Christian Forums

Quote from: Giver on Tue Nov 22, 2011 - 09:52:22

Quote from: MeMyself on Tue Nov 22, 2011 - 08:52:31

Quote from: Giver on Tue Nov 22, 2011 - 06:45:17
cs80918,


Saved does not mean he or she will enter the kingdom of Heaven.

If a saved person sins he or she will not enter the kingdom of Heaven.

(1 Corinthians 6:9-19) "You know perfectly well that people who do wrong will not inherit the Kingdom of God: people of immoral lives, idolaters, adulterers, catamites, sodomites, thieves, usurers, drunkards, slanders and swindlers will never inherit the kingdom of God.

Quote from: Giver on Tue Nov 22, 2011 - 09:52:22

Quote from: MeMyself on Tue Nov 22, 2011 - 08:52:31

Quote from: Giver on Tue Nov 22, 2011 - 06:45:17
cs80918,


Saved does not mean he or she will enter the kingdom of Heaven.

If a saved person sins he or she will not enter the kingdom of Heaven.

(1 Corinthians 6:9-19) "You know perfectly well that people who do wrong will not inherit the Kingdom of God: people of immoral lives, idolaters, adulterers, catamites, sodomites, thieves, usurers, drunkards, slanders and swindlers will never inherit the kingdom of God.

Quote from: cs80918 on Mon Nov 21, 2011 - 20:57:53

Quote from: Giver on Mon Nov 21, 2011 - 19:50:24

Quote from: cs80918 on Mon Nov 21, 2011 - 15:10:20

Quote from: Giver on Mon Nov 21, 2011 - 14:13:46

Quote from: cs80918 on Mon Nov 21, 2011 - 14:02:37
Giver after you became a christian have you remained sinless?

Also, how can someone become a christian like you are?

I became a Christian when I was a Child.  That is what I stayed for the next forty years an infant in Christ.

When Jesus started teaching me and gave me his Holy Spirit then I grew to become a spiritual Christian.

A spiritual Christian is what a Christians are supposed to become.  Jesus will give his Holy Spirit to those who keep asking.  If there were any people truly walking in the gift of an apostle then one would receive the Holy Spirit from their laying hands on one. 

After one receives the Holy Spirit he or she need to allow the Holy Spirit to teach them.  That can be a problem for many.  People have been taught by man for so long that they would rather listen to man's teachings then God's.  Man teachings seem to an unspiritual person to be easer to live.

When you were an infant in Christ and sinning at that time, if you would of died while being an infant in Christ would you have gone to heaven or been cast into the burning lake of fire?

When you were an infant in Christ are you saying you did not have the holy spirit in you?

My understanding of the scripture is that everyone who is born again has been given the Holy Spirit.  We either choose to obey the Holy Spirit or not from the beginning when we were first born again in Christ.

Through a learning and chastising process we grow in maturity in Christ as we  yield more and more to God.  Some people are very hard headed and it takes longer than others, but when we begin to realize that God's will is better than our will, then we submit more and more to God's will.

When we are born again, we are at first infants in Christ.  We are merchanise that Jesus has bought.  The bible says we were bought.  Which means he owns us.  We still have free will bought by process known and unknown to us God will work on us to form us in the image of Jesus.  Some people it takes longer than others to yield to God.  God will do what it takes to help his PROPERTY his MERCHANDISE conform to the image of Jesus.

In your words did you remain a infant in Christ for forty years, because you had not asked Jesus for the Holy Spirit enough?

Ever since I was born again about 30 years ago, I've had the Holy Spirit with me the whole time trying to mold me into the image if Jesus.  Being hard headed God has taught me many things the hard way.  My biggest stumbling block has been my natural mind against his will.

These are things I would say in my mind "But God your way doesn't seem like any fun at all" or "Maybe I can sin a little in this area and it won't affect in other area, because I'll repent and God will forgive me"

I've come to realize the hard way that when we disobey God we not only displease God, but many times we end up hurting ourself and other people, because we were living according to the flesh instead of walking in the spirit.

I throught the Holy SPirit leading me have learned to pray more often for spiritual things like.  rightouseness through Jesus and love, mercy, kindness. and peace. Things that only God can give someone.

I hope you are concerned about carnal Christians.  How do you suggest they can learn to walk in the spirit?



1 Corinthians 7:23
You were bought at a price; do not become slaves of men

For the first forty years of my life I had no idea what it meant to have the Holy Spirit.  A bishop laid hands on me when I was about eight years old, and I was told that meant I had the Holy Spirit.  There was no explanation of what that meant other then it was supposed to be of some help in living my life.

I know now there is a manifestation of the Holy Spirit when he is leading one.  Having the Holy Spirit is a relationship between God and us. 

When the Holy Spirit started to manifest himself to me, it was through the gifts of the Holy Spirit.  But the Holy Spirit/Jesus did not begin to teach me until I accepted Jesus call to his ministry.  After that there is no way I would have ever not done everything I was taught, and told to do. 

My understanding of the relationship of an infant in Christ and God is that he or she is the same as ordinary people, except they may be saved.  Now saved does not mean he or she will enter the kingdom of Heaven.  It only means they may not go to Hell.  If one sins he or she is not a spiritual Christian, and will be judged by the law.

What do you mean by the following things you said?-

Now saved does not mean he or she will enter the kingdom of Heaven.  It only means they may not go to Hell.  If one sins he or she is not a spiritual Christian, and will be judged by the law.


If  someone does not go to heaven or hell then where do they go?

Also, how are you walking in the spirit? 

I am also assuming you are Catholic?

According to an earlier post Giver practices "a pre-Constantine, the Great Christianity" as taught to him by Jesus. He does not adhere to the Catholic Faith as we who do know we are sinners who can be forgiven throgh Jesus Christ completely if or when sin happens.

.


IMO....

A person who isn't sinful isn't alive.

Now, whether that is "credited" to a Christian and/or is forgivable (and thus forgotten) are other matters for another day and  thread.




.

Quote: "Ever since I was born again about 30 years ago, I've had the Holy Spirit with me the whole time trying to mold me into the image if Jesus.  Being hard headed God has taught me many things the hard way.  My biggest stumbling block has been my natural mind against his will."

OK...as one not having the indwelling of the Holy Spirit could you tell me in what way does one
"born again about 30 years ago" NOT know that God was trying to mold you into the image of Jesus?

Was the Spirit just sitting in your heart and waiting for you to get the message?
Keeping in mind that Jesus said in John 14:14 "If you shall ask anything in my name I will do it."
Were you "too hard headed" to ask?
Did you not receive the Holy Spirit by asking Jesus into your heart?

If I understand 2 Corinthians 5:12 you believe that you have received not the spirit of the world, but
the spirit which is of God; that you might know the things that are freely given to you by God."

Someone like me, who is the "natural man who receives NOT the Spirit of God" can be expected to
NOT know the Holy Spirit via experience (v. 13); therefore, I admit being dumber than a man getting kicked
by a mule the second time as educated.

But, you sir, being "born again about 30 years ago," or Spirit regenerated would be programed to
"teach which the Holy Spirit teaches; comparing spiritual things with spiritual" would you not?
If I am reading verse 10 of Corinthians 2 correctly, did not God "reveal" to you the "deep things of God"?

I would appreciate if all you "born again" Christians would show pity on those of us who come to this forum
who do NOT "have the mind of Christ" (v 16)
Understanding NOT "the deep things of God,
I have to admit, I "study to show myself approved unto God" (2 Timothy 2:15) but keep on
getting kicked by that mule.

People don't you ever wonder how Martin Luther, and Calvin could ever believe: "The few are those who trust in the finished work of Jesus on the cross for the atonement of our sins.  The cross of our Lord is the narrow door; you are one of the many billions out their who trust in something else.

Quote from: Giver on Tue Nov 22, 2011 - 10:57:13
People don't you ever wonder how Martin Luther, and Calvin could ever believe: "The few are those who trust in the finished work of Jesus on the cross for the atonement of our sins.  The cross of our Lord is the narrow door; you are one of the many billions out their who trust in something else.

Quote from: Giver on Tue Nov 22, 2011 - 10:57:13
People don't you ever wonder how Martin Luther, and Calvin could ever believe: "The few are those who trust in the finished work of Jesus on the cross for the atonement of our sins.  The cross of our Lord is the narrow door; you are one of the many billions out their who trust in something else.

Quote from: MeMyself on Tue Nov 22, 2011 - 11:06:29

Quote from: Giver on Tue Nov 22, 2011 - 10:57:13
People don't you ever wonder how Martin Luther, and Calvin could ever believe: "The few are those who trust in the finished work of Jesus on the cross for the atonement of our sins.  The cross of our Lord is the narrow door; you are one of the many billions out their who trust in something else.

You know that even the best and most mature of christians sin (fall short, miss the mark) several times if not hundreds of times every day.

That is not an excuse for being unrighteous; it is an honest etimation of how bad off we all truly are.

Quote from: DaveW on Tue Nov 22, 2011 - 12:16:11
You know that even the best and most mature of christians sin (fall short, miss the mark) several times if not hundreds of times every day.

That is not an excuse for being unrighteous; it is an honest etimation of how bad off we all truly are.

Jesus came here to give us a way to not keep on failing.

(1 John 3:9) "No one, who has been begotten by God sins; because God's seed remains inside him, he cannot sin when he has been begotten by God.

Quote from: DaveW on Tue Nov 22, 2011 - 12:16:11
You know that even the best and most mature of christians sin (fall short, miss the mark) several times if not hundreds of times every day.

That is not an excuse for being unrighteous; it is an honest etimation of how bad ofhis tithef we all truly are.

No! Don't you understand? Giver has apparantly reached a level that few others have. In his mind he sins no more. He never gets mad, never lustful, always turns the other cheek, never refuses money to the homeless person, picks up EVERY hitchhiker he sees, always contributes his tithe. You ARE giving 10 percent of your salary off the top to the Lord, right Giver?

Quote from: Giver on Tue Nov 22, 2011 - 11:59:28

Quote from: MeMyself on Tue Nov 22, 2011 - 11:06:29

Quote from: Giver on Tue Nov 22, 2011 - 10:57:13
People don't you ever wonder how Martin Luther, and Calvin could ever believe: "The few are those who trust in the finished work of Jesus on the cross for the atonement of our sins.  The cross of our Lord is the narrow door; you are one of the many billions out their who trust in something else.

Quote from: Giver on Tue Nov 22, 2011 - 12:23:51

Quote from: DaveW on Tue Nov 22, 2011 - 12:16:11
You know that even the best and most mature of christians sin (fall short, miss the mark) several times if not hundreds of times every day.

That is not an excuse for being unrighteous; it is an honest etimation of how bad off we all truly are.

Jesus came here to give us a way to not keep on failing.

(1 John 3:9) "No one, who has been begotten by God sins; because God's seed remains inside him, he cannot sin when he has been begotten by God.

Giver how many people do you think will be in heaven according to your beliefs that they must be sinless?

You and who else?  If that is the case there will be few in heaven. 


In the book of revelation there are multiples of people in heaven.  I know what you say can not be true, because if you say were true there would be less than 100 if none in heaven.

Notice that the verse after 1 John 2:1 are warnings.

1 John 2:1
My dear children, I write this to you so that you will not sin. But if anybody does sin, we have one who speaks to the Father in our defense--Jesus Christ, the Righteous One.

He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.

We know that we have come to know him if we obey his commands

The man who says, "I know him," but does not do what he commands is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

But if anyone obeys his word, God's love is truly made complete in him. This is how we know we are in him:

Whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus did.



Give I bet if you are honest and open your life up to us for an indepth evaulation, we will find sin in you.

Quote from: MeMyself on Tue Nov 22, 2011 - 12:53:53

Quote from: Giver on Tue Nov 22, 2011 - 12:23:51

Quote from: DaveW on Tue Nov 22, 2011 - 12:16:11
You know that even the best and most mature of christians sin (fall short, miss the mark) several times if not hundreds of times every day.

That is not an excuse for being unrighteous; it is an honest etimation of how bad off we all truly are.

Jesus came here to give us a way to not keep on failing.

(1 John 3:9) "No one, who has been begotten by God sins; because God's seed remains inside him, he cannot sin when he has been begotten by God.

Giver how many people do you think will be in heaven?

What works have you done to become sinless?

Giver- name some people in the bible that have reached your level and tell me exatcly in what verse they reached your level.

Quote from: Giver on Tue Nov 22, 2011 - 13:34:38

Quote from: MeMyself on Tue Nov 22, 2011 - 12:53:53

Quote from: Giver on Tue Nov 22, 2011 - 12:23:51

Quote from: DaveW on Tue Nov 22, 2011 - 12:16:11
You know that even the best and most mature of christians sin (fall short, miss the mark) several times if not hundreds of times every day.

That is not an excuse for being unrighteous; it is an honest etimation of how bad off we all truly are.

Jesus came here to give us a way to not keep on failing.

(1 John 3:9) "No one, who has been begotten by God sins; because God's seed remains inside him, he cannot sin when he has been begotten by God.

Giver don't you care about us?  If you believe we are not going to enter the kingdom of heaven, why don't you teach us how we can enter the kingdom of heaven?

Do you not have any mercy on us?  Do you want us not to enter the kingdom of God?  What must we do so we can go to heaven?  How did you overcome sinning?

What are the steps that you took and are taking?

Quote from: Elvisman on Tue Nov 22, 2011 - 15:28:10

Quote from: Giver on Sun Nov 20, 2011 - 10:08:42
The Christianity I practice is a pre-Constantine the Great Christianity, as taught to me by Jesus.

There is not an organized/denominational Church today that is teaching the whole Word of God. 

Because no church is teaching the whole Word of God there are very few people who: (John 14:21-23) "Whoever holds to my commandments and keeps them is the one who loves me; and whoever loves me will be loved by my Father, and I shall love him and reveal myself to him.' Judas –not Judas Iscariot – said to him, 'Lord, what has happened that you intend to show yourself to us and not to the world?  Jesus replied: Anyone who loves me will keep my word and my Father will love him, and we shall come to him and make a home in him.

Quote from: gospel on Tue Nov 22, 2011 - 15:40:32

Quote from: Elvisman on Tue Nov 22, 2011 - 15:28:10

Quote from: Giver on Sun Nov 20, 2011 - 10:08:42
The Christianity I practice is a pre-Constantine the Great Christianity, as taught to me by Jesus.

There is not an organized/denominational Church today that is teaching the whole Word of God.  

Because no church is teaching the whole Word of God there are very few people who: (John 14:21-23) "Whoever holds to my commandments and keeps them is the one who loves me; and whoever loves me will be loved by my Father, and I shall love him and reveal myself to him.' Judas –not Judas Iscariot – said to him, 'Lord, what has happened that you intend to show yourself to us and not to the world?  Jesus replied: Anyone who loves me will keep my word and my Father will love him, and we shall come to him and make a home in him.

Quote from: cs80918 on Tue Nov 22, 2011 - 14:09:58
Giver how many people do you think will be in heaven?

What works have you done to become sinless?

I answered Jesus' call, and obeyed him ever sense.  Jesus said: (Matthew 7:13-14) "Enter by the narrow gate since the road that leads to perdition is wide and spacious, and many take it; but it is a narrow gate and a hard road that leads to life, and only a few find it.

Quote from: MeMyself on Tue Nov 22, 2011 - 14:47:22

Quote from: Giver on Tue Nov 22, 2011 - 13:34:38

Quote from: MeMyself on Tue Nov 22, 2011 - 12:53:53

Quote from: Giver on Tue Nov 22, 2011 - 12:23:51

Quote from: DaveW on Tue Nov 22, 2011 - 12:16:11
You know that even the best and most mature of christians sin (fall short, miss the mark) several times if not hundreds of times every day.

That is not an excuse for being unrighteous; it is an honest etimation of how bad off we all truly are.

Jesus came here to give us a way to not keep on failing.

(1 John 3:9) "No one, who has been begotten by God sins; because God's seed remains inside him, he cannot sin when he has been begotten by God.

Quote from: cs80918 on Tue Nov 22, 2011 - 15:35:46
Giver don't you care about us?  If you believe we are not going to enter the kingdom of heaven, why don't you teach us how we can enter the kingdom of heaven?

Do you not have any mercy on us?  Do you want us not to enter the kingdom of God?  What must we do so we can go to heaven?  How did you overcome sinning?

What are the steps that you took and are taking?

(John 14:21-23) "Whoever holds to my commandments and keeps them is the one who loves me; and whoever loves me will be loved by my Father, and I shall love him and reveal myself to him.' Judas –not Judas Iscariot – said to him, 'Lord, what has happened that you intend to show yourself to us and not to the world?  Jesus replied: Anyone who loves me will keep my word and my Father will love him, and we shall come to him and make a home in him.

What a con?  To take Christ at His word?  He said He alone is the way to the Father, HE is the narrow road.  He is our advocate with the Father, who casts our sins as far as east from west and remembers them no more.  He promises to be faithful to complete the good work *begun* at salvation.  We are sealed with the Holy Spirit and NOTHING can pluck us from His hand.  I've no fear of the "Lord! Lord!" verse, because I *have* confessed with my mouth that Jesus is Lord and believed with ALL my heart that God raised Him from the dead. I know I am in Christ Jesus and there is NO condemnation for those who in Christ. I do not set my feet to deliberately sin, but sin happens because I am human and of a sin nature...I am forgiven and will be forgiven until my life is complete!  God promises this! I *do* make it my aim to live as Holy a life as possible, but even then...I can't even *begin* to measure up to HIS perfect holiness!

Just makes me sad for you, Giver, for I fear it is you who will have a lot of explaining to do on judgement day.  What answer will *you* give if  He were to ask you why He should let you enter His kingdom? (PST!  Remember, all our righteousness measures up to being a big ol stinking pile of filthy rags compaired to His...)

Quote from: MeMyself on Tue Nov 22, 2011 - 18:28:44
What a con?  To take Christ at His word?  He said He alone is the way to the Father, HE is the narrow road.  He is our advocate with the Father, who casts our sins as far as east from west and remembers them no more.  He promises to be faithful to complete the good work *begun* at salvation.  We are sealed with the Holy Spirit and NOTHING can pluck us from His hand.  I've no fear of the "Lord! Lord!" verse, because I *have* confessed with my mouth that Jesus is Lord and believed with ALL my heart that God raised Him from the dead. I know I am in Christ Jesus and there is NO condemnation for those who in Christ. I do not set my feet to deliberately sin, but sin happens because I am human and of a sin nature...I am forgiven and will be forgiven until my life is complete!  God promises this! I *do* make it my aim to live as Holy a life as possible, but even then...I can't even *begin* to measure up to HIS perfect holiness!

Just makes me sad for you, Giver, for I fear it is you who will have a lot of explaining to do on judgement day.  What answer will *you* give if  He were to ask you why He should let you enter His kingdom? (PST!  Remember, all our righteousness measures up to being a big ol stinking pile of filthy rags compaired to His...)

(1 John 3:8) "He who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil's work

Quote from: Giver on Tue Nov 22, 2011 - 19:03:45

No one begotten by God sin, and if one sins he or she is of the devil.  Now why would anyone take the word of someone who admits he or she deliberately commit sin?   

LOL!  Someone who values honesty and humility perhaps? Paul called himself the chief of sinners...he wrote a LOT of the NT. 
The trouble, Giver and the danger of your message is that it is completely wrapped up with a select few verses, but ignores the rest of God's word and promises of Christ Himself.

Ps. I *said* I do NOT make it my ambition to sin, so you I guess you CAN take me at my word! 

I don't think you answered my question, Giver. 

What answer would you give if God were to ask you why He should let you enter His kingdom?

Quote from: MeMyself on Tue Nov 22, 2011 - 19:15:24
I don't think you answered my question, Giver. 

What answer would you give if God were to ask you why He should let you enter His kingdom?

If Jesus asked me such a question, I would ask him if in his old age if his memory was failing.  Jesus told me that I would be one with him and then we would be one with the Father. 

The only reason I know of that God has chosen me to be with him is that I obey him. 

Quote from: Giver on Tue Nov 22, 2011 - 19:24:57

Quote from: MeMyself on Tue Nov 22, 2011 - 19:15:24
I don't think you answered my question, Giver. 

What answer would you give if God were to ask you why He should let you enter His kingdom?

If Jesus asked me such a question, I would ask him if in his old age if his memory was failing.  Jesus told me that I would be one with him and then we would be one with the Father. 

The only reason I know of that God has chosen me to be with him is that I obey him. 

Why you though?  I obey Him too...so does my gram who denies Christ...so should He let her in too?

sorry I did not read through all 7 pages, but the first thing that popped into my mind was the Corinthian church, they were doing some willfull sinning....treating the poor like lower class, getting drunk at the taking of the Lords supper, and someone son was having sex with his step mother.

Yet Paul never said they were not Christian.  He called them carnal, of the flesh. 

I like this explanation on Christians willfully sinning.

"Can a true Christian be carnal? In answering this question, let's first define the term "carnal.

Quote from: Debrah on Tue Nov 22, 2011 - 21:59:08
sorry I did not read through all 7 pages, but the first thing that popped into my mind was the Corinthian church, they were doing some willfull sinning....treating the poor like lower class, getting drunk at the taking of the Lords supper, and someone son was having sex with his step mother.

Yet Paul never said they were not Christian.  He called them carnal, of the flesh. 

I like this explanation on Christians willfully sinning.

"Can a true Christian be carnal? In answering this question, let's first define the term "carnal.

Giver I really want to be sinless like you are.  What are the steps?  Do you do as the bible says and be anxious for nothing, but everything with peititions and prayers and thanksgiving?

How exactly does a person walk in the spirit?  Do you fast often?  Do you read your bible 2-8 hours a day?  Do you speak in tongues.

If you are really sin free and are not lying, why not share how you are doing this?

Don't you want other people to go to heave to?

If you don't help us there will only be you and maybe 100 other people with you in heaven.

I am being sarcastic and real at the same time.  Seriously what is your secret?

You said you asked Jesus to give you the Holy Spirit.  What else did you do?

Is being in Christ the same thing as having the holy spirit dwell inside a person?

If a person's life is hidden in Christ does that mean they will be in heaven with Christ?

I know I am in CHrist, because the bible says you can check to see if you are in Christ or not.  Whoever believe that Jesus Christ came in the flesh is in Christ.


1 John 4:2

This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God,


Giver???   Do you believe that Jesus Christ came in the flesh?  Do you believe God the son Jesus came in the flesh?

Quote from: Ladonia on Tue Nov 22, 2011 - 12:34:56

Quote from: DaveW on Tue Nov 22, 2011 - 12:16:11
You know that even the best and most mature of christians sin (fall short, miss the mark) several times if not hundreds of times every day.That is not an excuse for being unrighteous; it is an honest etimation of how bad ofhis tithef we all truly are.

No! Don't you understand? Giver has apparantly reached a level that few others have. In his mind he sins no more. He never gets mad, never lustful, always turns the other cheek, never refuses money to the homeless person, picks up EVERY hitchhiker he sees, always contributes his tithe. You ARE giving 10 percent of your salary off the top to the Lord, right Giver?

He does so by so watering down the definition of sin that he can avoid it.

Has he EVER passed an ethonol plant? If so then he has smelled alcohol and sinned.

Which food hit the floor first this morning? If it was not the one God wanted, he sinned. (and God has an opinion on EVERYTHING)

While those are extreme positions (that I grew up with) I do not accept them now. they are extrabiblical. However, the following has biblical support and I accept it:

Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the [rhema - spoken] word of God.
What ever not done in faith is sin. 

If he did not hear God saying to do EVERY THING he does - then it is not done in faith and is sin.