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John 16:13
Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

this HS will no speak of himself
he only speaks what he hears
he is to show us things to come

Quote from: howard on Sat Jul 07, 2012 - 02:18:13

Quote from: Lively Stone on Sat Jul 07, 2012 - 01:46:55

Quote from: howard on Sat Jul 07, 2012 - 01:25:32

we read that evil cannot come into a land unless the Lord brings it

Amos 3v 6 Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid? shall there be evil in a city, and the Lord hath not done it?

You really must study before you post verses you pull up.

Amos 3 is talking about God's punishment. The 'evil' in your version is simply meaning the disaster God warned Israel He would bring upon her as He judges her. That is not evil.

its still evil, a disater or destruction or whatever God deems evil He brought it.

and its not only for Israel all man deals with evil

Disaster to those being judged by it seems evil, but it is righteous judgment---which in some translations, 'evil' is a legitimate translation of the word. but it doesn't mean that God does evil things. that is impossible for Him. so, you can just refrain from any more discussion about that.

QuoteProverbs 17:13

13 Whoso rewardeth evil for good, evil shall not depart from his house

i guess this is a disaster according to your logic

It is evil and disaster and trouble and calamity---all of what evil entails. Evil people retain and draw evil to themselves.

Quote from: Lively Stone on Sat Jul 07, 2012 - 02:20:49

Quote from: howard on Sat Jul 07, 2012 - 02:09:18

Quote from: Lively Stone on Sat Jul 07, 2012 - 02:02:50
Holy Spirit is the Spirit of Christ! This is why Jesus had to go to the Father, so His Spirit could come with His presence and do the works of Christ in His people in all the earth until He returns!


1 Corinthians 15:45
The Scriptures tell us, "The first man, Adam, became a living person.

Quote from: howard on Sat Jul 07, 2012 - 02:22:08
John 16:13
Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

this HS will no speak of himself
he only speaks what he hears
he is to show us things to come

Yes, that is right...just as Jesus said he only spoke what He heard the Father say, Holy Spirit only speaks what the Son says, and only brings glory to Him.

Quote from: Lively Stone on Sat Jul 07, 2012 - 02:23:01

Quote from: howard on Sat Jul 07, 2012 - 02:18:13

Quote from: Lively Stone on Sat Jul 07, 2012 - 01:46:55

Quote from: howard on Sat Jul 07, 2012 - 01:25:32

we read that evil cannot come into a land unless the Lord brings it

Amos 3v 6 Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid? shall there be evil in a city, and the Lord hath not done it?

You really must study before you post verses you pull up.

Amos 3 is talking about God's punishment. The 'evil' in your version is simply meaning the disaster God warned Israel He would bring upon her as He judges her. That is not evil.

its still evil, a disater or destruction or whatever God deems evil He brought it.

and its not only for Israel all man deals with evil

Disaster to those being judged by it seems evil, but it is righteous judgment---which in some translations, 'evil' is a legitimate translation of the word. but it doesn't mean that God does evil things. that is impossible for Him. so, you can just refrain from any more discussion about that.

QuoteProverbs 17:13

13 Whoso rewardeth evil for good, evil shall not depart from his house

i guess this is a disaster according to your logic

It is evil and disaster and trouble and calamity---all of what evil entails. Evil people retain and draw evil to themselves.

it is still sin

and whatever meaning you want to use it in it is still coming from God

this lets us know the Jesus trully created everything as it is written

he created all things including evil

Quote from: howard on Sat Jul 07, 2012 - 02:27:37

Quote from: Lively Stone on Sat Jul 07, 2012 - 02:20:49

Quote from: howard on Sat Jul 07, 2012 - 02:09:18

Quote from: Lively Stone on Sat Jul 07, 2012 - 02:02:50
Holy Spirit is the Spirit of Christ! This is why Jesus had to go to the Father, so His Spirit could come with His presence and do the works of Christ in His people in all the earth until He returns!


1 Corinthians 15:45
The Scriptures tell us, "The first man, Adam, became a living person.

Quote from: howard on Sat Jul 07, 2012 - 02:29:48

Quote from: Lively Stone on Sat Jul 07, 2012 - 02:23:01

Quote from: howard on Sat Jul 07, 2012 - 02:18:13

Quote from: Lively Stone on Sat Jul 07, 2012 - 01:46:55

Quote from: howard on Sat Jul 07, 2012 - 01:25:32

we read that evil cannot come into a land unless the Lord brings it

Amos 3v 6 Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid? shall there be evil in a city, and the Lord hath not done it?

You really must study before you post verses you pull up.

Amos 3 is talking about God's punishment. The 'evil' in your version is simply meaning the disaster God warned Israel He would bring upon her as He judges her. That is not evil.

its still evil, a disater or destruction or whatever God deems evil He brought it.

and its not only for Israel all man deals with evil

Disaster to those being judged by it seems evil, but it is righteous judgment---which in some translations, 'evil' is a legitimate translation of the word. but it doesn't mean that God does evil things. that is impossible for Him. so, you can just refrain from any more discussion about that.

QuoteProverbs 17:13

13 Whoso rewardeth evil for good, evil shall not depart from his house

i guess this is a disaster according to your logic

It is evil and disaster and trouble and calamity---all of what evil entails. Evil people retain and draw evil to themselves.

it is still sin

and whatever meaning you want to use it in it is still coming from God

this lets us know the Jesus trully created everything as it is written

he created all things including evil

No, it isn't sin! Sin is missing the mark of God's perfect standard. Does God miss His own mark?

Quote from: Lively Stone on Sat Jul 07, 2012 - 02:19:58
John was directed to write messages from Jesus to the churches in question. They are spiritual territories and angels are assigned to minister to them.

I think you are confused by the existence of angels, the Angel of the Lord and the Holy Spirit.

their is no confusion on my part what we have is the lack  of study on the qualification of the angels and what they are

a angel that did not follow satan is a holy spirit

we read


Hebrews 1:

7 And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire

13 But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool?

14 Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?

the angels are spirit

Matthew 25:31
When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:

the angels of the Lord are holy

Quote from: howard on Sat Jul 07, 2012 - 02:35:28

Quote from: Lively Stone on Sat Jul 07, 2012 - 02:19:58
John was directed to write messages from Jesus to the churches in question. They are spiritual territories and angels are assigned to minister to them.

I think you are confused by the existence of angels, the Angel of the Lord and the Holy Spirit.

their is no confusion on my part what we have is the lack  of study on the qualification of the angels and what they are

a angel that did not follow satan is a holy spirit

we read


Hebrews 1:

7 And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire

13 But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool?

14 Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?

the angels are spirit

Matthew 25:31
When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:

the angels of the Lord are holy

An angel that didn't follow after Satan is a holy angel! Angels are spirit beings. Satan is of one class of spirit beings called archangels. There are many other classes of spiritual beings in heaven now, including seraphim and cherubim. Humans are spirit beings, also. God is a spirit being. Jesus is also, as well as being human, and so is Holy Spirit a spiritual being.

You are confused.

Quote from: Lively Stone on Sat Jul 07, 2012 - 02:34:22

Quote from: howard on Sat Jul 07, 2012 - 02:29:48

Quote from: Lively Stone on Sat Jul 07, 2012 - 02:23:01

Quote from: howard on Sat Jul 07, 2012 - 02:18:13

Quote from: Lively Stone on Sat Jul 07, 2012 - 01:46:55

Quote from: howard on Sat Jul 07, 2012 - 01:25:32

we read that evil cannot come into a land unless the Lord brings it

Amos 3v 6 Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid? shall there be evil in a city, and the Lord hath not done it?

You really must study before you post verses you pull up.

Amos 3 is talking about God's punishment. The 'evil' in your version is simply meaning the disaster God warned Israel He would bring upon her as He judges her. That is not evil.

its still evil, a disater or destruction or whatever God deems evil He brought it.

and its not only for Israel all man deals with evil

Disaster to those being judged by it seems evil, but it is righteous judgment---which in some translations, 'evil' is a legitimate translation of the word. but it doesn't mean that God does evil things. that is impossible for Him. so, you can just refrain from any more discussion about that.

QuoteProverbs 17:13

13 Whoso rewardeth evil for good, evil shall not depart from his house

i guess this is a disaster according to your logic

It is evil and disaster and trouble and calamity---all of what evil entails. Evil people retain and draw evil to themselves.

it is still sin

and whatever meaning you want to use it in it is still coming from God

this lets us know the Jesus trully created everything as it is written

he created all things including evil

No, it isn't sin! Sin is missing the mark of God's perfect standard. Does God miss His own mark?

Genesis 6:5
And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.

Proverbs 13:21
Evil pursueth sinners: but to the righteous good shall be repayed.

Ecclesiastes 8:12
Though a sinner do evil an hundred times, and his days be prolonged, yet surely I know that it shall be well with them that fear God, which fear before him:


Ecclesiastes 9:3
This is an evil among all things that are done under the sun, that there is one event unto all: yea, also the heart of the sons of men is full of evil, and madness is in their heart while they live, and after that they go to the dead.

Ecclesiastes 12:14
For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.

Quote from: Lively Stone on Sat Jul 07, 2012 - 02:34:22

Quote from: howard on Sat Jul 07, 2012 - 02:29:48

Quote from: Lively Stone on Sat Jul 07, 2012 - 02:23:01

Quote from: howard on Sat Jul 07, 2012 - 02:18:13

Quote from: Lively Stone on Sat Jul 07, 2012 - 01:46:55

Quote from: howard on Sat Jul 07, 2012 - 01:25:32

we read that evil cannot come into a land unless the Lord brings it

Amos 3v 6 Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid? shall there be evil in a city, and the Lord hath not done it?

You really must study before you post verses you pull up.

Amos 3 is talking about God's punishment. The 'evil' in your version is simply meaning the disaster God warned Israel He would bring upon her as He judges her. That is not evil.

its still evil, a disaster or destruction or whatever God deems evil He brought it.

and its not only for Israel all man deals with evil

Disaster to those being judged by it seems evil, but it is righteous judgment---which in some translations, 'evil' is a legitimate translation of the word. but it doesn't mean that God does evil things. that is impossible for Him. so, you can just refrain from any more discussion about that.

QuoteProverbs 17:13

13 Whoso rewardeth evil for good, evil shall not depart from his house

i guess this is a disaster according to your logic

It is evil and disaster and trouble and calamity---all of what evil entails. Evil people retain and draw evil to themselves.

it is still sin

and whatever meaning you want to use it in it is still coming from God

this lets us know the Jesus truly created everything as it is written

he created all things including evil

No, it isn't sin! Sin is missing the mark of God's perfect standard. Does God miss His own mark?

God created evil and God brings evil

who is evil?

satan and those that follow him which are sinners

this has nothing to do with missing a mark or God being evil/

lets read something else

Exodus 32:14
And the LORD repented of the evil which he thought to do unto his people.

Quote from: Lively Stone on Sat Jul 07, 2012 - 02:36:44

Quote from: howard on Sat Jul 07, 2012 - 02:35:28

Quote from: Lively Stone on Sat Jul 07, 2012 - 02:19:58
John was directed to write messages from Jesus to the churches in question. They are spiritual territories and angels are assigned to minister to them.

I think you are confused by the existence of angels, the Angel of the Lord and the Holy Spirit.

their is no confusion on my part what we have is the lack  of study on the qualification of the angels and what they are

a angel that did not follow satan is a holy spirit

we read


Hebrews 1:

7 And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire

13 But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool?

14 Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?

the angels are spirit

Matthew 25:31
When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:

the angels of the Lord are holy

An angel that didn't follow after Satan in a holy angel! Angels are spirit beings. Satan is of one class of spirit beings called archangels. There are many other classes of spiritual beings in heaven now, including seraphim and cherubim. Humans are spirit beings, also. God is a spirit being. Jesus is also, as well as being human, and so is Holy Spirit a spiritual being.

You are confused.

yes this post has confused me

human being is not a spirit being
human beings are not holy

satan a cherub is still a angel
the serapim are still angels

Gabriel and Michael are holy angels who happen to be arch angels
yet still angels

Quote from: Lively Stone on Sat Jul 07, 2012 - 02:33:35

Quote from: howard on Sat Jul 07, 2012 - 02:27:37

Quote from: Lively Stone on Sat Jul 07, 2012 - 02:20:49

Quote from: howard on Sat Jul 07, 2012 - 02:09:18

Quote from: Lively Stone on Sat Jul 07, 2012 - 02:02:50
Holy Spirit is the Spirit of Christ! This is why Jesus had to go to the Father, so His Spirit could come with His presence and do the works of Christ in His people in all the earth until He returns!


1 Corinthians 15:45
The Scriptures tell us, "The first man, Adam, became a living person.

Behold, I send an Angel before thee, to keep thee in the way, and to bring thee into the place which I have prepared. Beware of him, and obey his voice, provoke him not; for he will not pardon your transgressions: for my name is in him. But if thou shalt indeed obey his voice, and do all that I speak; then I will be an enemy unto thine enemies, and an adversary unto thine adversaries.
(Exodus 23:20-23)

Is the Lord doing the talking?

Note what's being said, "I send an Angel before thee."

Remember in Exodus chapter 3 the scripture stated, "He has come down to deliver His people."
Who came down?
The angel of the Lord came down, not the Lord Himself.
Notice what else the verse says, "Beware of him, and obey his voice, he will not pardon your transgressions: for my name is in him."

Only God can pardon transgressions, not an angel.

Note this, "But if thou shalt indeed obey his voice, and do all that I speak."

Plain and simple sisters and brothers, this particular angel brings the message to men and he will speak only what the Lord tells him to speak.

Now, let's go to the book of Isaiah chapter 63 and see this a little clearer. Note who was sent and also what he is called.

In their entire affliction he was afflicted, and the angel of his presence saved them: in his love and in his pity he redeemed them; and he bare them, and carried them all the days of old. But they rebelled, and vexed his Holy Spirit: therefore he was turned to be their enemy, and he fought against them. (Isaiah 63:9-10)

This spirit was called two different names, the angel of his presence and Holy Spirit.

Remember in Exodus the 3rd chapter the angel told Moses, "Draw not nigh hither: put off thy shoes from off thy feet, for the place whereon thou standest is holy ground.

Meaning this angel is also holy or a holy spirit, and also remember that this spirit was called the angel of the Lord.

Keep these names in mind as we go through this study.

Notice what's being said, "The angel of his presence saved them." Saved whom? Israel!

when did the angel of the Lord's presence save them

In the days of old. But they rebelled, and vexed his Holy Spirit: therefore he was turned to be their enemy, and he fought against them.

Let's see what took place when this angel fought against the children of Israel

We will go to the book of Judges. PAY CLOSE ATTENTION TO WHOSE TALKING!


And an angel of the LORD came up from Gilgal to Bochim, and said, I made you to go up out of Egypt, and have brought you unto the land which I sware unto your fathers; and I said, I will never break my covenant with you. And ye shall make no league with the inhabitants of this land; ye shall throw down their altars: but ye have not obeyed my voice: why have ye done this? (Judges 2:1-2)


It's the angel that doing the talking correct? Notice what he says, "I made you to go up out of Egypt, and have brought you unto the land which I sware unto your fathers; and I said, I will never break my covenant with you: but ye have not obeyed my voice.

The angel has no covenant with Israel!

The angel is simply speaking for the Lord.

Remember in Exodus the 23rd chapter it states, "If thou shalt indeed obey his voice, whose voice?

The angel of the Lord. And do all that I speak then I will be an enemy unto thine enemies, and an adversary unto thine adversaries."

Also remember what it said in Isaiah 63rd chapter, "they rebelled, and vexed his Holy Spirit: therefore he was turned to be their enemy, and he fought against them."

Ok, Howard. It is clear you believe what you do and that you are convinced in your own mind, so I am not going to keep throwing my hat in the ring of round and round...

however, I am curious

Do you believe at all in the Holy Spirit? I thought I read that you did, but that He is not part of the God head...

If you DO believe in Him (He is mentioned BY name in the bible, so how can one deny His existence??) who is He to you?

Quote from: howard on Sat Jul 07, 2012 - 02:48:53

Quote from: Lively Stone on Sat Jul 07, 2012 - 02:34:22

Quote from: howard on Sat Jul 07, 2012 - 02:29:48

Quote from: Lively Stone on Sat Jul 07, 2012 - 02:23:01

Quote from: howard on Sat Jul 07, 2012 - 02:18:13

Quote from: Lively Stone on Sat Jul 07, 2012 - 01:46:55

Quote from: howard on Sat Jul 07, 2012 - 01:25:32

we read that evil cannot come into a land unless the Lord brings it

Amos 3v 6 Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid? shall there be evil in a city, and the Lord hath not done it?

You really must study before you post verses you pull up.

Amos 3 is talking about God's punishment. The 'evil' in your version is simply meaning the disaster God warned Israel He would bring upon her as He judges her. That is not evil.

its still evil, a disaster or destruction or whatever God deems evil He brought it.

and its not only for Israel all man deals with evil

Disaster to those being judged by it seems evil, but it is righteous judgment---which in some translations, 'evil' is a legitimate translation of the word. but it doesn't mean that God does evil things. that is impossible for Him. so, you can just refrain from any more discussion about that.

QuoteProverbs 17:13

13 Whoso rewardeth evil for good, evil shall not depart from his house

i guess this is a disaster according to your logic

It is evil and disaster and trouble and calamity---all of what evil entails. Evil people retain and draw evil to themselves.

it is still sin

and whatever meaning you want to use it in it is still coming from God

this lets us know the Jesus truly created everything as it is written

he created all things including evil

No, it isn't sin! Sin is missing the mark of God's perfect standard. Does God miss His own mark?

God created evil and God brings evil

who is evil?

satan and those that follow him which are sinners

this has nothing to do with missing a mark or God being evil/

lets read something else

Exodus 32:14
And the LORD repented of the evil which he thought to do unto his people.

Once again, God doesn't commit evil. If you cannot reconcile the fact that the word for 'evil' has different connotations and that literal evil is not found in God, then only He can help you.

The so-called 'evil' that God will send is disaster, retributive justice and judgment. That is only evil from the perspective of men. From God's perspective and those who know Him, it is righteous judgment and His perfect justice.

Quote from: howard on Sat Jul 07, 2012 - 02:52:46

Quote from: Lively Stone on Sat Jul 07, 2012 - 02:36:44

Quote from: howard on Sat Jul 07, 2012 - 02:35:28

Quote from: Lively Stone on Sat Jul 07, 2012 - 02:19:58
John was directed to write messages from Jesus to the churches in question. They are spiritual territories and angels are assigned to minister to them.

I think you are confused by the existence of angels, the Angel of the Lord and the Holy Spirit.

their is no confusion on my part what we have is the lack  of study on the qualification of the angels and what they are

a angel that did not follow satan is a holy spirit

we read


Hebrews 1:

7 And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire

13 But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool?

14 Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?

the angels are spirit

Matthew 25:31
When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:

the angels of the Lord are holy

An angel that didn't follow after Satan in a holy angel! Angels are spirit beings. Satan is of one class of spirit beings called archangels. There are many other classes of spiritual beings in heaven now, including seraphim and cherubim. Humans are spirit beings, also. God is a spirit being. Jesus is also, as well as being human, and so is Holy Spirit a spiritual being.

You are confused.

yes this post has confused me

human being is not a spirit being
human beings are not holy

satan a cherub is still a angel
the serapim are still angels

Gabriel and Michael are holy angels who happen to be arch angels
yet still angels

Yes, human beings are spirit beings.  As for holy, when we receive Jesus Christ as Saviour, our spirits are immediately rendered holy because of Holy Spirit's presence.

As for angels, yes there are many different kinds of angelic beings. They have nothing to do with this discussion.

Quote from: Lively Stone on Sat Jul 07, 2012 - 09:43:19
Once again, God doesn't commit evil. If you cannot reconcile the fact that the word for 'evil' has different connotations and that literal evil is not found in God, then only He can help you.

The so-called 'evil' that God will send is disaster, retributive justice and judgment. That is only evil from the perspective of men. From God's perspective and those who know Him, it is righteous judgment and His perfect justice.

yeah..that is VERY troublesome to me that someone who think and speak these kinds of things about God.
Sin is of and from the Devil...evil as well. The Father is perfect, holy and just.  Evil has no place there.

Quote from: howard on Sat Jul 07, 2012 - 02:56:07

Quote from: Lively Stone on Sat Jul 07, 2012 - 02:33:35

Quote from: howard on Sat Jul 07, 2012 - 02:27:37

Quote from: Lively Stone on Sat Jul 07, 2012 - 02:20:49

Quote from: howard on Sat Jul 07, 2012 - 02:09:18

Quote from: Lively Stone on Sat Jul 07, 2012 - 02:02:50
Holy Spirit is the Spirit of Christ! This is why Jesus had to go to the Father, so His Spirit could come with His presence and do the works of Christ in His people in all the earth until He returns!


1 Corinthians 15:45
The Scriptures tell us, "The first man, Adam, became a living person.

Quote from: howard on Sat Jul 07, 2012 - 07:11:18
We will go to the book of Judges. PAY CLOSE ATTENTION TO WHOSE TALKING!


And an angel of the LORD came up from Gilgal to Bochim, and said, I made you to go up out of Egypt, and have brought you unto the land which I sware unto your fathers; and I said, I will never break my covenant with you. And ye shall make no league with the inhabitants of this land; ye shall throw down their altars: but ye have not obeyed my voice: why have ye done this? (Judges 2:1-2)


It's the angel that doing the talking correct? Notice what he says, "I made you to go up out of Egypt, and have brought you unto the land which I sware unto your fathers; and I said, I will never break my covenant with you: but ye have not obeyed my voice.

The angel has no covenant with Israel!

The angel is simply speaking for the Lord.

Remember in Exodus the 23rd chapter it states, "If thou shalt indeed obey his voice, whose voice?

The angel of the Lord. And do all that I speak then I will be an enemy unto thine enemies, and an adversary unto thine adversaries."

Also remember what it said in Isaiah 63rd chapter, "they rebelled, and vexed his Holy Spirit: therefore he was turned to be their enemy, and he fought against them."

I can see by this very post which tells you plainly two things: that angels are used to speak for God and also Holy Spirit is God and as a Person, can be vexed, become an enemy and fight against people.

You need to be careful that you do not vex Holy Spirit by your denials here. The truth is plain---even in your own post, yet you choose to remain blinded to it. I am praying against that.

Quote from: howard on Thu Jul 05, 2012 - 17:26:26

Quote from: FireSword on Thu Jul 05, 2012 - 16:35:34

Quote from: Lively Stone on Thu Jul 05, 2012 - 15:07:41
It is so sad to see people who are unwilling to know truth, and in the face of it, look for some other unrelated passage to suggest that,"Maybe this is what happened." Maybes just don't cut it.

One of Satan's coups in the hearts of men is to get them to deny and reject the power of God that is resident in the lives of all believers---Holy Spirit. That rejection renders these people to be powerless and basically nominal. All learning for them is done by mental assent and fleshly understanding, because of their spurning of spiritual revelation.

They can still have power through the spirit of Christ, but missing the holy spirit they would miss a dimension of power by denying one member of the God head.

Are you making this stuff up?

Where is this written?

No I don't make this stuff up. I tend to read the bible like a novel, a book here and a book there, which gives me an advantage of finding new discoveries on a regular basis.

It is as if by magic each time I read the same book, something new appears that before escaped me. It baffles me.

The scriptures say many things concerning the spirit of Christ and that how that he that has the Son has the Father also and that those who love Jesus he promises that he will come in and sup with them and his Father also.

so we have the spirit of Christ. But Christ spoke of another, a comforter. The holy ghost also testifies in scripture and  scripture says the holy ghost speaks and says.

The power of the holy ghost and the power of Jesus name. Two different  powers.

Quote from: Lively Stone on Sat Jul 07, 2012 - 09:48:05

Quote from: howard on Sat Jul 07, 2012 - 02:56:07

Quote from: Lively Stone on Sat Jul 07, 2012 - 02:33:35

Quote from: howard on Sat Jul 07, 2012 - 02:27:37

Quote from: Lively Stone on Sat Jul 07, 2012 - 02:20:49

Quote from: howard on Sat Jul 07, 2012 - 02:09:18

Quote from: Lively Stone on Sat Jul 07, 2012 - 02:02:50
Holy Spirit is the Spirit of Christ! This is why Jesus had to go to the Father, so His Spirit could come with His presence and do the works of Christ in His people in all the earth until He returns!


1 Corinthians 15:45
The Scriptures tell us, "The first man, Adam, became a living person.

Quote from: Lively Stone on Sat Jul 07, 2012 - 09:52:10

Quote from: howard on Sat Jul 07, 2012 - 07:11:18
We will go to the book of Judges. PAY CLOSE ATTENTION TO WHOSE TALKING!


And an angel of the LORD came up from Gilgal to Bochim, and said, I made you to go up out of Egypt, and have brought you unto the land which I sware unto your fathers; and I said, I will never break my covenant with you. And ye shall make no league with the inhabitants of this land; ye shall throw down their altars: but ye have not obeyed my voice: why have ye done this? (Judges 2:1-2)


It's the angel that doing the talking correct? Notice what he says, "I made you to go up out of Egypt, and have brought you unto the land which I sware unto your fathers; and I said, I will never break my covenant with you: but ye have not obeyed my voice.

The angel has no covenant with Israel!

The angel is simply speaking for the Lord.

Remember in Exodus the 23rd chapter it states, "If thou shalt indeed obey his voice, whose voice?

The angel of the Lord. And do all that I speak then I will be an enemy unto thine enemies, and an adversary unto thine adversaries."

Also remember what it said in Isaiah 63rd chapter, "they rebelled, and vexed his Holy Spirit: therefore he was turned to be their enemy, and he fought against them."

I can see by this very post which tells you plainly two things: that angels are used to speak for God and also Holy Spirit is God and as a Person, can be vexed, become an enemy and fight against people.

You need to be careful that you do not vex Holy Spirit by your denials here. The truth is plain---even in your own post, yet you choose to remain blinded to it. I am praying against that.

I don't deny the HS

He exist as a HS and not as God the HS

Quote from: FireSword on Sun Jul 08, 2012 - 17:23:46

Quote from: howard on Thu Jul 05, 2012 - 17:26:26

Quote from: FireSword on Thu Jul 05, 2012 - 16:35:34

Quote from: Lively Stone on Thu Jul 05, 2012 - 15:07:41
It is so sad to see people who are unwilling to know truth, and in the face of it, look for some other unrelated passage to suggest that,"Maybe this is what happened." Maybes just don't cut it.

One of Satan's coups in the hearts of men is to get them to deny and reject the power of God that is resident in the lives of all believers---Holy Spirit. That rejection renders these people to be powerless and basically nominal. All learning for them is done by mental assent and fleshly understanding, because of their spurning of spiritual revelation.

They can still have power through the spirit of Christ, but missing the holy spirit they would miss a dimension of power by denying one member of the God head.

Are you making this stuff up?

Where is this written?

No I don't make this stuff up. I tend to read the bible like a novel, a book here and a book there, which gives me an advantage of finding new discoveries on a regular basis.

It is as if by magic each time I read the same book, something new appears that before escaped me. It baffles me.

The scriptures say many things concerning the spirit of Christ and that how that he that has the Son has the Father also and that those who love Jesus he promises that he will come in and sup with them and his Father also.

so we have the spirit of Christ. But Christ spoke of another, a comforter. The holy ghost also testifies in scripture and  scripture says the holy ghost speaks and says.

The power of the holy ghost and the power of Jesus name. Two different  powers.

I will take you for your word.

Is the HS God and if so show me

Quote from: Lively Stone on Sat Jul 07, 2012 - 02:33:35

Quote from: howard on Sat Jul 07, 2012 - 02:27:37

Quote from: Lively Stone on Sat Jul 07, 2012 - 02:20:49

Quote from: howard on Sat Jul 07, 2012 - 02:09:18

Quote from: Lively Stone on Sat Jul 07, 2012 - 02:02:50
Holy Spirit is the Spirit of Christ! This is why Jesus had to go to the Father, so His Spirit could come with His presence and do the works of Christ in His people in all the earth until He returns!


1 Corinthians 15:45
The Scriptures tell us, "The first man, Adam, became a living person.

The word trinity is not found in God word.why did the RCC add to Gods's word

Revelation 22:18-19 (KJV)
For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:

[19] And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

The word GodHead is in God's word
Why has the Christian church ignored it

Quote from: MeMyself on Sat Jul 07, 2012 - 09:46:32

Quote from: Lively Stone on Sat Jul 07, 2012 - 09:43:19
Once again, God doesn't commit evil. If you cannot reconcile the fact that the word for 'evil' has different connotations and that literal evil is not found in God, then only He can help you.

The so-called 'evil' that God will send is disaster, retributive justice and judgment. That is only evil from the perspective of men. From God's perspective and those who know Him, it is righteous judgment and His perfect justice.

yeah..that is VERY troublesome to me that someone who think and speak these kinds of things about God.
Sin is of and from the Devil...evil as well. The Father is perfect, holy and just.  Evil has no place there.

Sin is from the devil
Who created the devil?
Who controls the devil?

Who is calling the shots and telling Satan what to do?

God
God sends evil like he said he does.

It would do us all well if we knew how God operates?

Exodus 32:14 (KJV)
And the Lord repented of the evil which he thought to do unto his people.

This don't need interpretation or put into some kinda context

It means what it says

Jesus sit on a throne
The Father sits on a throne

Where does God the Holy Ghost sits?

Do he have a throne?

Those who overcome will get to sit on thrones.

There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judaea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the course of Abia: and his wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elisabeth. (Luke 1:5)
Let's see who the messenger is.

And there appeared unto him an angel of the Lord standing on the right side of the altar of incense. And when Zacharias saw him, he was troubled, and fear fell upon him. But the angel said unto him, Fear not, Zacharias: for thy prayer is heard; and thy wife Elisabeth shall bear thee a son, and thou shalt call his name John. (Luke 1:11-13)

We will see this angel is called the angel of the Lord and he also says he stands in the presence of God, or in other words, the angel of His presence just as the Old Book states. Now, let's see what this angel's name is that brings the message.

Gabriel is not God

Gabreil is a Holy Spirit

Gabriel fits the role as the Comfoter

And Zacharias said unto the angel, "Whereby shall I know this? for I am an old man, and my wife well stricken in years.

Notice we are reading God's words and we are not making up words and doctrine

Show me God the HS in the presence or throne room of God?

We read where Gabriel is in the presence of God
Let's red the chain of command again

Revelation 1:1 (KJV)
The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

We have the revelation of Jesus who is God
Which God the Father gave to Jesus
Who Jesus sent and signified it by his angel

We now know who the angel is

Gabrel

Notice who was left out
God the Holy Spirit