every week; for Christians its ceremonial observance replaces that of the sabbath. In Christ's Passover, Sunday fulfills the spiritual truth of the Jewish sabbath and announces man's eternal rest in God. For worship under the Law prepared for the mystery of Christ, and what was done there prefigured some aspects of Christ:

Those who lived according to the old order of things have come to a new hope, no longer keeping the sabbath, but the Lord's Day, in which our life is blessed by him and by his death.

source
http://www.usccb.org/catechism/text/entiretoc1.htm

The Sabbatrh is for Jews under the fourth covenant given through Moses. Christians are not under that covenant. We are under the sixth covenant established by Christ, and Saturday Sabbath keeping is not part of Christ's covenant.

You have read, but you have not understood.  Your Church has attempted to replace the seventh day with the first day.  To transfer what should be done on the seventh day, to the first day.  It is teaching people to disregard the fourth commandment, and replace it with a new day of it's own making.  Christ was a Jew, and all the Apostles were Jews, Christians were graffed into the vine, not separated.  Your Church is separated by disregarding God's commands, and establishing your own.
It is doing that which Christ Himself said He did not come to do, and told anyone who did it, they would be called least in the kingdom of heaven.

Matt 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. 18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. 19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

According to the words of Christ, your Church and all who accept her teachings will be called least in the kingdom of heaven.  You cannot change the law of God.  Christ Himself did not come to change the law of God, and admonished others to do and teach the law of God.  How say you He came to change it, and do and teach the same.  Are you above Christ, who both spoke and wrote the law to Israel, and admonished it's keeping and teaching when here as one of us?  No, you are not.  The ten commandments were not given to humanity through Moses, they were spoken and written by God Himself through His Son Jesus Christ, who is Himself God.

Quote from: Amo on Thu Jan 01, 2009 - 15:20:58
You have read, but you have not understood.  Your Church has attempted to replace the seventh day with the first day.......

Then perhaps you can explain why ALLTHREE branches of Christianity worship on Sunday: Protestant, Eastern Orthodox, and Catholic.