Christian Forums

Quote from: Jimmy on Mon Oct 04, 2010 - 11:45:16


Yes the early Church has grown and prospered, in spite of the Pope whatizname.  The early Church has not failed.  It has grown and prospered due to the Holy Spirit.  Not your pope.  The "early Church" is the Church of Jesus Christ, not the RCC.

I believe that the early Church was Catholic. 

Have you read letter of Pope Clement to the Corinthians in 95 AD?

How about the letters of St. Ignatius in 107 AD?

Are you aware that by the time the New Testament was written the Church was on its fifth pope?

Quote from: chestertonrules on Mon Oct 04, 2010 - 11:51:11

Quote from: Jimmy on Mon Oct 04, 2010 - 11:45:16


Yes the early Church has grown and prospered, in spite of the Pope whatizname.  The early Church has not failed.  It has grown and prospered due to the Holy Spirit.  Not your pope.  The "early Church" is the Church of Jesus Christ, not the RCC.

I believe that the early Church was Catholic.  

Have you read letter of Pope Clement to the Corinthians in 95 AD?

How about the letters of St. Ignatius in 107 AD?

Are you aware that by the time the New Testament was written the Church was on its fifth pope?

Sorry about that, but that pretty much sums up what I think of your fifth pope.

By the way, when do you think the NT was written?

Quote from: Jimmy on Mon Oct 04, 2010 - 11:56:46


Sorry about that, but that pretty much sums up what I think of your fifth pope.

By the way, when do you think the NT was written?

The last book of the New Testament, John's Revelation, was written in about 90-98 AD, it is suspected.

Of course the New Testament books weren't compiled until much later.

My guess is that you are unfamiliar with the early Church.  Is this the case?

Quote from: Jimmy on Mon Oct 04, 2010 - 11:45:16

Quote from: chestertonrules on Mon Oct 04, 2010 - 11:33:02

Quote from: Jimmy on Mon Oct 04, 2010 - 11:18:04

I don't think that He broke his promise.  But I also don't think that the RCC is "His Church".  I think the RCC is the church of the Pope and his minions, i.e, bishops, priests, whatever in the heirarchy.

Jesus is with us until the end of the age in the person of the Holy Spirit, not Pope whatizname.

The early Church didn't disappear, it has grown and prospered.   What makes you think the early Church failed?

Yes the early Church has grown and prospered, in spite of the Pope whatizname.  The early Church has not failed.  It has grown and prospered due to the Holy Spirit.  Not your pope.  The "early Church" is the Church of Jesus Christ, not the RCC.

No Jesus didn't fail but certain bishops did. Remember how we were talking about that mustard tree and how the birds came and nested in it.

After Constantine made the christains an excepted religion apostasy set in fast. bishops who wanted power and recognition stated their quest for power and prominence. However they were not fully successful until the fifth century when they used a forged documents called the Donations of Constantine

It was never of Christ for his church to become the religious political power of the Empire. 

God bless

Quote from: mclees8 on Mon Oct 04, 2010 - 12:29:14


No Jesus didn't fail but certain bishops did. Remember how we were talking about that mustard tree and how the birds came and nested in it.

After Constantine made the christains an excepted religion apostasy set in fast. bishops who wanted power and recognition stated their quest for power and prominence. However they were not fully successful until the fifth century when they used a forged documents called the Donations of Constantine

It was never of Christ for his church to become the religious political power of the Empire. 

God bless

Constantine just made Christianity legal, he didn't make it the official religion.  It is not even clear that Constantine ever became a Christian.

Jesus started a single Church and he gave this Church his authority to teach the gospel.

Which bishops are you referring to?  I'm sure that there have been some sinful bishops who were led astray, but they are a small minority and their personal failings didn't impact the Church.

Quote from: mclees8 on Mon Oct 04, 2010 - 12:29:14
After Constantine made the christains an excepted religion apostasy set in fast. bishops who wanted power and recognition stated their quest for power and prominence. However they were not fully successful until the fifth century when they used a forged documents called the Donations of Constantine

Mclees8, you are right that the donation of Constantine is a forgery.  It was a forgery created in the 8th-9th century.  It was mistakenly used in the 11th century, but that is another story.  The real question is: How exactly did a 8th-9th century forgery get used in the 5th century, enabling those bishops to "rise in power and recognition"?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donation_of_Constantine

Your confusion is what happens when you get your history from an anti-Catholic website.  They never let a little thing like God's commandment to not lie get in the way of spinning a good tale to degrade the Catholic Church.  I wonder who is driving these anti-Catholic websites to lie and hate?  Is it Jesus?  Or the devil?

Quote from: Catholica on Mon Oct 04, 2010 - 13:06:53

Quote from: mclees8 on Mon Oct 04, 2010 - 12:29:14
After Constantine made the christains an excepted religion apostasy set in fast. bishops who wanted power and recognition stated their quest for power and prominence. However they were not fully successful until the fifth century when they used a forged documents called the Donations of Constantine

Mclees8, you are right that the donation of Constantine is a forgery.  It was a forgery created in the 8th-9th century.  It was mistakenly used in the 11th century, but that is another story.  The real question is: How exactly did a 8th-9th century forgery get used in the 5th century, enabling those bishops to "rise in power and recognition"?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donation_of_Constantine

Your confusion is what happens when you get your history from an anti-Catholic website.  They never let a little thing like God's commandment to not lie get in the way of spinning a good tale to degrade the Catholic Church.  I wonder who is driving these anti-Catholic websites to lie and hate?  Is it Jesus?  Or the devil?

I will check again but i believe it was not declared to be a forgery until the 8 or 9th century. But it was written long before then

God bless

So, what did you guys decide? Is the Papacy right or wrong?

I've been waiting for your answer with bated breath.

btw, my favorite Pope was Alexander. Loved that line about a little learning being a dangerous thing.

Quote from: Jimmy on Mon Oct 04, 2010 - 11:56:46

Quote from: chestertonrules on Mon Oct 04, 2010 - 11:51:11

Quote from: Jimmy on Mon Oct 04, 2010 - 11:45:16


Yes the early Church has grown and prospered, in spite of the Pope whatizname.  The early Church has not failed.  It has grown and prospered due to the Holy Spirit.  Not your pope.  The "early Church" is the Church of Jesus Christ, not the RCC.

I believe that the early Church was Catholic. 

Have you read letter of Pope Clement to the Corinthians in 95 AD?

How about the letters of St. Ignatius in 107 AD?

Are you aware that by the time the New Testament was written the Church was on its fifth pope?

Sorry about that, but that pretty much sums up what I think of your fifth pope.

By the way, when do you think the NT was written?

You have to remember that The Church was on her third pope by the time Jesus was born.

Quote from: chestertonrules on Mon Oct 04, 2010 - 12:01:08

Quote from: Jimmy on Mon Oct 04, 2010 - 11:56:46


Sorry about that, but that pretty much sums up what I think of your fifth pope.

By the way, when do you think the NT was written?

The last book of the New Testament, John's Revelation, was written in about 90-98 AD, it is suspected.

Of course the New Testament books weren't compiled until much later.

My guess is that you are unfamiliar with the early Church.  Is this the case?

So are you postulating there were five popes before 90 A.D.?

When you say early church, which church specifically are you speaking of?  The one  built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, with Christ Jesus himself being the chief corner stone (Eph 2:20), or that organization which calls itself the Roman Catholic Church.  They are most certainly completely different entities, even though there may be some within the RCC who are also in the church of the NT.

Quote from: marc on Mon Oct 04, 2010 - 15:00:13

Quote from: Jimmy on Mon Oct 04, 2010 - 11:56:46

Quote from: chestertonrules on Mon Oct 04, 2010 - 11:51:11

Quote from: Jimmy on Mon Oct 04, 2010 - 11:45:16


Yes the early Church has grown and prospered, in spite of the Pope whatizname.  The early Church has not failed.  It has grown and prospered due to the Holy Spirit.  Not your pope.  The "early Church" is the Church of Jesus Christ, not the RCC.

I believe that the early Church was Catholic. 

Have you read letter of Pope Clement to the Corinthians in 95 AD?

How about the letters of St. Ignatius in 107 AD?

Are you aware that by the time the New Testament was written the Church was on its fifth pope?

Sorry about that, but that pretty much sums up what I think of your fifth pope.

By the way, when do you think the NT was written?

You have to remember that The Church was on her third pope by the time Jesus was born.

God bless chester. No one has suggested Gods church has failed nor has anyone suggested Gods word has failed. Nor has anyone suggested Gods love has failed. However the many scriptures given to you by many have shown the R C C is not what only the catholics claim is the only church headed by a pope that only catholics claim is Jesus! 

LOL Marc. The Papacy is so so so wrong I am amazed how many are fooled by it! I didnt even know much about Catholic theories until I heard them speaking and I cant believe they were fooled by it! I have many many catholic friends and to say the least... even demons believe there is a God and they shudder!

Quote from: Jimmy on Mon Oct 04, 2010 - 15:08:01

Quote from: chestertonrules on Mon Oct 04, 2010 - 12:01:08

Quote from: Jimmy on Mon Oct 04, 2010 - 11:56:46


Sorry about that, but that pretty much sums up what I think of your fifth pope.

By the way, when do you think the NT was written?

The last book of the New Testament, John's Revelation, was written in about 90-98 AD, it is suspected.

Of course the New Testament books weren't compiled until much later.

My guess is that you are unfamiliar with the early Church.  Is this the case?

So are you postulating there were five popes before 90 A.D.?

circa 33-67 AD  St. Peter
circa 67-79 AD  Pope St. Linus
circa 79-92 AD  Pope St. Anacletus
circa 92-99 AD  Pope St. Clement

Ok, so there were 3 popes, or 4 if you count St. Peter (though the term Pope in many understandings means the "successor to St. Peter")

Quote from: Jimmy on Mon Oct 04, 2010 - 15:08:01
When you say early church, which church specifically are you speaking of?  The one  built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, with Christ Jesus himself being the chief corner stone (Eph 2:20), or that organization which calls itself the Roman Catholic Church.  

They are one and the same.

Sorry Catholica. They are not one in the same! King David was promised a lineage of kings to sit on his throne... Jesus being the last King! No where will you find God promising Peter a lineage! What you will find is God promised Jesus a bride/children given to him BY GOD the FATHER! John 10

Quote from: Visionary on Mon Oct 04, 2010 - 16:54:16
Sorry Catholica. They are not one in the same! King David was promised a lineage of kings to sit on his throne... Jesus being the last King! No where will you find God promising Peter a lineage! What you will find is God promised Jesus a bride/children given to him BY GOD the FATHER! John 10

Whatever you say, Visionary.  You are your own pope, after all.

Quote from: mclees8 on Mon Oct 04, 2010 - 14:12:32

Quote from: Catholica on Mon Oct 04, 2010 - 13:06:53

Quote from: mclees8 on Mon Oct 04, 2010 - 12:29:14
After Constantine made the christains an excepted religion apostasy set in fast. bishops who wanted power and recognition stated their quest for power and prominence. However they were not fully successful until the fifth century when they used a forged documents called the Donations of Constantine

Mclees8, you are right that the donation of Constantine is a forgery.  It was a forgery created in the 8th-9th century.  It was mistakenly used in the 11th century, but that is another story.  The real question is: How exactly did a 8th-9th century forgery get used in the 5th century, enabling those bishops to "rise in power and recognition"?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donation_of_Constantine

Your confusion is what happens when you get your history from an anti-Catholic website.  They never let a little thing like God's commandment to not lie get in the way of spinning a good tale to degrade the Catholic Church.  I wonder who is driving these anti-Catholic websites to lie and hate?  Is it Jesus?  Or the devil?

I will check again but i believe it was not declared to be a forgery until the 8 or 9th century. But it was written long before then

God bless

I know you will call this an anti catholic web site which is easy to say. its easy to call people liars. But the fact remain the the Donations of Constantine were actual historical forged documents that served a purpose and it was only one of several. Its easy to put your fingers in your ears and cry liar and spewers of hate.

By john Schroeder
As a 4-year-old child in a family of devout Roman Catholics, I could recite by heart Matthew 16:18 and 19 long before I could read or write. On cue, when prompted by parent or sibling, I would emote as follows:

            "Thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church,

            and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. And I will

            give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and what-

            soever thou shalt bind upon earth shall be bound in heaven,

            and whatsoever thou shalt loose upon earth shall be loosed

            in heaven.

mclees8, thanks for the article, as I get a chance today I will try to respond to it.

Quote from: Jimmy on Mon Oct 04, 2010 - 15:08:01

Quoteare unfamiliar with the early Church.  Is this the case?

So are you postulating there were five popes before 90 A.D.?

When you say early church, which church specifically are you speaking of?  The one  built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, with Christ Jesus himself being the chief corner stone (Eph 2:20), or that organization which calls itself the Roman Catholic Church.  They are most certainly completely different entities, even though there may be some within the RCC who are also in the church of the NT.

[/quote]

By 97 AD, yes.  It is not postulating.

          St. Irenaeus listed the first 14 Popes in "Against Heresies", 3:3:3, (180 AD)

* St. Peter (32-67), Matthew 16:18.
* St. Linus (67-76), 2Timothy 4:21
* St. Anacletus (Cletus) (76-88)
* St. Clement I (88-97), Philippians 4:3
* St. Evaristus (97-105)

The early Church is the Catholic Church, as we see here in 110 AD:

"See that ye all follow the bishop, even as Christ Jesus does the Father, and the presbytery as ye would the apostles. Do ye also reverence the deacons, as those that carry out the appointment of God. Let no man do anything connected with the Church without the bishop. Let that be deemed a proper Eucharist, which is [administered] either by the bishop, or by one to whom he has entrusted it. Wherever the bishop shall appear, there let the multitude also be; by the bishop, or by one to whom he has entrusted it. Wherever the bishop shall appear, there let the multitude also be; even as, wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church." Ignatius of Antioch, Epistle to the Smyrneans, 8:2 (c. A.D. 110).

Chester. Nice try but that is a lie! I know Jesus said, "Where I am there my servant will be!" But you say, wherever your pope is there Gods servant will be! Are you trying to make Gods children slaves to men again slaves to idol worship?

Quote from: chestertonrules on Tue Oct 05, 2010 - 12:45:39

The early Church is the Catholic Church, as we see here in 110 AD:

"See that ye all follow the bishop, even as Christ Jesus does the Father, and the presbytery as ye would the apostles. Do ye also reverence the deacons, as those that carry out the appointment of God. Let no man do anything connected with the Church without the bishop. Let that be deemed a proper Eucharist, which is [administered] either by the bishop, or by one to whom he has entrusted it. Wherever the bishop shall appear, there let the multitude also be; by the bishop, or by one to whom he has entrusted it. Wherever the bishop shall appear, there let the multitude also be; even as, wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church." Ignatius of Antioch, Epistle to the Smyrneans, 8:2 (c. A.D. 110).

Exactly, this is proof that the Early Church is indeed the Catholic Church.  Her name was written in A.D 110.  We have a name written in a document dating to A.D 110.  This also shows that if her name was written, it mostly likely was also spoken.   

Quote from: Selene on Tue Oct 05, 2010 - 19:58:16

Quote from: chestertonrules on Tue Oct 05, 2010 - 12:45:39

The early Church is the Catholic Church, as we see here in 110 AD:

"See that ye all follow the bishop, even as Christ Jesus does the Father, and the presbytery as ye would the apostles. Do ye also reverence the deacons, as those that carry out the appointment of God. Let no man do anything connected with the Church without the bishop. Let that be deemed a proper Eucharist, which is [administered] either by the bishop, or by one to whom he has entrusted it. Wherever the bishop shall appear, there let the multitude also be; by the bishop, or by one to whom he has entrusted it. Wherever the bishop shall appear, there let the multitude also be; even as, wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church." Ignatius of Antioch, Epistle to the Smyrneans, 8:2 (c. A.D. 110).

Exactly, this is proof that the Early Church is indeed the Catholic Church.  Her name was written in A.D 110.  We have a name written in a document dating to A.D 110.  This also shows that if her name was written, it mostly likely was also spoken.   

And you think he was referring to the Roman Catholic Church?   

Selene, the word "catholic" there simply means the church universal.  The church of Jesus Christ.

cath·o·lic   

–adjective
1. broad or wide-ranging in tastes, interests, or the like; having sympathies with all; broad-minded; liberal.
2. universal in extent; involving all; of interest to all.
3. pertaining to the whole Christian body or church.

Dictionary.com Unabridged
Based on the Random House Dictionary, © Random House, Inc. 2010.



If someone has access to the original writing in the language in which it was written, I would be interested to see what word was translated as Catholic.  It is almost without doubt not a reference to the Roman Catholic Church as you wish to proclaim it.

Quote from: Jimmy on Tue Oct 05, 2010 - 20:20:20

And you think he was referring to the Roman Catholic Church?   

Selene, the word "catholic" there simply means the church universal.  The church of Jesus Christ.

Yes, I know.  That is our name.  Catholic.  The Church at Babylon that St. Peter spoke about in the Bible was the Roman Church.  That Church today is the Catholic Church. 

Quote from: Selene on Tue Oct 05, 2010 - 19:58:16

Quote from: chestertonrules on Tue Oct 05, 2010 - 12:45:39

The early Church is the Catholic Church, as we see here in 110 AD:

"See that ye all follow the bishop, even as Christ Jesus does the Father, and the presbytery as ye would the apostles. Do ye also reverence the deacons, as those that carry out the appointment of God. Let no man do anything connected with the Church without the bishop. Let that be deemed a proper Eucharist, which is [administered] either by the bishop, or by one to whom he has entrusted it. Wherever the bishop shall appear, there let the multitude also be; by the bishop, or by one to whom he has entrusted it. Wherever the bishop shall appear, there let the multitude also be; even as, wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church." Ignatius of Antioch, Epistle to the Smyrneans, 8:2 (c. A.D. 110).

Exactly, this is proof that the Early Church is indeed the Catholic Church.  Her name was written in A.D 110.  We have a name written in a document dating to A.D 110.  This also shows that if her name was written, it mostly likely was also spoken.   

Yes Selene we are all Catholic but not all Roman Catholic.  this is not proof of the supremacy of the Roman church. Ignatius was not Roman Catholic. he was Bishop of Antioch and not subject to Rome or Peter. You don't see either mentioned in this do you  Roman Catholic papacy that shanghaied Christianity   did not exist at his time. The church then was the church in whatever city the church was. The church was not governed then by Rome or any church in Rome. Let any who are sent be true to his calling and not self seeking. Let him be of a pure heart and not self exalting. We are not exalting the clergy and the clergy is not self exalting itself as the Roman catholic church did. If Ignatius did not walk in this he already took a wrong path himself.

God bless 

Quote from: mclees8 on Wed Oct 06, 2010 - 06:10:49
Yes Selene we are all Catholic but not all Roman Catholic.  this is not proof of the supremacy of the Roman church. Ignatius was not Roman Catholic. he was Bishop of Antioch and not subject to Rome or Peter. You don't see either mentioned in this do you  Roman Catholic papacy that shanghaied Christianity   did not exist at his time. The church then was the church in whatever city the church was. The church was not governed then by Rome or any church in Rome. Let any who are sent be true to his calling and not self seeking. Let him be of a pure heart and not self exalting. We are not exalting the clergy and the clergy is not self exalting itself as the Roman catholic church did. If Ignatius did not walk in this he already took a wrong path himself.

God bless  

There is only one Catholic Church.  

Quote from: Selene on Wed Sep 29, 2010 - 18:44:18

Quote from: The Great Baptizmo on Wed Sep 29, 2010 - 18:43:06

Quote from: Selene on Wed Sep 29, 2010 - 18:41:20

Quote from: The Great Baptizmo on Wed Sep 29, 2010 - 18:35:33
Still trying to make the doctrine of demons concerning forbidding marriage ok, I see.

Tell that to Jesus Christ.   

Luke 20:34-35   And Jesus said to them: The children of this world marry, and are given in marriage:  But they that shall be accounted worthy of that world, and of the resurrection from the dead, shall neither be married, nor take wives.

Jesus Christ, through the Holy Spirit inspired the words of 1 Tim 4.  So I don't kneed to tell it to Him, He says that forbidding of marriage is a doctrine of demons.

Yes, you do because Christ forbids marriage between men and women in Heaven. 

Wait I think I may have taken this out of context so before I respond could you elaborate further on what you meant by this Selene?

Quote from: Visionary on Tue Oct 05, 2010 - 14:40:56
Chester. Nice try but that is a lie! I know Jesus said, "Where I am there my servant will be!" But you say, wherever your pope is there Gods servant will be! Are you trying to make Gods children slaves to men again slaves to idol worship?

What is a lie?

Following those sent by Jesus is a good thing, right?

Quote from: Jimmy on Tue Oct 05, 2010 - 20:20:20


Selene, the word "catholic" there simply means the church universal.  The church of Jesus Christ.

cath·o·lic   

–adjective
1. broad or wide-ranging in tastes, interests, or the like; having sympathies with all; broad-minded; liberal.
2. universal in extent; involving all; of interest to all.
3. pertaining to the whole Christian body or church.

Dictionary.com Unabridged
Based on the Random House Dictionary, © Random House, Inc. 2010.



If someone has access to the original writing in the language in which it was written, I would be interested to see what word was translated as Catholic.  It is almost without doubt not a reference to the Roman Catholic Church as you wish to proclaim it.

The Catholic Church is universal, and it is ONE!

The designation of "Roman" Catholic was a protestant era invention that stuck because that was where the Church was based at the time.  The Catholic Church is the same Church that Jesus started, but it need not be based in Rome.

Quote from: Jimmy on Tue Oct 05, 2010 - 20:20:20

Quote from: Selene on Tue Oct 05, 2010 - 19:58:16

Quote from: chestertonrules on Tue Oct 05, 2010 - 12:45:39

The early Church is the Catholic Church, as we see here in 110 AD:

"See that ye all follow the bishop, even as Christ Jesus does the Father, and the presbytery as ye would the apostles. Do ye also reverence the deacons, as those that carry out the appointment of God. Let no man do anything connected with the Church without the bishop. Let that be deemed a proper Eucharist, which is [administered] either by the bishop, or by one to whom he has entrusted it. Wherever the bishop shall appear, there let the multitude also be; by the bishop, or by one to whom he has entrusted it. Wherever the bishop shall appear, there let the multitude also be; even as, wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church." Ignatius of Antioch, Epistle to the Smyrneans, 8:2 (c. A.D. 110).

Exactly, this is proof that the Early Church is indeed the Catholic Church.  Her name was written in A.D 110.  We have a name written in a document dating to A.D 110.  This also shows that if her name was written, it mostly likely was also spoken.   

And you think he was referring to the Roman Catholic Church?   

Selene, the word "catholic" there simply means the church universal.  The church of Jesus Christ.

cath·o·lic   

–adjective
1. broad or wide-ranging in tastes, interests, or the like; having sympathies with all; broad-minded; liberal.
2. universal in extent; involving all; of interest to all.
3. pertaining to the whole Christian body or church.

Dictionary.com Unabridged
Based on the Random House Dictionary, © Random House, Inc. 2010.



If someone has access to the original writing in the language in which it was written, I would be interested to see what word was translated as Catholic.  It is almost without doubt not a reference to the Roman Catholic Church as you wish to proclaim it.

Umm bro whats so funny? I mean I would like to know.

Of course it is the Roman Catholic Church?! What history book have you been reading? Tell me the history of Christianity after the death of Christ since the obvious truth is apparently wrong. Gosh more and more of us every freaking day.  

Christ chose the original Twelve. The Twelve chose their successors like Ignatius of Antioch one of the disciples of John. Those successors chose other successors. After the Council of Nicaea Christianity, which was by that time referred to more as the Catholic Church( no Roman attachment), became the official religion of Rome. It went on to be knwown as the Catholic Church(no Roman attachment) 1054 AD and the Great Schism. Then the title of "Roman Catholic Church" was unofficially given to the Church of the West to distnguish them between the Church of the East which is more popularly known as the Eastern Orthodox.

Read a book the history is there for itself. Man I tell you.   It's a sad thing when my fellow protestants try to argue doctrines they barely attempt to understand but when they wear this sarcastic superiorty persona when they don't even know basic Christian history All it does is make it hard for the rest of us protestants who aren't ignorant.

Once again... see that you all follow the bishop as jesus follows god is a lie! The church submits to christ-the One And Only True God And Faithful Witness!!!! Are christians slaves to men? He whom the Son sets free is free indeed! Again, I know Jesus said, Where I am there my servant will be. He did not say where my bishop is there I will be! How about you catholics who tell us all these lies from your popes sit down and actually read a bible? Moreover actually sit down and listen to what Jesus says and not some pope! Dont you know God gives the Holy Spirit to those who love him? Do you think he only gives the Holy Spirit to people in "influential positions" to make you their slaves to sin?

Quote from: Visionary on Wed Oct 06, 2010 - 11:10:25
Once again... see that you all follow the bishop as jesus follows god is a lie! The church submits to christ-the One And Only True God And Faithful Witness!!!! Are christians slaves to men? He whom the Son sets free is free indeed! Again, I know Jesus said, Where I am there my servant will be. He did not say where my bishop is there I will be! How about you catholics who tell us all these lies from your popes sit down and actually read a bible? Moreover actually sit down and listen to what Jesus says and not some pope! Dont you know God gives the Holy Spirit to those who love him? Do you think he only gives the Holy Spirit to people in "influential positions" to make you their slaves to sin?

I don't think I've introduced myself. I'm LightHammer a nondenominational christian nice to meet you.

I have to ask this question because your posts are becoming less and less credible and even more unprofessional. Have you ever studied our catholic brothers and sisters' church.  I mean really studied and tried to understand our brothers and sisters with a genuine heart. From credible sources have you studied the Catholic doctrines, history and traditions? If not then you are nothing more than an annoyance on this forum.

Look at yourself. Look at your past posts. We are all christians here. Each one of us trying so desperately to please God and gain the greatest understanding of the Truth we can and all you have been doing is trying to tear down the faith of another without even understanding that faith for yourself. Your understanding of Catholicism and those who submit themselves to the Successors is not even worth calling basic. There's is no love of God in the way you present your points of view. Only hatred and animosity. How about you actually try and understand them before you tear them down.

With All Due Respect
LighThammer

Quote from: Visionary on Wed Oct 06, 2010 - 11:10:25
Once again... see that you all follow the bishop as jesus follows god is a lie! The church submits to christ-the One And Only True God And Faithful Witness!!!! Are christians slaves to men? He whom the Son sets free is free indeed! Again, I know Jesus said, Where I am there my servant will be. He did not say where my bishop is there I will be! How about you catholics who tell us all these lies from your popes sit down and actually read a bible? Moreover actually sit down and listen to what Jesus says and not some pope! Dont you know God gives the Holy Spirit to those who love him? Do you think he only gives the Holy Spirit to people in "influential positions" to make you their slaves to sin?

St. Ignatius, the one you are calling a liar was instructed by St. John the beloved.  He was ordained Overseer of Antioch by both St. Peter and St. Paul by the laying on of hands.  He was in his eighties when he wrote this letter and he wrote this letter and had it sent while being transported by Roman guards to Rome so that he might be fed to the wild beasts in the Arena.  

He is a Holy martyr of the faith.  


I would ask you who you were instructed by and who appointed you as overseer of right belief but I have a feeling that you will say that the Holy Spirit has taught you.  You treasure your interpretation of the Holy Scriptures above the interpretation of the Holy Scriptures who were instructed by the very men who wrote the very Holy Scriptures you interpret.  But by what authority do you interpret?  By what authority do you call St. Ignatius, Overseer of Antioch where we were first called, "Christians", a "liar"?  

Perhaps St. John the beloved and St. Paul and St. Peter and St. Ignatius' eighty years in service to the Lord (subtract 80 from the year 100 and ponder that reality in the fear of God and with trembling) were not as informed as a man such as yourself.  Maybe.  But do tell us why we should trust you, that you, above them, speak the truth and show us, not by mere private interpretation, that these Saints should be called liars.  





ICXC NIKA

Funny thing lighthammer. Unless those who rebuke give a scripture number and reference the majority would never recognize God's word. So, did Jesus go around saying verse bla bla you are healed or bla bla your sins are forgiven or bla bla that is a lie? No! Where then did his credibility come from? MEN or GOD?

Quote from: Visionary on Wed Oct 06, 2010 - 11:59:00
Funny thing lighthammer. Unless those who rebuke give a scripture number and reference the majority would never recognize God's word. So, did Jesus go around saying verse bla bla you are healed or bla bla your sins are forgiven or bla bla that is a lie? No! Where then did his credibility come from? MEN or GOD?

You know it is consider extremely rude not to introduce yourself where I come from once someone introduces themself.

And in all honesty the point of your response is very unclear. Would mind maybe rephrasing it a bit? Im kindof lost.

Let no man do anything connected with the church without the bishop. Again another lie. Jesus destroyed the requirements of the Levitical Priesthood once for all with the sacrifice of himself. We worship not in Cathedrals nor anywhere else but in spirit and truth. We praise God in our daily walk in all places we go. We offer the sacrifice of lips that confess his name WITHOUT SEEKING ANY MANS APPROVAL!