no private interpritationKinda' like when they equate the Body of Christ, His Ch

[blituri]

Peter's No Private Interpretation

2 Pet 1:15 Moreover I will endeavour that ye may be able after my decease
        to have these things alway in remembrance.

2Pet. 1:16  For we have not followed cunningly [sophizo]  devised fables,

Fables are myths from MUO music [to shut the mouth: music forces the lambs to be silent
           before the slaughter]

Sophis-tês , ou, ho, master of one's craft, adept, expert, of diviners,   of poets, meletan sophistais prosbalon Pi.I.5(4).28 , cf. Cratin.2; of musicians, sophistês . . parapaiôn chelun A.Fr.314 , cf. Eup.447, Pl.Com. 140; sophistêi Thrêiki (sc. Thamyris) E.Rh.924, cf. Ath.14.632c: w

when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ,
         but were eyewitnesses of his majesty
2 Pet 1:17 For HE received from God the Father honour and glory,
        when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory,
        This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
2 Pet 1:18 And this voice which came from heaven
        WE heard, when
        WE were with him in the holy mount. 

2 Pet 1:19 WE have also a more sure word of prophecy;
        whereunto YE do well that ye take heed,
2Pet. 1:15 Moreover I will endeavour that ye may be able after my decease
        to have these things always in remembrance.
2Pet. 1:16 For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, [poets and song writers]
        when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ,
        but were eyewitnesses of his majesty.

2Pet. 1:17 For he received from God the Father honour and glory,
        when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory,
        This is my beloved Son [God's WORDS], in whom I am well pleased.

2Pet. 1:18 And this voice which came from heaven we heard, when we were with him in the holy mount.

2Pet. 1:19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy;
        whereunto ye do well that ye take heed,
        as unto a light that shineth in a dark place,
        until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:

All of the Bible including Christ lists the TOTAL TRUTH for the spiritual persons (not institutes) through the PROPHETS by His Spirit (1 Peter 1:11) and the APOSTLES. They were eye and ear witnesses of the risen Christ. That is why no one later than Paul who was born AFTER APOSTLE SEASON has a jot or tittle to add to the Word which was NOT compiled by the Catholic church. The pre Apostate church was called THE CHURCH OF CHRIST and you can find all of the essential doctrines in the writings of the fathers of The Church of Christ centuries before there was a pope.

2 Pet 1:20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.

That does not say that LAY PEOPLE have no right to interpret that which has been EXPOUNDED: This passage says that the Pope in Rome does not have the right to add a sentence to the word.

HERE'S WHAT THE POPE CANNOT DO SO SAVE YOUR ENABLING.

YOU CANNOT: Epilusis (g1955)ep-il'-oo-sis; from 1956; explanation, i.e. application: - interpretation.
YOU CANNOT: Epiluo (g1956) ep-ee-loo'-o; from 1909 and 3089; to solve further, i.e. (fig.) to explain, decide: - determine, expound.
YOU CANNOT: Epi-lusis  A. release from, e. phobôn [fear] didou A.Th.134 (lyr.): abs., exemption from banishment, [purgatory?]. The word dissertio also carries the idea of trying to REMOVE fear by explaining away any worry about keeping laws.
YOU CANNOT: 3089 luō loo'-o A primary verb; to "loosen

[desertknight]

Ah, yes, the infinitely intellectual, "That thar Pope feller wear's them fancy clothes and a funny hat so he can't be nuttin' but a deemon." logic.  Astounding what people come up with and pass it as truth.  Puleeeez!

So are you typing your posts while wearing a camel's hair cloth or spun wool cloak?  Do you have your sandals firmly on your feet?  Because if you don't, if your wearing modern garb and typing on a computer, well, we all know that the original Christians would have none of that!  That would be wealth beyond their imagination and far too fancy and we all know that that is what truth in Scripture and doctrine are all about, you know, whether your church has vestments or uses candles or what-not, that was the whole point of our Lord's sacrifice on the cross-His revulsion at fancy stuff.  We all know that one must look just "right" or else they can't be of the right path.  

"I will build my Church and the gates of hell will not prevail against it." (Matt. 16:18).

The Church is the "Pillar and Foundation of Truth." (1 Tim. 3:15)

"He that heareth you heareth Me, and he that despiseth you despiseth Me, and he that despiseth Me, despiseth Him that sent Me"  (Luke 10:16)

"If he refuses to listen even to the Church, then treat him as you would a Gentile or a tax collector.  Amen, I say to you, whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven."  (Matt. 18:17-18)

"We ask you, brothers, to respect those who are laboring among you and who are over you in the Lord and who admonish you, and to show esteem for them with special love on account of their work. Be at peace among yourselves."  (1 Thes. 5:12-13)

"Neglect not the gift that is in thee, which was given thee by prophecy, with the laying on of the hands of the Presbyterate."  (1 Tim. 4:14)

"Wherefore I put thee in remembrance that thou stir up the gift of God, which is in thee by the laying on of my hands."  (2 Tim. 1:6)

"For this cause left I thee in Crete, that thou shouldest set in order the things that are wanting, and ordain Presbyters in every city, as I had appointed thee."  (Tit. 1:5)

"Paul and Timothy, servants of Christ Jesus, to all the saints in Christ Jesus at Philippi, together with the Bishops and Deacons:"   (Phil. 1:1)

"Likewise, you younger members, be subject to the Presbyters."  (1 Peter 5:5)

Apparently the Church, it's Bishops, Presbyters and Deacons, were to last much longer than just the lives of the original Apostles and were to be the "pillar and foundation of truth" and we are to be subject to it's authority.

[Selene]

Ah, yes, the infinitely intellectual, "That thar Pope feller wear's them fancy clothes and a funny hat so he can't be nuttin' but a deemon." logic.  Astounding what people come up with and pass it as truth.  Puleeeez!

They certainly have a strange idea of what a demon is, don't they?   But we know them by the fruits they produce.  And right now, all I see is hatred and more hatred for the Pope and God's true church.  Whatever happened to "love thy neighbor?"  Didn't they learn it from the Bible?     I guess not.   So, let us pray that God sends them a little candlelight to teach them to love their neighbor.      

[winsome]

Protestantism was born in rebellion against Christ's Church. They claim they follow the Scripture but they actually follow their own rebellious hearts and their own private interpretations and private revelations.

They call themselves Bible based but have rejected those Christ left to give true interpretation and teaching, and followed a myriad of false teachers. They have followed false prophets into the wilderness. Like magpies collecting shiny objects for their nests they pluck bit and pieces of scripture out of context, tack them together and call it exegesis.

They listen to the same lie that Satan whispered into Eve's ear in the Garden of Eden – be your own god, you decide what's right and wrong; you decide how you want to worship God. So they have started their own churches, thousands of them, from the bigger congregations like Lutherans, Anglicans, Calvanists, Methodists, Baptists, Pentecostals, SDAs, Plymouth Brethren, Anabaptist, etc, (and all the sub divisions within them) to the one-off one pastor churches. 

Their version of Christianity is all about "my personal relationship with Christ

[Amo]

My name is Selene.  SHEEZ     The Bible says "... 'The whole world is gone after him.' (John 12:19)  Did all the world go after Christ? The Bible also says, 'Ye are of God, little children', and 'the whole world lieth in the wicked one.' (1 John 5:19).  Does 'the whole world' there mean everybody? 

By the way, don't you think you should worry more about Osama Bin Laden rather than the Pope?  Didn't you read my last post? 

John 12:19 The Pharisees therefore said among themselves, Perceive ye how ye prevail nothing? behold, the world is gone after him.

The above words were spoken by the Pharisees. They are not instructional scripture, but rather a quote from the Pharisees, which was obviously an exageration on their part. 

I Jn 5:19 And we know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness.

The above scripture is true, and does refer to the entire world outside of Christ.  The Pope is far more dangerous than Bin Laden, by way of the deceptive power of the false teachings of one professing to speak for Christ.  Bin Laden does not make this false claim.

[Amo]

They certainly have a strange idea of what a demon is, don't they?   But we know them by the fruits they produce.  And right now, all I see is hatred and more hatred for the Pope and God's true church.  Whatever happened to "love thy neighbor?"  Didn't they learn it from the Bible?   Reading  I guess not.   So, let us pray that God sends them a little candlelight to teach them to love their neighbor.   Praying hard 

Love requires that one speak the truth, by way of warning, to those whose souls are in danger by way of deception.

Popery, then, we hold to be an after-growth of Paganism, whose deadly wound, dealt by the spiritual sword of Christianity, was healed. Its oracles had been silenced, its shrines demolished, and its gods consigned to oblivion; but the deep corruption of the human race, not yet cured by the promised effusion of the Spirit upon all flesh, revived it anew, and, under a Christian mask, reared other temples in its honour, built it another Pantheon, and replenished it with other gods, which, in fact, were but the ancient divinities under new names. All idolatries, in whatever age or country they have existed, are to be viewed but as successive developments of the one grand apostacy. That apostacy was commenced in Eden, and consummated at Rome. It had its rise in the plucking of the forbidden fruit; and it attained its acme in the supremacy of the Bishop of Rome,--Christ's Vicar on earth. The hope that he would "be as God," led man to commit the first sin; and that sin was perfected when the Pope "exalted himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he, as God, sitteth in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God." Popery is but the natural development of this great original transgression. It is just the early idolatries ripened and perfected. It is manifestly an enormous expansion of the same intensely malignant and fearfully destructive principle which these idolatries contained. The ancient Chaldean worshipping the sun,--the Greek deifying the powers of nature,--and the Roman exalting the race of primeval men into gods, are but varied manifestations of the same evil principle, namely, the utter alienation of the heart from God,--its proneness to hide itself amid the darkness of its own corrupt imaginations, and to become a god unto itself. That principle received the most fearful development which appears possible on earth, in the Mystery of Iniquity which came to be seated on the Seven Hills; for therein man deified himself, became God, nay, arrogated powers which lifted him high above God. Popery is the last, the most matured, the most subtle, the most skilfully contriven, and the most essentially diabolical form of idolatry which the world ever saw, or which, there is reason to believe, it ever will see. It is the ne plus ultra of man's wickedness, and the chef d'oeuvre of Satan's cunning and malignity. It is the greatest calamity, next to the Fall, which ever befell the human family. Farther away from God the world could not exist at all. The cement that holds society together, already greatly weakened, would be altogether destroyed, and the social fabric would instantly fall in ruins.(Book I. History of the Papacy. By Rev. J.A. Wylie, LL.D. Chapter I. Origin of the Papacy.)

It is not enough to just profess Christ.  We must follow His example and teachings, which involves a separation from this world, and it's false teachings in regard to humanity and God.

[Amo]

Protestantism was born in rebellion against Christ's Church. They claim they follow the Scripture but they actually follow their own rebellious hearts and their own private interpretations and private revelations.

They call themselves Bible based but have rejected those Christ left to give true interpretation and teaching, and followed a myriad of false teachers. They have followed false prophets into the wilderness. Like magpies collecting shiny objects for their nests they pluck bit and pieces of scripture out of context, tack them together and call it exegesis.

They listen to the same lie that Satan whispered into Eve's ear in the Garden of Eden – be your own god, you decide what's right and wrong; you decide how you want to worship God. So they have started their own churches, thousands of them, from the bigger congregations like Lutherans, Anglicans, Calvanists, Methodists, Baptists, Pentecostals, SDAs, Plymouth Brethren, Anabaptist, etc, (and all the sub divisions within them) to the one-off one pastor churches.

Their version of Christianity is all about "my personal relationship with Christ

[winsome]

Protestantism was born in rebellion against Christ's Church. They claim they follow the Scripture but they actually follow their own rebellious hearts and their own private interpretations and private revelations.

They call themselves Bible based but have rejected those Christ left to give true interpretation and teaching, and followed a myriad of false teachers. They have followed false prophets into the wilderness. Like magpies collecting shiny objects for their nests they pluck bit and pieces of scripture out of context, tack them together and call it exegesis.

They listen to the same lie that Satan whispered into Eve's ear in the Garden of Eden – be your own god, you decide what's right and wrong; you decide how you want to worship God. So they have started their own churches, thousands of them, from the bigger congregations like Lutherans, Anglicans, Calvanists, Methodists, Baptists, Pentecostals, SDAs, Plymouth Brethren, Anabaptist, etc, (and all the sub divisions within them) to the one-off one pastor churches.

Their version of Christianity is all about "my personal relationship with Christ

[desertknight]

Love requires that one speak the truth, by way of warning, to those whose souls are in danger by way of deception.

It certainly does.  Let's examine the truth.

Popery, then, we hold to be an after-growth of Paganism, whose deadly wound, dealt by the spiritual sword of Christianity, was healed. Its oracles had been silenced, its shrines demolished, and its gods consigned to oblivion; but the deep corruption of the human race, not yet cured by the promised effusion of the Spirit upon all flesh, revived it anew, and, under a Christian mask, reared other temples in its honour, built it another Pantheon, and replenished it with other gods, which, in fact, were but the ancient divinities under new names.

LIE.  The Pope is the Bishop of Rome, the Chief Bishop of the Church and those offices and responsibilities were created by Christ Himself.  Holy Scripture is abundantly clear on this.  

Other Gods?  LIE.  No such belief exist anywhere in the Catholic Church.  You must be doing the work of Satan, the Prince of Lies, to so knowingly spread what you know to be false about your brother Christians.    

All idolatries, in whatever age or country they have existed, are to be viewed but as successive developments of the one grand apostacy. That apostacy was commenced in Eden, and consummated at Rome. It had its rise in the plucking of the forbidden fruit; and it attained its acme in the supremacy of the Bishop of Rome,--Christ's Vicar on earth. The hope that he would "be as God," led man to commit the first sin; and that sin was perfected when the Pope "exalted himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he, as God, sitteth in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God." Popery is but the natural development of this great original transgression.

LIE  The Pope as Vicar on earth is fulfilling what Christ Himself commanded of His Apostles and the Bishops which they ordained, "As the Father has sent me, so I send you."  Popes, Bishops, and Presbyters use the word, "vicar", in exactly the same way as Lutherans, Anglicans, Methodists and others do, It means literally, "place holder", "representative"  It does not in any way mean that the person is a deity.  Again, you knowingly spread what you know very well to be a lie.  The Prince of Lies works hard for this.

It is just the early idolatries ripened and perfected. It is manifestly an enormous expansion of the same intensely malignant and fearfully destructive principle which these idolatries contained. The ancient Chaldean worshipping the sun,--the Greek deifying the powers of nature,--and the Roman exalting the race of primeval men into gods, are but varied manifestations of the same evil principle, namely, the utter alienation of the heart from God,--its proneness to hide itself amid the darkness of its own corrupt imaginations, and to become a god unto itself. That principle received the most fearful development which appears possible on earth, in the Mystery of Iniquity which came to be seated on the Seven Hills; for therein man deified himself, became God, nay, arrogated powers which lifted him high above God. Popery is the last, the most matured, the most subtle, the most skilfully contriven, and the most essentially diabolical form of idolatry which the world ever saw, or which, there is reason to believe, it ever will see. It is the ne plus ultra of man's wickedness, and the chef d'oeuvre of Satan's cunning and malignity. It is the greatest calamity, next to the Fall, which ever befell the human family. Farther away from God the world could not exist at all. The cement that holds society together, already greatly weakened, would be altogether destroyed, and the social fabric would instantly fall in ruins.(Book I. History of the Papacy. By Rev. J.A. Wylie, LL.D. Chapter I. Origin of the Papacy.)

LIE, and complete and utter rubbish.  If you can prove from one, single, solitary Catholic site, that one single word of this bigoted idiot's view has even a scrap of validity, I'll eat my Santa hat.

It is not enough to just profess Christ.  We must follow His example and teachings, which involves a separation from this world, and it's false teachings in regard to humanity and God.

We must follow His Word as taught by those whom He entrusted such authority through Apostolic Succession down through the ages.  We must remain within the Body of Christ, His Holy Church.

[Amo]

John Calvin had a critic Michael Servetus burned alive in October 1553.

Many thousands of women were burned at the stake by Protestant witch hunters over several hundred years – an estimated 300,000 in Protestant Germany and 30,000 in Britain.

Thousands of Catholics in Ireland were killed by Oliver Croimwell.

Elizabeth I also had thousands of Catholics killed in England and Ireland.

Henry VIII also had hundreds, if not thousands of Catholics killed.


People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

If I approved of any of the above, you would be right.  The Holy Spirit of God, does not convict anyone to kill those who disagree with them.  They were not lead by God, and neither is any other institution which does the same.  Rome however, is the mother of this mind set among supposed "Christians".

[blituri]

I just quoted father Peter who "sealed up" his part of that which would be perfect or "once for all delivered to the saints. He said that Jesus made the PROPHECIES more perfect and that NO ONE has the right to private interpret which means FURTHER EXPOUND.

Christ defined the Church of Christ in the wilderness exclusive of any institution.  It is defined in great detail in the prophets.

On the other hand, the Catholics clearly confess to following the pattern of the MONARCHY with a king, priests and people to offer sacrifices. Then superstitious actually claimed to sacrifice their gods. The kings were the god's agents so they KILLED and ATE the gods and drank his blood.  The sacrificial system replaced the slaughter of innocent animals on a daily basis as a substitute for human sacrifice which they often reverted to.

The MASS is the old Jewish "virtual" murder of the "god" so they can eat his flesh and drink his blood.  In the only Biblical evidence, eating the literaly flesh and blood was wholly REPULSIVE to the apostles.  After they were out of the crowd Jesus said MY WORDS are spirit and life: the only LIFE from Jesus Christ is not His blood but His WORD.  That is why you cannot tamper with it.  Vatican got its power over the other bishops because of its large and closely connected Jewish population.

"Apostolic succession" meant that when elderd die or move on the next elder (local authority only) succeeds the old one and his task is to MAKE CERTAIN that the Biblical text has not been tampered with and he guards it until he dies.

The Catholic Encyclopedia confesses that things like candles, holy water and music were added FROM the pagans because "they were common to all pagan cults." That was when the Bishop of Rome, whom most elders denied as having any superior authority, ACQUIRED civil authority as a WING of the Roman army.

Again, Peter denies that the pope has any right to FURTHER EXPOUND the Word because that would MARK him as  a false teacher.  Not to worry because most of the Catholic organization and worship is PATTERNED after the Jewish monarchy which was NOT the religious center for people.  People met in small groups called synagogues to read and understand the Word of God.  Neither in the EKKLESIA or SYNAGOGUE did anyone have the authority to fabricate their own authority or what was to be read.

Even the Precentors or clergy chanters (called one of the first heresies) are called LEVITES and we do know that the Levites were under the KING and commanders of the army and not the local elders. The Levites were an old Egyptian priesthood who had been involved with the baby burning for Molech which continued in the wilderness, in Jerusalem and in every place where the Catholics set their foot after the POOR PRIESTS who belonged to the Church of Christ were outdated.

Here is where the Catholics got their authority for burning people at the stake: yes, even for owning Bibles.

Jesus set you FREE from the clergy: Christians come one at a time and belonging to a large group almost guarantees that you have been taken captive. If you want to find Jesus you will have to go OUTSIDE of the camp or massed multitudes and SUFFER REPROACHES but where you can "learn of Him" first hand just by reading the Bible and NOT being faked into the notion that a priest is smarter than you.

[Selene]

Love requires that one speak the truth, by way of warning, to those whose souls are in danger by way of deception.

Love means to respect the other person's belief.  Christ never use force on anyone.  We believe in Jesus Christ, but you put us down and condescend our belief in Him.  That is what you are doing.  There is nothing we can do about your jealousy of the Catholic Church.  That is your sin. 

[Selene]

I just quoted father Peter who "sealed up" his part of that which would be perfect or "once for all delivered to the saints. He said that Jesus made the PROPHECIES more perfect and that NO ONE has the right to private interpret which means FURTHER EXPOUND.

Jesus opened the mind of the Apostles so they can understand the Scriptures (Luke 24:45).  It was the Catholic Church that put together the Bible under the guidance of the Holy Spirit, and only the Catholic Church can interpret the Bible under the guidance of that same Holy Spirit.    

On the other hand, the Catholics clearly confess to following the pattern of the MONARCHY with a king, priests and people to offer sacrifices. Then superstitious actually claimed to sacrifice their gods. The kings were the god's agents so they KILLED and ATE the gods and drank his blood.  The sacrificial system replaced the slaughter of innocent animals on a daily basis as a substitute for human sacrifice which they often reverted to.

Do you see Catholics practicing animal sacrifices or even human sacrifices?      The rest of your post is ridiculous and not even worth responding to.

[Selene]

How shocking to see our Protestant brothers to have so much hatred in them.  It is so sad.     So much hatred they have for the Catholic Church.  For what reason do you hate the Catholic Church so much?  The Crusade Wars?  The Inquisition?  Is that the cause of your hatred?  Do you really believe that YOUR church has no sins?  Didn't Jesus taught you not to judge?  So what happened?  Why do you judge?    You, who judge the Catholics as idol worshippers, did not Jesus say "those who are without sin cast the first stone?"  Do you even know what that means? 

You call Catholics idol worshippers?  And what do you call yourselves when you put your family first before anything else including God? Do you honestly believe that you have the same faith as Abraham?  Which one of you is willing to sacrifice your child when you hear God telling you to take your child and kill him/her.  Abraham heard God's voice when God told him to take his child and sacrifice him, and he did it willingly.  Now, which one of you have this kind of faith?  Today, when you hear a voice from heaven telling you to sacrifice your child, you would automatically think it was a voice from Satan.  So, which one of you have Abraham's faith?     

[Amo]

How shocking to see our Protestant brothers to have so much hatred in them.  It is so sad.   Frowning  So much hatred they have for the Catholic Church.  For what reason do you hate the Catholic Church so much?  The Crusade Wars?  The Inquisition?  Is that the cause of your hatred?  Do you really believe that YOUR church has no sins?  Didn't Jesus taught you not to judge?  So what happened?  Why do you judge?    You, who judge the Catholics as idol worshippers, did not Jesus say "those who are without sin cast the first stone?"  Do you even know what that means?

You call Catholics idol worshippers?  And what do you call yourselves when you put your family first before anything else including God? Do you honestly believe that you have the same faith as Abraham?  Which one of you is willing to sacrifice your child when you hear God telling you to take your child and kill him/her.  Abraham heard God's voice when God told him to take his child and sacrifice him, and he did it willingly.  Now, which one of you have this kind of faith?  Today, when you hear a voice from heaven telling you to sacrifice your child, you would automatically think it was a voice from Satan.  So, which one of you have Abraham's faith? 

Telling somebody they are wrong, and hating them, are two different things.  What are you worried about?  If hate is the true motive of any, then God will take care of that.  We are not attempting to murder you by stoning, or any other method, but simply refuting what we see as false claims of authority, and false teachings.  Even though Jesus did not allow the stoning of the woman caught in sin, He did still tell her to go and sin no more.  He did not say that she was not wrong, He simply would not condone her being stoned to death. 

We are telling you that we think you are wrong, and in danger by way of believing false doctrine.  This is not in order to kill you, but to the contrary, for your salvation.  This is a far cry from hating you, and wanting to kill you.

Jesus told the truth with such power and conviction, that those who disagreed with Him decided to kill Him in order to shut Him up.  Was He casting stones at the scribes and pharisees, when He warned them about the truth they were rejecting?  Did He hate them?  No! Disagreeing with someone, and telling them what you believe to be the truth, is not hating them.  Persecuting and murdering those who disagree with you, is certainly hating  them.  No Church that has participated in the same, could possibly have been Christ's Church while doing so.  Nor can any Church which teaches as truth, that which directly contradicts the words of Christ.  I am not casting stones by saying so, but simply speaking the truth.

John 8:6 This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground, as though he heard them not.
7 So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.
8 And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground.
9 And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst.
10 When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee?
11 She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.

[mclees8]

How shocking to see our Protestant brothers to have so much hatred in them.  It is so sad.     So much hatred they have for the Catholic Church.  For what reason do you hate the Catholic Church so much?  The Crusade Wars?  The Inquisition?  Is that the cause of your hatred?  Do you really believe that YOUR church has no sins?  Didn't Jesus taught you not to judge?  So what happened?  Why do you judge?    You, who judge the Catholics as idol worshippers, did not Jesus say "those who are without sin cast the first stone?"  Do you even know what that means? 

You call Catholics idol worshippers?  And what do you call yourselves when you put your family first before anything else including God? Do you honestly believe that you have the same faith as Abraham?  Which one of you is willing to sacrifice your child when you hear God telling you to take your child and kill him/her.  Abraham heard God's voice when God told him to take his child and sacrifice him, and he did it willingly.  Now, which one of you have this kind of faith?  Today, when you hear a voice from heaven telling you to sacrifice your child, you would automatically think it was a voice from Satan.  So, which one of you have Abraham's faith?     

Dear Selene this is not a faith issue but a truth issue. I think you confuse righteous anger with hate. and what is that anger being directed at but the institution that teaches falsely.  Do you think Christ hates deception and false teaching. of course he does. the Pide Piper plays a beautiful flute but leads the children astray. If you knew the piper was leading the children astray would you not shout and do eveything you knew to stop him.  The tragedy here is the power and position of the pope who himself is also deceived. He is misleading a multitude

The resistance of truth here is one of religious pride and your very identity that is to you is being threatened. After all you know other way but the institution that is like prison walls around you. This is what the institution has done. Truth is freedom and liberty in Christ that sets you free from bondage.

Don't get me wrong this is in Protestantism also. Here who he has sent but if the one who says he is sent teaches falsely then is he really sent.

God bless

 

[mclees8]

I would like to share something. Last night I watched a SY FY movies called the Annihilation of the Earth.  Of course it was just a fiction movie. But it depicted a situation between two scientists who were good friends and co workers of the same project in Europe. Although the intent of the project was for good terrorists wanted it for destruction. They thought it would only effect Europe. But scientist knew it would effect the whole world. The one scientist thought they had to shut the system down and the other knew that to that would destroy the earth. Terrorist caught the one scientist name d Raj who was of Islamic descent. They wanted the access code from him but he knew he could not give to them

Meanwhile  the other scientist was under pressure from political superiors who thought Raj was a terrorist.  They told him he must shut the system down. At a critical moment Raj made contact with the other scientist to desperately tell whim not to shut the system down for the earth would become a black hole. The scientist had his family there. And was in a dilemma that meant life and death for the whole world. He desperately wanted to believe Raj buthe was under pressure from his superior who thought  Raj a terrorist  He finally listened to his superior and shut the system down and told his family they were alright. He  was wrong and the earth was destroyed.

amazing similarity here.
God bless
 

[desertknight]

I would like to share something. Last night I watched a SY FY movies called the Annihilation of the Earth.  Of course it was just a fiction movie. But it depicted a situation between two scientists who were good friends and co workers of the same project in Europe. Although the intent of the project was for good terrorists wanted it for destruction. They thought it would only effect Europe. But scientist knew it would effect the whole world. The one scientist thought they had to shut the system down and the other knew that to that would destroy the earth. Terrorist caught the one scientist name d Raj who was of Islamic descent. They wanted the access code from him but he knew he could not give to them

Meanwhile  the other scientist was under pressure from political superiors who thought Raj was a terrorist.  They told him he must shut the system down. At a critical moment Raj made contact with the other scientist to desperately tell whim not to shut the system down for the earth would become a black hole. The scientist had his family there. And was in a dilemma that meant life and death for the whole world. He desperately wanted to believe Raj buthe was under pressure from his superior who thought  Raj a terrorist  He finally listened to his superior and shut the system down and told his family they were alright. He  was wrong and the earth was destroyed.

amazing similarity here.
God bless

WTFudge?  Are you high, Mike?  LoL,  

[Selene]

Dear Selene this is not a faith issue but a truth issue. I think you confuse righteous anger with hate. and what is that anger being directed at but the institution that teaches falsely.  Do you think Christ hates deception and false teaching. of course he does. the Pide Piper plays a beautiful flute but leads the children astray. If you knew the piper was leading the children astray would you not shout and do eveything you knew to stop him.  The tragedy here is the power and position of the pope who himself is also deceived. He is misleading a multitude

The resistance of truth here is one of religious pride and your very identity that is to you is being threatened. After all you know other way but the institution that is like prison walls around you. This is what the institution has done. Truth is freedom and liberty in Christ that sets you free from bondage.

Don't get me wrong this is in Protestantism also. Here who he has sent but if the one who says he is sent teaches falsely then is he really sent.

God bless

Was it not you who say that we should not follow the Church?  The Bible says that we are to follow the Church, and this is what we do because we believe that Christ is the Head of our Church.  You, on the other hand, only follow the Bible.  The Bible is your ONLY authority.  Apparantly, you believe the Bible and ONLY the Bible is your only authority and NOT your church.  And why is that?  Do you not believe that Christ is the Head of YOUR church?  What truth do you speak when you say to go against what is written in the Bible?

Hebrews 13:17 Obey those who rule over you, and be submissive, for they watch out for your souls, as those who must give account. Let them do so with joy and not with grief, for that would be unprofitable for you.

[mclees8]

Dear Selene this is not a faith issue but a truth issue. I think you confuse righteous anger with hate. and what is that anger being directed at but the institution that teaches falsely.  Do you think Christ hates deception and false teaching. of course he does. the Pide Piper plays a beautiful flute but leads the children astray. If you knew the piper was leading the children astray would you not shout and do eveything you knew to stop him.  The tragedy here is the power and position of the pope who himself is also deceived. He is misleading a multitude

The resistance of truth here is one of religious pride and your very identity that is to you is being threatened. After all you know other way but the institution that is like prison walls around you. This is what the institution has done. Truth is freedom and liberty in Christ that sets you free from bondage.

Don't get me wrong this is in Protestantism also. Here who he has sent but if the one who says he is sent teaches falsely then is he really sent.

God bless

Was it not you who say that we should not follow the Church?  The Bible says that we are to follow the Church, and this is what we do because we believe that Christ is the Head of our Church.  You, on the other hand, only follow the Bible.  The Bible is your ONLY authority.  Apparantly, you believe the Bible and ONLY the Bible is your only authority and NOT your church.  And why is that?  Do you not believe that Christ is the Head of YOUR church?  What truth do you speak when you say to go against what is written in the Bible?

Hebrews 13:17 Obey those who rule over you, and be submissive, for they watch out for your souls, as those who must give account. Let them do so with joy and not with grief, for that would be unprofitable for you.

True Selene we are to submit to those who rule over us. we are not rebels of any authority. Ultimately we follow after Christ and all he taught  He then commissioned 
his disciples to live and teach all that he taught concerning truth and walking in the spirit of love for all men. But the lord also said there would be false teachers and false profits. How shall you determine them? We determine them by the word of God. If you have an apple and you cut it half and fined a worm in the one half but he other is still good then you can eat of the good half while you discard the other. Listen we are to be as lambs but he never said we should be as fools.

God bless

[Selene]

True Selene we are to submit to those who rule over us. we are not rebels of any authority. Ultimately we follow after Christ and all he taught  He then commissioned 
his disciples to live and teach all that he taught concerning truth and walking in the spirit of love for all men. But the lord also said there would be false teachers and false profits. How shall you determine them? We determine them by the word of God. If you have an apple and you cut it half and fined a worm in the one half but he other is still good then you can eat of the good half while you discard the other. Listen we are to be as lambs but he never said we should be as fools.

God bless

And in the teachings of our Church, it has always stated that we should not follow ONLY the Bible, which is what you preach.  And anyone who says to follow ONLY the Bible and that the Bible is the sole authority is already going against the Bble.   you say that we can determine the false teachers through the Word of God.  You are correct.  No where in any of the Catholic teaching does iit say that the Bible is the ONLY authority or that we should obey ONLY the Bible and the Bible alone. 

[mclees8]

True Selene we are to submit to those who rule over us. we are not rebels of any authority. Ultimately we follow after Christ and all he taught  He then commissioned 
his disciples to live and teach all that he taught concerning truth and walking in the spirit of love for all men. But the lord also said there would be false teachers and false profits. How shall you determine them? We determine them by the word of God. If you have an apple and you cut it half and fined a worm in the one half but he other is still good then you can eat of the good half while you discard the other. Listen we are to be as lambs but he never said we should be as fools.

God bless

And in the teachings of our Church, it has always stated that we should not follow ONLY the Bible, which is what you preach.  And anyone who says to follow ONLY the Bible and that the Bible is the sole authority is already going against the Bble.   you say that we can determine the false teachers through the Word of God.  You are correct.  No where in any of the Catholic teaching does iit say that the Bible is the ONLY authority or that we should obey ONLY the Bible and the Bible alone. 

Paul said Follow me as I follow Christ. If a man comes to you and teaches you Jesus Christ, and of truth and righteousness, Love God and neighbor. Live in peace and love for all men. And walk in all the things of the spirit . then listen to him. I thank God Jesus taught his Disciples who then went out to teach what he taught. I thank God even more that he did not just leave it up to men but put in their  heart to put it in  writing   to preserve for all time. All your bishops and priests did not learn by men alone. But had to study what was written.  Jesus was tempted of Satan who used scripture but the Lord was not fooled for he knew the whole word saying unto him it is also written .

Study to show thy self approved unto God a man who need not be ashamed  rightly dividing the word of truth. 2nd Tim 2 :15 . Thy word have I hid in my heart that I might not sin against thee Psalms 119:11.  For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.#Heb 4:12

God bless

[blituri]

Jesus opened the mind of the Apostles so they can understand the Scriptures (Luke 24:45).  It was the Catholic Church that put together the Bible under the guidance of the Holy Spirit, and only the Catholic Church can interpret the Bible under the guidance of that same Holy Spirit.   

The Bible is NOT a book but a library. The Old Testament was compiled in a BOOK perhaps 200 years before the time of Christ.  The eunuch had a copy of Isaiah which was like the 100 year old copy found at the Dead Sea.

Bundled "booklets" existed long before there was a Pope in Rome. To much of the religious world, Rome was just considered a small backward town. The Church throughout was called The Church of Christ and the early writers denied that any human had any authority.

The Church of Christ has the PROPHECIES and with ready hand copied documents and the mind of the ministers did not need the completed NEW TESTAMENT in a bound book for all of its essential faith and worship.

The Church of Christ is defined in great details by the Spirit Christ in the WRITING PROPHETS: He did not command the priesthood and bloody sacrifices like the Mass.  Christ commanded us NOT to spend our food money on the Water of the Word which HE supplies free of charge (Isaiah 55).  In Isaiah 58 He defines the TRUE sabbath or rest as LOOKING OUT FOR THE POOR, outlaws seeking our own pleasure or even SPEAKING OUR OWN WORDS.
The Church of Christ began in the wilderness as a SCHOOL (only) of the revealed WORD (only) and outlawed the musical trappings of the clergy.  Peter defined our SOLE teaching resources and defined the ACT OF WORSHIP:

2Pet. 1:19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy;
       whereunto ye do well that ye take heed,
       as unto a light that shineth in a dark place,
       until the day dawn,
       and the day star arise in your hearts:

The REAL Peter absolutely OUTLAWED going beyond what He and others left for our memory.

2Pet. 1:20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.

That means "No further expounding" because that would actually DENY the value of Christ and the real Peter.

Why is this INCLUSIVE and therefore EXCLUSIVE command?

2Pet. 1:21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man:
     but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

     The Holy Spirit then and now is named Christ:

      1Pet. 1:11 Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify,
      when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.

Luke 24:44 And he said unto them,
      These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you,
      that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses,
      and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.
Luke 24:45 Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,

Jesus opened their understanding by TEACHING THEM. Jesus fulfilled WHAT WAS WRITTEN. Peter said that He made the PROPHECIES more perfect and said that if we teach BEYOND that we are false teachers. 2 Peter 1-2

Luke 24:46 And said unto them,
       Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:
Luke 24:47 And that repentance and remission of sins should
       be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.
Luke 24:48 And ye are witnesses of these things.

Only Eye and Ear witnesses to the risen Christ have ANY authority which Jesus continued to explain from WHAT IS WRITTEN.

THEY HAD THE KEY to open up the PLAN OF SALVATION beginning in Jerusalem and NOT changing until He returns.  Acts has Luke FURTHER INTERPRETATING and we don't need it done again.

Acts 1:1 The former treatise have I made, O Theophilus, of all that Jesus began both to do and teach,
Acts 1:2 Until the day in which he was taken up,
      after that he through the Holy Ghost  [That which is written is the Spirit John 6:63)
      had given commandments unto the apostles whom he had chosen:

Popes originated as a way to exercise POLITICAL POWER. Therefore, they are always ELECTED as a political move.  The Pope--unlike Paul as the LAST apostle--is not an EYE and EAR witness of the risen Christ, Jesus does not PICK them and teach them for 3 1/2 years.

Constantine did not care about the theological issues as much as he did keeping the peace and his power play. The succeeding popes eventually claimed the emperor's titles to themselves, Pontifex Maximus and Vicar of Christ. Over the course of time the true Christians separated themselves from the corrupted church, began to call the popes Antichrist and were martyred.

Acts 1:3 To whom also he shewed himself alive after his passion by many infallible proofs,
       being seen of them forty days,
       and speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God:
Acts 1:4 And, being assembled together with them,
       commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem,
       but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me.

The POWER and the SELECTION happened ONLY in Jerusalem: you cannot tarry in Rome.

To replace Judas

Acts 1:15 And in those days Peter stood up in the midst of the disciples,
      and said, (the number of names together were about an hundred and twenty,)
Acts 1:16 Men and brethren, this scripture must needs have been fulfilled,
       which the Holy Ghost by the mouth of David spake before concerning Judas,
       which was guide to them that took Jesus.

ONLY THOSE WITHIN THAT TINY REMNATE WERE QUALIFIED TO BE APOSTLES.

Acts 1:21 Wherefore of these men
       which have companied with us all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us,
Acts 1:22
LEFT BRACKET:    Beginning from the baptism of John,
RIGHT BRACKET: unto that same day that he was taken up from us,
                           must one be ordained to be a witness with us of his resurrection.

NO ONE REPLACED PETER.

Paul said that he became an apostle AFTER APOSTLE SEASON.  This is like shooting a deer AFTER deer season. Even so, Jesus appeared to Paul, spoke to Paul and commanded Paul go GO OUT and suffer and DIE.

Acts 26:16 But rise, and stand upon thy feet:
      for I have appeared unto thee for this purpose,
      to make thee a minister and a witness
      both of these things which thou hast seen,
      and of those things in the which I will appear unto thee;

Acts 26:17 Delivering thee from the people,
      and from the Gentiles, unto whom now I send thee,
Acts 26:18 To open their eyes,  [believe]
      and to turn them from darkness to light, [baptism]
      and from the power of Satan unto God,
      that they may receive forgiveness of sins,
      and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me. [Added to the church of Christ]

THE POPE DOES NOT DO THAT: DOES NOT TEACH THAT.

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them,
       Repent, and be baptized every one of you
       in the name of Jesus Christ
       for the remission of sins,
       and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Baptism means immersion in water for or IN ORDER to the remission of sins AND receiving A holy spirit AFTER their old sins have been washed away.  Infants cannot hear, believe, sin, repent, confess or request baptism on their own.

[Selene]

Paul said Follow me as I follow Christ. If a man comes to you and teaches you Jesus Christ, and of truth and righteousness, Love God and neighbor. Live in peace and love for all men. And walk in all the things of the spirit . then listen to him. I thank God Jesus taught his Disciples who then went out to teach what he taught. I thank God even more that he did not just leave it up to men but put in their  heart to put it in  writing   to preserve for all time. All your bishops and priests did not learn by men alone. But had to study what was written.  Jesus was tempted of Satan who used scripture but the Lord was not fooled for he knew the whole word saying unto him it is also written .

Study to show thy self approved unto God a man who need not be ashamed  rightly dividing the word of truth. 2nd Tim 2 :15 . Thy word have I hid in my heart that I might not sin against thee Psalms 119:11.  For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.#Heb 4:12

God bless

My brother, the Catholic Church never went against the Bible for we also believe that the Bible is the inspired word of God.  If there is something you disagree with the Church teachings, then start a post on it, and the Catholics on this forum board will be happy to answer your question.

As for the interpretation of Scripture, we leave that to the Church rather than to individual private interpretation.  We do not adhere to private interpretations.   St. Peter told us not to make any kind of private interpretation of the Bible and with good reason.  Let's say for example, that 100 years ago, someone wrote these six words "I never said you stole money."  With just these six words, one can come up with 4 different interpretation.  How? 

Person #1 could interpret these six words as "I never said you stole money" implying that he/she never said it and that it was someone else who said it.

Person #2 could interpret these six words "I never said YOU stole money" implying that the person named someone else to have stolen money. 

Person #3 could interpret these six words "I never said you STOLE money" implying that the person said that the money was not stolen but borrowed or loaned. 

Person #4 could interpret these six words "I never said you stole MONEY" implying that it wasn't money that was stolen but something else. 

So which interpretation do you think is correct?  Now, do you see why there are more than 30,000 different Protestant denominations who read the exact same Bible but came up with so many different interpretations ?  In the Catholic Church, we have only one interpretation, and how do we know that it is the correct one?  It is because we have the Apostolic tradition that was handed down to us by the Apostles themselves. 

Peace be with you,
Selene

[mclees8]

Mike
Paul said Follow me as I follow Christ. If a man comes to you and teaches you Jesus Christ, and of truth and righteousness, Love God and neighbor. Live in peace and love for all men. And walk in all the things of the spirit . then listen to him. I thank God Jesus taught his Disciples who then went out to teach what he taught. I thank God even more that he did not just leave it up to men but put in their  heart to put it in  writing   to preserve for all time. All your bishops and priests did not learn by men alone. But had to study what was written.  Jesus was tempted of Satan who used scripture but the Lord was not fooled for he knew the whole word saying unto him it is also written .

Study to show thy self approved unto God a man who need not be ashamed  rightly dividing the word of truth. 2nd Tim 2 :15 . Thy word have I hid in my heart that I might not sin against thee Psalms 119:11.  For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.#Heb 4:12

God bless
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Selene
My brother, the Catholic Church never went against the Bible for we also believe that the Bible is the inspired word of God.  If there is something you disagree with the Church teachings, then start a post on it, and the Catholics on this forum board will be happy to answer your question..

Mike
. Im not here to argue doctrines or debate even though I know many are false.

Selene
As for the interpretation of Scripture, we leave that to the Church rather than to individual private interpretation.  We do not adhere to private interpretations.   St. Peter told us not to make any kind of private interpretation of the Bible and with good reason.  Let's say for example, that 100 years ago, someone wrote these six words "I never said you stole money."  With just these six words, one can come up with 4 different interpretation.  How?

Person #1 could interpret these six words as "I never said you stole money" implying that he/she never said it and that it was someone else who said it.

Person #2 could interpret these six words "I never said YOU stole money" implying that the person named someone else to have stolen money.

Person #3 could interpret these six words "I never said you STOLE money" implying that the person said that the money was not stolen but borrowed or loaned.

Person #4 could interpret these six words "I never said you stole MONEY" implying that it wasn't money that was stolen but something else.

So which interpretation do you think is correct?  Now, do you see why there are more than 30,000 different Protestant denominations who read the exact same Bible but came up with so many different interpretations ?  In the Catholic Church, we have only one interpretation, and how do we know that it is the correct one?  It is because we have the Apostolic tradition that was handed down to us by the Apostles themselves.

Peace be with you,

Mike
Selene did I lie to you? Did I make some mistake of interpretation in  my comments  that I just said to you. Or any of them.  No catholic or Protestant told me what to say. I just knew. God put those scripture in my heart and no one put up a flash card  except the Holy Spirit. The Gospel of salvation through Christ is not hard to understand. What we need to watch out for are those who perverse it for another.
This is why the apostles were moved of the holy spirit to write it and warn of those who would teach a false gospel.   In our bible we have access to the same doctrines and traditions the apostles taught  Now there was 400 years from the apostles to the papacy in five hundred AD yet  in all that time there were no New doctrines taught that I know of,  but now in 500 AD the papacy becomes a religious political entity that Christ never ordained and give themselves power to invent any doctrine or tradition they wanted aside from any that the apostles had taught and then tell you they have authority from God to so with this line of succession and then to tighten the chains even more they  use the Scripture of no private interpretation to further keep you in bondage. On top of that they claim infallibility   Do you believe that what the apostles taught was complete? I do. Yes the reformation did creat many denominations but one thing holds true and its the reason they fought so hard to keep the bible out of the hands of the people is for the first timer they knew that the RCC was not lining up with scripture. Before  No one could challenge them for they were the power of Rome. How easy it was to play on the ignorant. But like I said I'm not here to argue doctrines .   This is what you would like. That battle will never end.  I like common sense approach better.

I don't often rely on commentaries or copy pasting things, but sometimes I do but I don't so much do it  before the fact but usually just to see if they confirm things I have already sensed . I have a new bible program in my computer and it has a whole bible commentary in it.   These commentaries I have not seen  until the night before so these are after the fact..

I have talked many times about the over emphasis of authority which the papacy claims. It isn't that there is an authority so much as their need to over emphasize that makes me suspect. Call it a gut instinct This is central to all that is argued here and I know something is wrong.  I have spoke  of the exalting of the clergy that separates the laity  The whole accent is their  position of  authority. And how they  say you cannot hear from God except. through them.    At least this is clear jest that I get.   I t is like they are wanting to intimidate to have total control. They are quick to use anything that that supports it. They flaunt it even with all the religious garbs and ritual ceremony.
This of course does not mean much to you. Are you a mother? Have you ever had a gut instinct about  something. No you cannot prove it but you know its there. Things are not always what they seem.  They keep a good front but you still smell some foul smell somewhere.   

   Rebuke of the church. 2:14–15.
14. In Ephesus there was one cause of censure; here Christ says a few things. Pergamos was one of the fulfillments of Paul's warning in Acts 20:29–30. Notice the decline from Ephesus where the deeds of the Nicolatanes were hated, to Pergamos where their teaching was held and tolerated. It appears that the teaching of Balaam and that of the Nicolatanes are distinct, but they have the same disastrous results. Numbers 25:1–9 gives a clear picture of the union of church and state. Balaam taught Balak how to draw Israel away from their position of separation (Num 23:9).
15. The doctrine of the Nicolatanes, as already noticed in the church of Ephesus, has reference to clericalism, which developed rapidly in this era of the church. There is no basis in Scripture now for a special class of priests, such as God instituted in Israel (cf. Lev 8). The ultimate claim of Nicolatanism is infallibility.

Mike
This is not the first time I have gotten the picture of when the clergy became exalted above the laity. It had its roots somewhere. Nowhere is this more evident then the RCC. Oh yes its used in other denoms but we know who dressed up first
#

20. That woman Jezebel (cf. I Kgs 19–21) was the wife of Ahab and the source of idolatry in Israel. Balaam attacked Israel from without; she, from within. Recall that she was a stranger in Israel; she was responsible for the worst idolatry in the nation, and she persecuted the servants of God. Which calleth herself (never called of God) a prophetess, claiming infallibility in setting forth doctrine and new revelation from God. The dogmas of papal Rome are clearly discerned. This church leads people astray by her teaching; it points them away from divine authority to man's. But there is still a remnant of the faithful bond servants of Christ. As a counterpart of Jezebel of old, there is a godless consorting with the world and an intricate system of worship of idols.
21. Space to repent ... she repented not. In His grace and forbearance God gave this church time to repent. Godly men called upon the church to repent, but she refused to do so. Therefore, there is no call to repent in this letter. Only judgment remains. This church remains apart from the truth of God until she is joined with all the systems of religious evil of the world (cf. chs. 18–19).

Mike > (In short joined to Babylon.) He said, "it points them (God children) away from divine authority to mans.

[Selene]

Mike
Selene did I lie to you? Did I make some mistake of interpretation in  my comments  that I just said to you. Or any of them.  No catholic or Protestant told me what to say. I just knew. God put those scripture in my heart and no one put up a flash card  except the Holy Spirit. The Gospel of salvation through Christ is not hard to understand. What we need to watch out for are those who perverse it for another.

Mike, the fact that you already said that we are not to follow the Church and only the Bible. (Deleted - Please do not flame) No where in the Bible does it say that we should follow only Scripture and Scripture alone.  

[farouk]

S:

a lie. 

That's a terrible thing to say about trusting the Bible.

[larry2]

Mike
Selene did I lie to you? Did I make some mistake of interpretation in  my comments  that I just said to you. Or any of them.  No catholic or Protestant told me what to say. I just knew. God put those scripture in my heart and no one put up a flash card  except the Holy Spirit. The Gospel of salvation through Christ is not hard to understand. What we need to watch out for are those who perverse it for another.

Mike, the fact that you already said that we are not to follow the Church and only the Bible and the Bible alone. (Deleted - Please do not flame) No where in the Bible does it say that we should follow only Scripture and Scripture alone. 

I do not care what Matthew 16:16-18 is thought to mean, it will not override other scripture.

Galatians 1:8  But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

Galatians 1:9  As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

[mclees8]

Mike
Selene did I lie to you? Did I make some mistake of interpretation in  my comments  that I just said to you. Or any of them.  No catholic or Protestant told me what to say. I just knew. God put those scripture in my heart and no one put up a flash card  except the Holy Spirit. The Gospel of salvation through Christ is not hard to understand. What we need to watch out for are those who perverse it for another.

Mike, the fact that you already said that we are not to follow the Church and only the Bible and the Bible alone. (Deleted - Please do not flame) No where in the Bible does it say that we should follow only Scripture and Scripture alone. 

I do not care what Matthew 16:16-18 is thought to mean, it will not override other scripture.

Galatians 1:8  But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

Galatians 1:9  As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

Thanks Larry

Dear Selene I do not know why you are so hung up about this. Its the authority thing that blinds you. They have drummed this into your head. To know Christ is to live Christ. I read my Bible but I don't carry it on my back. Why? because the word is now living in me. I obey authority but it is not authority that makes me live for Christ but it is his word in me that works for righteness, love and and compassion for others.  Why  is that hard to understand? 

[mclees8]

S:

a lie. 

That's a terrible thing to say about trusting the Bible.

Hey You are not the girl who plays on Stargate are you. You look just like her

god bless

[Selene]

S:

a lie.

That's a terrible thing to say about trusting the Bible.

I never said that trusting the Bible was a lie.  I said that Mike's statement about not following the Church and only the Bible and the Bible alone was a lie.  The part that was deleted was pointing to what Mike said, not to the Bible     Apparantly, someone doesn't understand how to read English.   


"Mike, the fact that you already said that we are not to follow the Church and only the Bible. (Deleted - Please do not flame)

[Selene]

Dear Selene I do not know why you are so hung up about this. Its the authority thing that blinds you. They have drummed this into your head. To know Christ is to live Christ. I read my Bible but I don't carry it on my back. Why? because the word is now living in me. I obey authority but it is not authority that makes me live for Christ but it is his word in me that works for righteness, love and and compassion for others.  Why  is that hard to understand? 

Mike, the Bible that you follow as your sole authority already told you to also follow the Church for Christ is the Head of the Church.  And you disobeyed it.  The Bible lives in your heart?  That's a new one to me.  I have the Holy Spirit in me telling me that only the Spirit of God can live in a person's heart.  I was never baptized by the Bible.  I was baptized by the Holy Spirit, which now lives within me. 

[mclees8]

Dear Selene I do not know why you are so hung up about this. Its the authority thing that blinds you. They have drummed this into your head. To know Christ is to live Christ. I read my Bible but I don't carry it on my back. Why? because the word is now living in me. I obey authority but it is not authority that makes me live for Christ but it is his word in me that works for righteness, love and and compassion for others.  Why  is that hard to understand? 

Mike, the Bible that you follow as your sole authority already told you to also follow the Church for Christ is the Head of the Church.  And you disobeyed it.  The Bible lives in your heart?  That's a new one to me.  I have the Holy Spirit in me telling me that only the Spirit of God can live in a person's heart.  I was never baptized by the Bible.  I was baptized by the Holy Spirit, which now lives within me. 

Apparently you think the Bible is just a book. It is the Holy Spirit personafied. Just as Jesus said my words are spirit and they are life. If you continue in my word then you are my disciples indeed and you shall know thew truth and the truth shall set you free. If his word is in my heart the Holy Spirit is also in me. If the Holy Spirit is in you then his word is in you also. The book is supernatural Selene.   I respect those of authority when they  speak the things of Christ but it all goes back to the book for without it they would have to go back in time to when the apostles still were with us.

God bless

[Selene]

Apparently you think the Bible is just a book. It is the Holy Spirit personafied. Just as Jesus said my words are spirit and they are life. If you continue in my word then you are my disciples indeed and you shall know thew truth and the truth shall set you free. If his word is in my heart the Holy Spirit is also in me. If the Holy Spirit is in you then his word is in you also. The book is supernatural Selene.   I respect those of authority when they  speak the things of Christ but it all goes back to the book for without it they would have to go back in time to when the apostles still were with us.

God bless

My brother, the Bible is not to be worshipped.  God or the Holy Spirit is not the Bible nor is He any kind of book.  God is pure spirit.  The Bible should never be worshipped because the Bible was never God.  We worship God and only God.  This is what our Church teaches.   God existed even before the Bible was created. 

[larry2]

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.