Christian Forums

Quote from: winsome on Tue Nov 12, 2013 - 08:49:08
Day one of the papacy was not 754.

I know that; I was simply interpreting McLees' words like this:

Quote from: mclees8 on Mon Nov 11, 2013 - 16:20:08
... the whole big show from day one [that] the papacy put on Royal robes and ruled as religious political monarchs.

That wasn't day 1 of the papacy, but it certainly marked the beginning of a major change in the papacy--one that was not entirely good.

Quote from: epiphanius on Tue Nov 12, 2013 - 09:25:04

Quote from: winsome on Tue Nov 12, 2013 - 08:49:08
Day one of the papacy was not 754.

I know that; I was simply interpreting McLees' words like this:

Quote from: mclees8 on Mon Nov 11, 2013 - 16:20:08
... the whole big show from day one [that] the papacy put on Royal robes and ruled as religious political monarchs.

That wasn't day 1 of the papacy, but it certainly marked the beginning of a major change in the papacy--one that was not entirely good.

Perhaps we should not waste speculating on what mclees might have meant and he could spend a little time learning to phrase his posts coherently.

Or better still, perhaps I should waste no time responding to his posts. 

Quote from: winsome on Tue Nov 12, 2013 - 09:42:47

Quote from: epiphanius on Tue Nov 12, 2013 - 09:25:04

Quote from: winsome on Tue Nov 12, 2013 - 08:49:08
Day one of the papacy was not 754.

I know that; I was simply interpreting McLees' words like this:

Quote from: mclees8 on Mon Nov 11, 2013 - 16:20:08
... the whole big show from day one [that] the papacy put on Royal robes and ruled as religious political monarchs.

That wasn't day 1 of the papacy, but it certainly marked the beginning of a major change in the papacy--one that was not entirely good.

Perhaps we should not waste speculating on what mclees might have meant and he could spend a little time learning to phrase his posts coherently.

Or better still, perhaps I should waste no time responding to his posts. 

According to mclees' words in other posts, day one of the Papacy occurred in the year 500.

Quote from: mclees8 on Mon Nov 11, 2013 - 16:20:08

Quote from: Paulus on Mon Nov 11, 2013 - 15:54:40

Quote from: mclees8 on Mon Nov 11, 2013 - 15:08:15

Quote from: Paulus on Mon Nov 11, 2013 - 14:57:10

Quote from: Paulus on Mon Nov 11, 2013 - 14:54:33

Quote from: mclees8 on Mon Nov 11, 2013 - 14:09:14

Quote from: Paulus on Mon Nov 11, 2013 - 12:37:09

Quote from: mclees8 on Mon Nov 11, 2013 - 08:07:35

Quote from: Paulus on Sun Nov 10, 2013 - 11:46:07

Quote from: mclees8 on Sun Nov 10, 2013 - 07:16:07

Quote from: Paulus on Sat Nov 09, 2013 - 11:40:30

Quote from: mclees8 on Sat Nov 09, 2013 - 09:34:35

Quote from: Paulus on Sat Nov 09, 2013 - 02:38:33

Quote from: HRoberson on Wed Nov 06, 2013 - 22:12:21

Quote from: Catholica on Wed Nov 06, 2013 - 15:42:36
Some Catholics have felt scandalized by certain reports of what Pope Francis has said, or done.  It is my opinion that much of this is caused by media ignorance of the Catholic faith and/or bias against the Catholic Church and her teachings (and bias for a liberal agenda).  However there is a deeper truth behind it all, and that is that no matter how bad you perceive things to be, it is not at the end of the day about the Pope, but about Jesus and the Church, the means of salvation He created for you. 

I found this talk worth the time to listen to, and I think that it could help other Catholics like me who might be feeling at least somewhat on edge about what Pope Francis is doing.

http://www.audiosancto.org/sermon/20131020-Christ-is-the-Point.html

What do you find disturbing about Francis?

Pope Francis disturbs me because God is using him to disturb me and to show me how far I am from living the teachings of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ .

How do you know that God is using him to disturb you. About what? Until we have developed a clear idea of what it means to be separate from the world you cannot even know what Jesus taught. How then can a teacher who is in the world and all that is of it teach you then about our Savior. If Francis knew he would rent his clothes and leave the Vatican.

Oh dear ! You don't change do you .

Can you not see goodness where there is goodness ?

Yes I can. Tell me will all people who do good things go to heaven? Is it really just about being good?

He who humbles himself shall be exalted and he who exalts be abased.

Do you think Pope Francis is a good man ?
[/quote

If you ask me does he do good things and thinks himself a good man who sincerely believes he I good and serves God. I do not know Him personally enough to make a judgment, but I could assume so. This si not about him personally being good in mans eyes but is he truly serving God  or is he serving God from mans carnal concepts.

I am pleased that you assume that Pope Francis does good things and sincerely believes that he serves God .

This does no mean I except Him for the position he thinks he serves. it is still false and worldly therefore he is not able to truly teach of the savior from his exalted position of men.

Does not Pope Francis , by word and deed , truly teach of our Lord and Saviour , Jesus Christ ?

He can teach about Christ but he stands on a worldly platform. Therefore the papacy says it of Christ but its heart is in the world and all that is fleshly and carnal. He is on a religious political platform which is antichrist. It is for this reason that it is the  harlot

Please give examples of how Pope Francis' heart is in the world , and is fleshly and carnal .

Guess you just are never going to  get it. This has never been about Francis being worldly.  but the whole Papal thing. It the whole big show from day one the papacy put on Royal robes and ruled as religious political monarchs. I never said one thing against him personally as being a good man. But as long as sits as popes do then he is worldly by virtue of the whole order.

So you say that this has never been about Pope Francis , but about the whole Papal thing . So that must include Pope Francis .

Again I ask you in which ways is Pope Francis worldly ?

Quote from: Catholica on Tue Nov 12, 2013 - 11:10:30

Quote from: winsome on Tue Nov 12, 2013 - 09:42:47
Perhaps we should not waste speculating on what mclees might have meant and he could spend a little time learning to phrase his posts coherently.

Or better still, perhaps I should waste no time responding to his posts. 

According to mclees' words in other posts, day one of the Papacy occurred in the year 500.

Brethren,

You men seem to be mature enough, that you should realize that the point of any dialogue or outreach with non-Catholics is never to "win the argument."  The point is to recognize Christ in them and help them to recognize Christ in you, and by so doing to break down the barriers of suspicion and animosity that keep us separated.

We can really do something to build up God's kingdom here, or we can engage in "foolish and ignorant debates," and accomplish nothing.

Quote from: Paulus on Tue Nov 12, 2013 - 11:52:03

Quote from: mclees8 on Mon Nov 11, 2013 - 16:20:08

Quote from: Paulus on Mon Nov 11, 2013 - 15:54:40

Quote from: mclees8 on Mon Nov 11, 2013 - 15:08:15

Quote from: Paulus on Mon Nov 11, 2013 - 14:57:10

Quote from: Paulus on Mon Nov 11, 2013 - 14:54:33

Quote from: mclees8 on Mon Nov 11, 2013 - 14:09:14

Quote from: Paulus on Mon Nov 11, 2013 - 12:37:09

Quote from: mclees8 on Mon Nov 11, 2013 - 08:07:35

Quote from: Paulus on Sun Nov 10, 2013 - 11:46:07

Quote from: mclees8 on Sun Nov 10, 2013 - 07:16:07

Quote from: Paulus on Sat Nov 09, 2013 - 11:40:30

Quote from: mclees8 on Sat Nov 09, 2013 - 09:34:35

Quote from: Paulus on Sat Nov 09, 2013 - 02:38:33

Quote from: HRoberson on Wed Nov 06, 2013 - 22:12:21

Quote from: Catholica on Wed Nov 06, 2013 - 15:42:36
Some Catholics have felt scandalized by certain reports of what Pope Francis has said, or done.  It is my opinion that much of this is caused by media ignorance of the Catholic faith and/or bias against the Catholic Church and her teachings (and bias for a liberal agenda).  However there is a deeper truth behind it all, and that is that no matter how bad you perceive things to be, it is not at the end of the day about the Pope, but about Jesus and the Church, the means of salvation He created for you. 

I found this talk worth the time to listen to, and I think that it could help other Catholics like me who might be feeling at least somewhat on edge about what Pope Francis is doing.

http://www.audiosancto.org/sermon/20131020-Christ-is-the-Point.html

What do you find disturbing about Francis?

Pope Francis disturbs me because God is using him to disturb me and to show me how far I am from living the teachings of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ .

How do you know that God is using him to disturb you. About what? Until we have developed a clear idea of what it means to be separate from the world you cannot even know what Jesus taught. How then can a teacher who is in the world and all that is of it teach you then about our Savior. If Francis knew he would rent his clothes and leave the Vatican.

Oh dear ! You don't change do you .

Can you not see goodness where there is goodness ?

Yes I can. Tell me will all people who do good things go to heaven? Is it really just about being good?

He who humbles himself shall be exalted and he who exalts be abased.

Do you think Pope Francis is a good man ?
[/quote

If you ask me does he do good things and thinks himself a good man who sincerely believes he I good and serves God. I do not know Him personally enough to make a judgment, but I could assume so. This si not about him personally being good in mans eyes but is he truly serving God  or is he serving God from mans carnal concepts.

I am pleased that you assume that Pope Francis does good things and sincerely believes that he serves God .

This does no mean I except Him for the position he thinks he serves. it is still false and worldly therefore he is not able to truly teach of the savior from his exalted position of men.

Does not Pope Francis , by word and deed , truly teach of our Lord and Saviour , Jesus Christ ?

He can teach about Christ but he stands on a worldly platform. Therefore the papacy says it of Christ but its heart is in the world and all that is fleshly and carnal. He is on a religious political platform which is antichrist. It is for this reason that it is the  harlot

Please give examples of how Pope Francis' heart is in the world , and is fleshly and carnal .

Guess you just are never going to  get it. This has never been about Francis being worldly.  but the whole Papal thing. It the whole big show from day one the papacy put on Royal robes and ruled as religious political monarchs. I never said one thing against him personally as being a good man. But as long as sits as popes do then he is worldly by virtue of the whole order.

So you say that this has never been about Pope Francis , but about the whole Papal thing . So that must include Pope Francis .

Again I ask you in which ways is Pope Francis worldly ?

And again I say he is worldly by virtue of the papal order. Perhaps you should ask Why is the papacy worldly? However it has been the subject of most our posts.

Quote from: mclees8 on Fri Nov 15, 2013 - 08:49:54

Quote from: Paulus on Tue Nov 12, 2013 - 11:52:03

Quote from: mclees8 on Mon Nov 11, 2013 - 16:20:08

Quote from: Paulus on Mon Nov 11, 2013 - 15:54:40

Quote from: mclees8 on Mon Nov 11, 2013 - 15:08:15

Quote from: Paulus on Mon Nov 11, 2013 - 14:57:10

Quote from: Paulus on Mon Nov 11, 2013 - 14:54:33

Quote from: mclees8 on Mon Nov 11, 2013 - 14:09:14

Quote from: Paulus on Mon Nov 11, 2013 - 12:37:09

Quote from: mclees8 on Mon Nov 11, 2013 - 08:07:35

Quote from: Paulus on Sun Nov 10, 2013 - 11:46:07

Quote from: mclees8 on Sun Nov 10, 2013 - 07:16:07

Quote from: Paulus on Sat Nov 09, 2013 - 11:40:30

Quote from: mclees8 on Sat Nov 09, 2013 - 09:34:35

Quote from: Paulus on Sat Nov 09, 2013 - 02:38:33

Quote from: HRoberson on Wed Nov 06, 2013 - 22:12:21

Quote from: Catholica on Wed Nov 06, 2013 - 15:42:36
Some Catholics have felt scandalized by certain reports of what Pope Francis has said, or done.  It is my opinion that much of this is caused by media ignorance of the Catholic faith and/or bias against the Catholic Church and her teachings (and bias for a liberal agenda).  However there is a deeper truth behind it all, and that is that no matter how bad you perceive things to be, it is not at the end of the day about the Pope, but about Jesus and the Church, the means of salvation He created for you. 

I found this talk worth the time to listen to, and I think that it could help other Catholics like me who might be feeling at least somewhat on edge about what Pope Francis is doing.

http://www.audiosancto.org/sermon/20131020-Christ-is-the-Point.html

What do you find disturbing about Francis?

Pope Francis disturbs me because God is using him to disturb me and to show me how far I am from living the teachings of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ .

How do you know that God is using him to disturb you. About what? Until we have developed a clear idea of what it means to be separate from the world you cannot even know what Jesus taught. How then can a teacher who is in the world and all that is of it teach you then about our Savior. If Francis knew he would rent his clothes and leave the Vatican.

Oh dear ! You don't change do you .

Can you not see goodness where there is goodness ?

Yes I can. Tell me will all people who do good things go to heaven? Is it really just about being good?

He who humbles himself shall be exalted and he who exalts be abased.

Do you think Pope Francis is a good man ?
[/quote

If you ask me does he do good things and thinks himself a good man who sincerely believes he I good and serves God. I do not know Him personally enough to make a judgment, but I could assume so. This si not about him personally being good in mans eyes but is he truly serving God  or is he serving God from mans carnal concepts.

I am pleased that you assume that Pope Francis does good things and sincerely believes that he serves God .

This does no mean I except Him for the position he thinks he serves. it is still false and worldly therefore he is not able to truly teach of the savior from his exalted position of men.

Does not Pope Francis , by word and deed , truly teach of our Lord and Saviour , Jesus Christ ?

He can teach about Christ but he stands on a worldly platform. Therefore the papacy says it of Christ but its heart is in the world and all that is fleshly and carnal. He is on a religious political platform which is antichrist. It is for this reason that it is the  harlot

Please give examples of how Pope Francis' heart is in the world , and is fleshly and carnal .

Guess you just are never going to  get it. This has never been about Francis being worldly.  but the whole Papal thing. It the whole big show from day one the papacy put on Royal robes and ruled as religious political monarchs. I never said one thing against him personally as being a good man. But as long as sits as popes do then he is worldly by virtue of the whole order.

So you say that this has never been about Pope Francis , but about the whole Papal thing . So that must include Pope Francis .

Again I ask you in which ways is Pope Francis worldly ?

And again I say he is worldly by virtue of the papal order. Perhaps you should ask Why is the papacy worldly? However it has been the subject of most our posts.

You say that Pope Francis is worldly by virtue of the papal order .

What is "the papal order" you refer to ? And in which ways does it make Pope Francis wordly ? Can you please give some examples of how Pope Francis has been worldly since he became Bishop of Rome ?

Quote from: Paulus on Fri Nov 15, 2013 - 11:49:07

Quote from: mclees8 on Fri Nov 15, 2013 - 08:49:54

Quote from: Paulus on Tue Nov 12, 2013 - 11:52:03

Quote from: mclees8 on Mon Nov 11, 2013 - 16:20:08

Quote from: Paulus on Mon Nov 11, 2013 - 15:54:40

Quote from: mclees8 on Mon Nov 11, 2013 - 15:08:15

Quote from: Paulus on Mon Nov 11, 2013 - 14:57:10

Quote from: Paulus on Mon Nov 11, 2013 - 14:54:33

Quote from: mclees8 on Mon Nov 11, 2013 - 14:09:14

Quote from: Paulus on Mon Nov 11, 2013 - 12:37:09

Quote from: mclees8 on Mon Nov 11, 2013 - 08:07:35

Quote from: Paulus on Sun Nov 10, 2013 - 11:46:07

Quote from: mclees8 on Sun Nov 10, 2013 - 07:16:07

Quote from: Paulus on Sat Nov 09, 2013 - 11:40:30

Quote from: mclees8 on Sat Nov 09, 2013 - 09:34:35

Quote from: Paulus on Sat Nov 09, 2013 - 02:38:33

Quote from: HRoberson on Wed Nov 06, 2013 - 22:12:21

Quote from: Catholica on Wed Nov 06, 2013 - 15:42:36
Some Catholics have felt scandalized by certain reports of what Pope Francis has said, or done.  It is my opinion that much of this is caused by media ignorance of the Catholic faith and/or bias against the Catholic Church and her teachings (and bias for a liberal agenda).  However there is a deeper truth behind it all, and that is that no matter how bad you perceive things to be, it is not at the end of the day about the Pope, but about Jesus and the Church, the means of salvation He created for you. 

I found this talk worth the time to listen to, and I think that it could help other Catholics like me who might be feeling at least somewhat on edge about what Pope Francis is doing.

http://www.audiosancto.org/sermon/20131020-Christ-is-the-Point.html

What do you find disturbing about Francis?

Pope Francis disturbs me because God is using him to disturb me and to show me how far I am from living the teachings of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ .

How do you know that God is using him to disturb you. About what? Until we have developed a clear idea of what it means to be separate from the world you cannot even know what Jesus taught. How then can a teacher who is in the world and all that is of it teach you then about our Savior. If Francis knew he would rent his clothes and leave the Vatican.

Oh dear ! You don't change do you .

Can you not see goodness where there is goodness ?

Yes I can. Tell me will all people who do good things go to heaven? Is it really just about being good?

He who humbles himself shall be exalted and he who exalts be abased.

Do you think Pope Francis is a good man ?
[/quote

If you ask me does he do good things and thinks himself a good man who sincerely believes he I good and serves God. I do not know Him personally enough to make a judgment, but I could assume so. This si not about him personally being good in mans eyes but is he truly serving God  or is he serving God from mans carnal concepts.

I am pleased that you assume that Pope Francis does good things and sincerely believes that he serves God .

This does no mean I except Him for the position he thinks he serves. it is still false and worldly therefore he is not able to truly teach of the savior from his exalted position of men.

Does not Pope Francis , by word and deed , truly teach of our Lord and Saviour , Jesus Christ ?

He can teach about Christ but he stands on a worldly platform. Therefore the papacy says it of Christ but its heart is in the world and all that is fleshly and carnal. He is on a religious political platform which is antichrist. It is for this reason that it is the  harlot

Please give examples of how Pope Francis' heart is in the world , and is fleshly and carnal .

Guess you just are never going to  get it. This has never been about Francis being worldly.  but the whole Papal thing. It the whole big show from day one the papacy put on Royal robes and ruled as religious political monarchs. I never said one thing against him personally as being a good man. But as long as sits as popes do then he is worldly by virtue of the whole order.

So you say that this has never been about Pope Francis , but about the whole Papal thing . So that must include Pope Francis .

Again I ask you in which ways is Pope Francis worldly ?

And again I say he is worldly by virtue of the papal order. Perhaps you should ask Why is the papacy worldly? However it has been the subject of most our posts.

You say that Pope Francis is worldly by virtue of the papal order .

What is "the papal order" you refer to ? And in which ways does it make Pope Francis wordly ? Can you please give some examples of how Pope Francis has been worldly since he became Bishop of Rome ?

Do you remember reading this

Guess you just are never going to  get it. This has never been about Francis being worldly.  but the whole Papal thing. It the whole big show from day one the papacy put on Royal robes and ruled as religious political monarchs. I never said one thing against him personally as being a good man. But as long as sits as popes do then he is worldly by virtue of the whole order.

This is the answer I gave you already. If you don't understand why this is of the world than there is nothing more I can say. The problem is with your understanding what worldly is

This is the sad state of the church that has no idea what the Bible teaches us about the world and being separated from it, yet is right there in scripture but goes totally ignored let alone taught to the congregation. If I asked you what Babylon was I doubt you could tell me because they never taught you what it really is. Babylon is everything the world is and consists of and what we as believers are no to be a part of. Babylon  religious political and monitary systems. it is all that is outward, it is lust for power and position, recognition and that desires God upon the earth which is popes siting on a worldly throne claiming a false authority of Christ. It is lust riches and all that is corrupt   I think for the most part the church has become so worldly that it does not even recognize what we are not to put any faith in. The danger of this is the church ( which for you is the Vatican and the papacy) which is already in bed with the world and all that Babylon is sleeping with  antichrist will beguile the believers. You read REV 17 and 18 with zero understanding but it tells you all that Babylon  consists of and totally ignoring  its call to come out of it. There fore in that day there will be no excuse.

No one takes the word of God seriously and guys like me are seen as  fanatics so your religion is worthless being that you have no faith that word of God is true and will be your very indictment.

Quote from: mclees8 on Sun Nov 17, 2013 - 17:09:19

Quote from: Paulus on Fri Nov 15, 2013 - 11:49:07

Quote from: mclees8 on Fri Nov 15, 2013 - 08:49:54

Quote from: Paulus on Tue Nov 12, 2013 - 11:52:03

Quote from: mclees8 on Mon Nov 11, 2013 - 16:20:08

Quote from: Paulus on Mon Nov 11, 2013 - 15:54:40

Quote from: mclees8 on Mon Nov 11, 2013 - 15:08:15

Quote from: Paulus on Mon Nov 11, 2013 - 14:57:10

Quote from: Paulus on Mon Nov 11, 2013 - 14:54:33

Quote from: mclees8 on Mon Nov 11, 2013 - 14:09:14

Quote from: Paulus on Mon Nov 11, 2013 - 12:37:09

Quote from: mclees8 on Mon Nov 11, 2013 - 08:07:35

Quote from: Paulus on Sun Nov 10, 2013 - 11:46:07

Quote from: mclees8 on Sun Nov 10, 2013 - 07:16:07

Quote from: Paulus on Sat Nov 09, 2013 - 11:40:30

Quote from: mclees8 on Sat Nov 09, 2013 - 09:34:35

Quote from: Paulus on Sat Nov 09, 2013 - 02:38:33

Quote from: HRoberson on Wed Nov 06, 2013 - 22:12:21

Quote from: Catholica on Wed Nov 06, 2013 - 15:42:36
Some Catholics have felt scandalized by certain reports of what Pope Francis has said, or done.  It is my opinion that much of this is caused by media ignorance of the Catholic faith and/or bias against the Catholic Church and her teachings (and bias for a liberal agenda).  However there is a deeper truth behind it all, and that is that no matter how bad you perceive things to be, it is not at the end of the day about the Pope, but about Jesus and the Church, the means of salvation He created for you. 

I found this talk worth the time to listen to, and I think that it could help other Catholics like me who might be feeling at least somewhat on edge about what Pope Francis is doing.

http://www.audiosancto.org/sermon/20131020-Christ-is-the-Point.html

What do you find disturbing about Francis?

Pope Francis disturbs me because God is using him to disturb me and to show me how far I am from living the teachings of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ .

How do you know that God is using him to disturb you. About what? Until we have developed a clear idea of what it means to be separate from the world you cannot even know what Jesus taught. How then can a teacher who is in the world and all that is of it teach you then about our Savior. If Francis knew he would rent his clothes and leave the Vatican.

Oh dear ! You don't change do you .

Can you not see goodness where there is goodness ?

Yes I can. Tell me will all people who do good things go to heaven? Is it really just about being good?

He who humbles himself shall be exalted and he who exalts be abased.

Do you think Pope Francis is a good man ?
[/quote

If you ask me does he do good things and thinks himself a good man who sincerely believes he I good and serves God. I do not know Him personally enough to make a judgment, but I could assume so. This si not about him personally being good in mans eyes but is he truly serving God  or is he serving God from mans carnal concepts.

I am pleased that you assume that Pope Francis does good things and sincerely believes that he serves God .

This does no mean I except Him for the position he thinks he serves. it is still false and worldly therefore he is not able to truly teach of the savior from his exalted position of men.

Does not Pope Francis , by word and deed , truly teach of our Lord and Saviour , Jesus Christ ?

He can teach about Christ but he stands on a worldly platform. Therefore the papacy says it of Christ but its heart is in the world and all that is fleshly and carnal. He is on a religious political platform which is antichrist. It is for this reason that it is the  harlot

Please give examples of how Pope Francis' heart is in the world , and is fleshly and carnal .

Guess you just are never going to  get it. This has never been about Francis being worldly.  but the whole Papal thing. It the whole big show from day one the papacy put on Royal robes and ruled as religious political monarchs. I never said one thing against him personally as being a good man. But as long as sits as popes do then he is worldly by virtue of the whole order.

So you say that this has never been about Pope Francis , but about the whole Papal thing . So that must include Pope Francis .

Again I ask you in which ways is Pope Francis worldly ?

And again I say he is worldly by virtue of the papal order. Perhaps you should ask Why is the papacy worldly? However it has been the subject of most our posts.

You say that Pope Francis is worldly by virtue of the papal order .

What is "the papal order" you refer to ? And in which ways does it make Pope Francis wordly ? Can you please give some examples of how Pope Francis has been worldly since he became Bishop of Rome ?

Do you remember reading this

Guess you just are never going to  get it. This has never been about Francis being worldly.  but the whole Papal thing. It the whole big show from day one the papacy put on Royal robes and ruled as religious political monarchs. I never said one thing against him personally as being a good man. But as long as sits as popes do then he is worldly by virtue of the whole order.

This is the answer I gave you already. If you don't understand why this is of the world than there is nothing more I can say. The problem is with your understanding what worldly is

But what you refer to as "the whole papal" must involve Pope Francis more than anyone . He is the pope after all . Surely you haven't missed that fact .

So in which ways is Pope Francis wordly ?

Quote from: Paulus on Mon Nov 18, 2013 - 02:11:43

Quote from: mclees8 on Sun Nov 17, 2013 - 17:09:19

Quote from: Paulus on Fri Nov 15, 2013 - 11:49:07

Quote from: mclees8 on Fri Nov 15, 2013 - 08:49:54

Quote from: Paulus on Tue Nov 12, 2013 - 11:52:03

Quote from: mclees8 on Mon Nov 11, 2013 - 16:20:08

Quote from: Paulus on Mon Nov 11, 2013 - 15:54:40

Quote from: mclees8 on Mon Nov 11, 2013 - 15:08:15

Quote from: Paulus on Mon Nov 11, 2013 - 14:57:10

Quote from: Paulus on Mon Nov 11, 2013 - 14:54:33

Quote from: mclees8 on Mon Nov 11, 2013 - 14:09:14

Quote from: Paulus on Mon Nov 11, 2013 - 12:37:09

Quote from: mclees8 on Mon Nov 11, 2013 - 08:07:35

Quote from: Paulus on Sun Nov 10, 2013 - 11:46:07

Quote from: mclees8 on Sun Nov 10, 2013 - 07:16:07

Quote from: Paulus on Sat Nov 09, 2013 - 11:40:30

Quote from: mclees8 on Sat Nov 09, 2013 - 09:34:35

Quote from: Paulus on Sat Nov 09, 2013 - 02:38:33

Quote from: HRoberson on Wed Nov 06, 2013 - 22:12:21

Quote from: Catholica on Wed Nov 06, 2013 - 15:42:36
Some Catholics have felt scandalized by certain reports of what Pope Francis has said, or done.  It is my opinion that much of this is caused by media ignorance of the Catholic faith and/or bias against the Catholic Church and her teachings (and bias for a liberal agenda).  However there is a deeper truth behind it all, and that is that no matter how bad you perceive things to be, it is not at the end of the day about the Pope, but about Jesus and the Church, the means of salvation He created for you. 

I found this talk worth the time to listen to, and I think that it could help other Catholics like me who might be feeling at least somewhat on edge about what Pope Francis is doing.

http://www.audiosancto.org/sermon/20131020-Christ-is-the-Point.html

What do you find disturbing about Francis?

Pope Francis disturbs me because God is using him to disturb me and to show me how far I am from living the teachings of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ .

How do you know that God is using him to disturb you. About what? Until we have developed a clear idea of what it means to be separate from the world you cannot even know what Jesus taught. How then can a teacher who is in the world and all that is of it teach you then about our Savior. If Francis knew he would rent his clothes and leave the Vatican.

Oh dear ! You don't change do you .

Can you not see goodness where there is goodness ?

Yes I can. Tell me will all people who do good things go to heaven? Is it really just about being good?

He who humbles himself shall be exalted and he who exalts be abased.

Do you think Pope Francis is a good man ?
[/quote

If you ask me does he do good things and thinks himself a good man who sincerely believes he I good and serves God. I do not know Him personally enough to make a judgment, but I could assume so. This si not about him personally being good in mans eyes but is he truly serving God  or is he serving God from mans carnal concepts.

I am pleased that you assume that Pope Francis does good things and sincerely believes that he serves God .

This does no mean I except Him for the position he thinks he serves. it is still false and worldly therefore he is not able to truly teach of the savior from his exalted position of men.

Does not Pope Francis , by word and deed , truly teach of our Lord and Saviour , Jesus Christ ?

He can teach about Christ but he stands on a worldly platform. Therefore the papacy says it of Christ but its heart is in the world and all that is fleshly and carnal. He is on a religious political platform which is antichrist. It is for this reason that it is the  harlot

Please give examples of how Pope Francis' heart is in the world , and is fleshly and carnal .

Guess you just are never going to  get it. This has never been about Francis being worldly.  but the whole Papal thing. It the whole big show from day one the papacy put on Royal robes and ruled as religious political monarchs. I never said one thing against him personally as being a good man. But as long as sits as popes do then he is worldly by virtue of the whole order.

So you say that this has never been about Pope Francis , but about the whole Papal thing . So that must include Pope Francis .

Again I ask you in which ways is Pope Francis worldly ?

And again I say he is worldly by virtue of the papal order. Perhaps you should ask Why is the papacy worldly? However it has been the subject of most our posts.

You say that Pope Francis is worldly by virtue of the papal order .

What is "the papal order" you refer to ? And in which ways does it make Pope Francis wordly ? Can you please give some examples of how Pope Francis has been worldly since he became Bishop of Rome ?

Do you remember reading this

Guess you just are never going to  get it. This has never been about Francis being worldly.  but the whole Papal thing. It the whole big show from day one the papacy put on Royal robes and ruled as religious political monarchs. I never said one thing against him personally as being a good man. But as long as sits as popes do then he is worldly by virtue of the whole order.

This is the answer I gave you already. If you don't understand why this is of the world than there is nothing more I can say. The problem is with your understanding what worldly is

But what you refer to as "the whole papal" must involve Pope Francis more than anyone . He is the pope after all . Surely you haven't missed that fact .

So in which ways is Pope Francis wordly ?

Goodbye Paulus. Have a blessed day.

Quote from: mclees8 on Mon Nov 18, 2013 - 08:42:06

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Quote from: Catholica on Wed Nov 06, 2013 - 15:42:36
Some Catholics have felt scandalized by certain reports of what Pope Francis has said, or done.  It is my opinion that much of this is caused by media ignorance of the Catholic faith and/or bias against the Catholic Church and her teachings (and bias for a liberal agenda).  However there is a deeper truth behind it all, and that is that no matter how bad you perceive things to be, it is not at the end of the day about the Pope, but about Jesus and the Church, the means of salvation He created for you. 

I found this talk worth the time to listen to, and I think that it could help other Catholics like me who might be feeling at least somewhat on edge about what Pope Francis is doing.

http://www.audiosancto.org/sermon/20131020-Christ-is-the-Point.html

What do you find disturbing about Francis?

Pope Francis disturbs me because God is using him to disturb me and to show me how far I am from living the teachings of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ .

How do you know that God is using him to disturb you. About what? Until we have developed a clear idea of what it means to be separate from the world you cannot even know what Jesus taught. How then can a teacher who is in the world and all that is of it teach you then about our Savior. If Francis knew he would rent his clothes and leave the Vatican.

Oh dear ! You don't change do you .

Can you not see goodness where there is goodness ?

Yes I can. Tell me will all people who do good things go to heaven? Is it really just about being good?

He who humbles himself shall be exalted and he who exalts be abased.

Do you think Pope Francis is a good man ?
[/quote

If you ask me does he do good things and thinks himself a good man who sincerely believes he I good and serves God. I do not know Him personally enough to make a judgment, but I could assume so. This si not about him personally being good in mans eyes but is he truly serving God  or is he serving God from mans carnal concepts.

I am pleased that you assume that Pope Francis does good things and sincerely believes that he serves God .

This does no mean I except Him for the position he thinks he serves. it is still false and worldly therefore he is not able to truly teach of the savior from his exalted position of men.

Does not Pope Francis , by word and deed , truly teach of our Lord and Saviour , Jesus Christ ?

He can teach about Christ but he stands on a worldly platform. Therefore the papacy says it of Christ but its heart is in the world and all that is fleshly and carnal. He is on a religious political platform which is antichrist. It is for this reason that it is the  harlot

Please give examples of how Pope Francis' heart is in the world , and is fleshly and carnal .

Guess you just are never going to  get it. This has never been about Francis being worldly.  but the whole Papal thing. It the whole big show from day one the papacy put on Royal robes and ruled as religious political monarchs. I never said one thing against him personally as being a good man. But as long as sits as popes do then he is worldly by virtue of the whole order.

So you say that this has never been about Pope Francis , but about the whole Papal thing . So that must include Pope Francis .

Again I ask you in which ways is Pope Francis worldly ?

And again I say he is worldly by virtue of the papal order. Perhaps you should ask Why is the papacy worldly? However it has been the subject of most our posts.

You say that Pope Francis is worldly by virtue of the papal order .

What is "the papal order" you refer to ? And in which ways does it make Pope Francis wordly ? Can you please give some examples of how Pope Francis has been worldly since he became Bishop of Rome ?

Do you remember reading this

Guess you just are never going to  get it. This has never been about Francis being worldly.  but the whole Papal thing. It the whole big show from day one the papacy put on Royal robes and ruled as religious political monarchs. I never said one thing against him personally as being a good man. But as long as sits as popes do then he is worldly by virtue of the whole order.

This is the answer I gave you already. If you don't understand why this is of the world than there is nothing more I can say. The problem is with your understanding what worldly is

But what you refer to as "the whole papal" must involve Pope Francis more than anyone . He is the pope after all . Surely you haven't missed that fact .

So in which ways is Pope Francis wordly ?

Goodbye Paulus. Have a blessed day.

May you have a blessed day also , and may you not be too troubled by Pope Francis and the challenges he gives us by word and deed , challenges to take the Gospel message seriously and to live out in our daily lives the teachings and example of of our Lord and Saviour , Jesus Christ .

Goodbye Paulus. Have a blessed day.


May you have a blessed day also , and may you not be too troubled by Pope Francis and the challenges he gives us by word and deed , challenges to take the Gospel message seriously and to live out in our daily lives the teachings and example of of our Lord and Saviour , Jesus Christ .



Mike> Living in peace with the world is one thing but loving the world is another. You can't  love  Jesus and love the world also. That is to be like it. In the prayer to the disciples Jesus said I pray for them, I pray not for the world. John 17:9 Im sure you have read the prayer for the disciples. Have ever noticed how many times he mentions the world in this prayer and not once is it in a favorable light. If one loves the world he cannot love Christ so no matter how much he preaches Jesus he sleeping with world which makes the papacy a prostitute. But you are not looking at that are you everytime the kings of the world pay their respects and kiss his ring are you? You Are not looking at that every time he addresses the UN are You. How much have you read REV 17and 18 and see how these thing are very much a part of all the papacy is a part of every day. So put you your blinders on and keep fooling your self. If he was serious about Christ he would be serious about all the Jesus taught about loving not  the world. read 2nd Cor 6:14,18

Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? 15 And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel? 16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. 17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you, 18 And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.

God bless

Quote from: mclees8 on Mon Nov 18, 2013 - 16:25:21
Goodbye Paulus. Have a blessed day.


May you have a blessed day also , and may you not be too troubled by Pope Francis and the challenges he gives us by word and deed , challenges to take the Gospel message seriously and to live out in our daily lives the teachings and example of of our Lord and Saviour , Jesus Christ .

No , my brother in Christ , I want to be continually challenged by  Pope Francis to live the teachings of our Lord and Saviour , Jesus Christ .

Praised be Jesus Christ for Pope Francis , and for the way Pope Francis S.J. is living out his Petrine ministry as servant of the servants of God .

Quote from: Paulus on Tue Nov 19, 2013 - 02:31:18

Quote from: mclees8 on Mon Nov 18, 2013 - 16:25:21
Goodbye Paulus. Have a blessed day.


May you have a blessed day also , and may you not be too troubled by Pope Francis and the challenges he gives us by word and deed , challenges to take the Gospel message seriously and to live out in our daily lives the teachings and example of of our Lord and Saviour , Jesus Christ .

No , my brother in Christ , I want to be continually challenged by  Pope Francis to live the teachings of our Lord and Saviour , Jesus Christ .

Praised be Jesus Christ for Pope Francis , and for the way Pope Francis S.J. is living out his Petrine ministry as servant of the servants of God .

Please do not misunderstand me Paulus. As long as you see Jesus as your true Savior and you know that you  are following Christ and that Francis is just a man among men then listen to him when he says follow the teachings of Christ but be sure that it is Jesus you are listening to and not Francis and his papacy for they say and do not.

God bless

Quote from: mclees8 on Mon Nov 18, 2013 - 16:25:21
Living in peace with the world is one thing but loving the world is another. You can't  love  Jesus and love the world also. That is to be like it.

McL,

Well, what does it mean to "love the world?"  To love the world (in the bad sense) is to embrace the *values* that are esteemed by those who are "of the world."  These are the same that St. Paul calls the "works of the flesh" in Galatians 5:19-21:

Quote from: Galatians 5:19-21Now the works of the flesh are obvious, which are: adultery, sexual immorality, uncleanness, lustfulness, idolatry, sorcery, hatred, strife, jealousies, outbursts of anger, rivalries, divisions, heresies, envyings, murders, drunkenness, orgies, and things like these; of which I forewarn you, even as I also forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit the Kingdom of God.

I think it needs to be confessed that prior to the Reformation, we did have some popes who "loved the world" in this sense.  However, the Counil of Trent and the "Counter-Reformation" did a lot to reform the papacy, and certainly since the end of the Papal States in 1870, the popes have *all* been godly men.  Furthermore, every pope since John XXIII (elected 1958) has earnestly worked to put an end to the strife, rivalries and divisions that have kept Catholics and Protestants (as well as Orthodox!) separated for many centuries.

It is this division that is not of God

Quote from: mclees8 on Mon Nov 18, 2013 - 16:25:21
If one loves the world he cannot love Christ, so no matter how much he preaches Jesus he is sleeping with world, which makes the papacy a prostitute.

In other words, what you're saying is that when "the kings of the world pay their respects and kiss his ring," the pope must be approving of all their vainglory and lust for power?  And what's wrong with the pope addressing the UN?  He is only exhorting them to pursue a path of peace and justice.

Quote from: mclees8 on Tue Nov 19, 2013 - 09:56:09

Quote from: Paulus on Tue Nov 19, 2013 - 02:31:18

Quote from: mclees8 on Mon Nov 18, 2013 - 16:25:21
Goodbye Paulus. Have a blessed day.


May you have a blessed day also , and may you not be too troubled by Pope Francis and the challenges he gives us by word and deed , challenges to take the Gospel message seriously and to live out in our daily lives the teachings and example of of our Lord and Saviour , Jesus Christ .

No , my brother in Christ , I want to be continually challenged by  Pope Francis to live the teachings of our Lord and Saviour , Jesus Christ .

Praised be Jesus Christ for Pope Francis , and for the way Pope Francis S.J. is living out his Petrine ministry as servant of the servants of God .

be sure that it is Jesus you are listening to and not Francis and his papacy for they say and do not.
God bless

Now I am having trouble not with Pope Francis but with your vocabulary .

You tell me not to listen to "Francis and his papacy for they ( note your plural "they" ) say and do not " .

I can understand Pope Francis saying something . In fact I rejoice in what Pope Francis says . He proclaims by word and deed the Gospel of our Lord and Saviour , Jesus Christ  .

But I do not understand how his papacy can say anything . The papacy is the office of a pope and the period of time of that office , but  an office and a period of time do not have the ability to speak .  So I cannot listen to the papacy for by its very nature it cannot speak .

Pope Francis who holds the office speaks and during his period of time as pope he speaks .

So using correctly our English language I ask of you : " In your implying that Pope Francis does not , by word and deed , proclaim the teachings of Jesus , which of his words and deeds are contrary to the teachings of Jesus ? "

Quote from: Paulus on Tue Nov 19, 2013 - 11:31:42

Quote from: mclees8 on Tue Nov 19, 2013 - 09:56:09

Quote from: Paulus on Tue Nov 19, 2013 - 02:31:18

Quote from: mclees8 on Mon Nov 18, 2013 - 16:25:21
Goodbye Paulus. Have a blessed day.


May you have a blessed day also , and may you not be too troubled by Pope Francis and the challenges he gives us by word and deed , challenges to take the Gospel message seriously and to live out in our daily lives the teachings and example of of our Lord and Saviour , Jesus Christ .

No , my brother in Christ , I want to be continually challenged by  Pope Francis to live the teachings of our Lord and Saviour , Jesus Christ .

Praised be Jesus Christ for Pope Francis , and for the way Pope Francis S.J. is living out his Petrine ministry as servant of the servants of God .

be sure that it is Jesus you are listening to and not Francis and his papacy for they say and do not.
God bless

Now I am having trouble not with Pope Francis but with your vocabulary .

You tell me not to listen to "Francis and his papacy for they ( note your plural "they" ) say and do not " .

I can understand Pope Francis saying something . In fact I rejoice in what Pope Francis says . He proclaims by word and deed the Gospel of our Lord and Saviour , Jesus Christ  .

But I do not understand how his papacy can say anything . The papacy is the office of a pope and the period of time of that office , but  an office and a period of time do not have the ability to speak .  So I cannot listen to the papacy for by its very nature it cannot speak .

Pope Francis who holds the office speaks and during his period of time as pope he speaks .

So using correctly our English language I ask of you : " In your implying that Pope Francis does not , by word and deed , proclaim the teachings of Jesus , which of his words and deeds are contrary to the teachings of Jesus ? "

I believe Paulus you  are intelligent and not dumb. So you are just playing with me. When Jesus spoke about the Pharisees was he not addressing the whole order of men. He never realy addressed Ki phase who when he spoke he spoke for the whole order right. Jesus did not address him because he was part of the whole order. Does the order speak. Why are you trying to play dumb? 

One more thing can material things speak? Yes they can. If a man drives a Roles Royce and you drive a used clunker what say. He is rich and you are not. If one lavishes in fine linens and you wall Mart what does that. I live better than you. right. So what is the dumb stuff

Quote from: mclees8 on Tue Nov 19, 2013 - 12:46:04

Quote from: Paulus on Tue Nov 19, 2013 - 11:31:42

Quote from: mclees8 on Tue Nov 19, 2013 - 09:56:09

Quote from: Paulus on Tue Nov 19, 2013 - 02:31:18

Quote from: mclees8 on Mon Nov 18, 2013 - 16:25:21
Goodbye Paulus. Have a blessed day.


May you have a blessed day also , and may you not be too troubled by Pope Francis and the challenges he gives us by word and deed , challenges to take the Gospel message seriously and to live out in our daily lives the teachings and example of of our Lord and Saviour , Jesus Christ .

No , my brother in Christ , I want to be continually challenged by  Pope Francis to live the teachings of our Lord and Saviour , Jesus Christ .

Praised be Jesus Christ for Pope Francis , and for the way Pope Francis S.J. is living out his Petrine ministry as servant of the servants of God .

be sure that it is Jesus you are listening to and not Francis and his papacy for they say and do not.
God bless

Now I am having trouble not with Pope Francis but with your vocabulary .

You tell me not to listen to "Francis and his papacy for they ( note your plural "they" ) say and do not " .

I can understand Pope Francis saying something . In fact I rejoice in what Pope Francis says . He proclaims by word and deed the Gospel of our Lord and Saviour , Jesus Christ  .

But I do not understand how his papacy can say anything . The papacy is the office of a pope and the period of time of that office , but  an office and a period of time do not have the ability to speak .  So I cannot listen to the papacy for by its very nature it cannot speak .

Pope Francis who holds the office speaks and during his period of time as pope he speaks .

So using correctly our English language I ask of you : " In your implying that Pope Francis does not , by word and deed , proclaim the teachings of Jesus , which of his words and deeds are contrary to the teachings of Jesus ? "

I believe Paulus you  are intelligent and not dumb. So you are just playing with me.

You have got it wrong .

I am not just playing with you .

I am aiming to obtain the correct usage of the English language .

Words are the medium of forums such  as this one . They need to be used accurately .

I will continue to fight for accuracy in our words , in our language .

The office speaks and has spoken and those words are written down and the popes writings must be in agreement or harmony.
So Pope Francis despite being a great human being and Christ like, is attached to an office that has historically been a burden to the people of God and not a blessing. That is why many reformers called the popes office of being of antichrist spirit.

Quote from: FireSword on Tue Nov 19, 2013 - 18:15:06
The office speaks

Another one with a problem with the English language.

An office does not speak , but the one who holds the office speaks .

President Obama speaks , but the office of presidency which he holds does not speak .

Anyway back to Pope Francis . Is there anything which Pope Francis has said which is not in total agreement with the teachings of our Lord and Saviour , Jesus Christ ?

Quote from: Paulus on Wed Nov 20, 2013 - 01:26:34

Quote from: FireSword on Tue Nov 19, 2013 - 18:15:06
The office speaks

Another one with a problem with the English language.

An office does not speak , but the one who holds the office speaks .

President Obama speaks , but the office of presidency which he holds does not speak .

Anyway back to Pope Francis . Is there anything which Pope Francis has said which is not in total agreement with the teachings of our Lord and Saviour , Jesus Christ ?

In words no but the nature of his office and all it has represented speaks loud.  His office is not in agreement with Christ teachings Because he has not understood " Love no the world"  which is Babylon and the command to be separate and not in bed with it. You want to pick hairs about words. I have been enlightened. Read REV 17 & 18 and maybe you can be enlightened . Don't just read it but give prayerful thought then tell me what you think it means.

Quote from: mclees8 on Wed Nov 20, 2013 - 09:30:44

Quote from: Paulus on Wed Nov 20, 2013 - 01:26:34

Quote from: FireSword on Tue Nov 19, 2013 - 18:15:06
The office speaks

Another one with a problem with the English language.

An office does not speak , but the one who holds the office speaks .

President Obama speaks , but the office of presidency which he holds does not speak .

Anyway back to Pope Francis . Is there anything which Pope Francis has said which is not in total agreement with the teachings of our Lord and Saviour , Jesus Christ ?

Absolutely. Because he has not understood " Love no the world"  which is Babylon and the command to be separate and not in bed with it. You want to pick hairs about words. I have been enlightened

Here is an example that Mike may have missed:
http://www.news.va/en/news/day-of-grief-following-lampedusa-tragedy-pope-fran
----
Vatican City, 4 October 2013 (VIS) – The second stage of Pope Francis' pastoral visit to Assisi was the bishop's residence. Here, in 1206, before his father Pietro Bernardone, who, enraged by his son's conduct, had taken him to trial, and the bishop Guido, representative of the ecclesial authority to whom the Poverello had appealed, Francis denuded himself of his rich garments and proclaimed God as his true father. Moved by this gesture, the bishop embraced him and covered him with his cape.

In the "Sala della Spoliazione", where this episode took place, the Holy Father met with the poor assisted by Caritas, after listening to an address by bishop Domenico Sorrentino, who remarked that Francis was the first pope to visit the room in the last eight hundred years.

The pontiff, again speaking off the cuff, said that during recent days the newspapers had speculated about what he would say in that room. "The Pope will go to despoil the Church there! He will despoil the bishops, the cardinals, himself!" This, he observed "is a good opportunity to invite the Church to despoil herself. But we are all Church! All of us! From the first moment of our baptism, we are all Church, and we must all take the path of Jesus, who took the path of despoiling himself. He became a servant; he sought humiliation, unto the Cross. And if we wish to be Christians, there is no other path".

"But some say", he continued, "can't we follow a more human Christianity – without the Cross, without Jesus, without denuding ourselves? In this way we become cake-shop Christians, like beautiful cakes, exquisite sweets. Beautiful, but not true Christians! Some might say, 'but what does the Church need to despoil herself of?' Today she must cast aside a grave sin, which threatens every member of the Church, all of us: the danger of worldliness. The Christian cannot co-exist with this worldly spirit. Worldliness leads us to vanity, self-importance, pride. And this is an idol, it is not God. It is an idol! And idolatry is the gravest sin of all!"

"When the media speak of the Church, they believe that the Church means priests, nuns, bishops, cardinals and the Pope. But we are all Church, as I have said. And we must all cast aside this worldiness: the spirit contrary to the beatitudes, the spirit contrary to that of Jesus. Worldliness is harmful to us. It is so sad to encounter a worldly Christian, sure within himself of that security that faith gives him, and sure of the security the world offers him. You cannot work on both sides. The Church – all of us – must reject worldliness, which leads to vanity and pride, which are idolatry".

"Jesus Himself said, 'No one can serve two masters. Either you will hate the one and love the other, or you will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and money'. In money He includes all this worldly spirit: money, vanity, pride, that route... that we cannot follow ... it is sad to erase with one hand what we write with the other. The Gospel is the Gospel! There is one God, and Jesus became a servant for us, and the spirit of the world has nothing to do with this".

"And today, many of you", he said, addressing those present, "have been despoiled by this savage world, that does not give you work, that does not offer help; to which it does not matter if there are children who die of hunger in the world; it does not matter if many families have nothing to eat, and do not have the dignity of being able to bring home bread; it does not matter that many people are forced to flee from slavery and hunger, to flee in search of freedom. With great sadness we see, so many times, that instead they find death, as they did yesterday, in Lampedusa: today is a day of grief. This is what the worldly spirit does. It is entirely ridiculous that a Christian – a true Christian, a priest, a nun, a bishop, a cardinal, a Pope, might wish to follow the path of worldliness, which is a homicidal path. The spirit of worldliness kills! It kills the soul! It kills people! It kills the Church!"

"When Francis despoiled himself he was just a young boy, he did not have the strength for such a gesture. It was the strength of God that drove him to do this, the strength of God Who wanted to remind us of what Jesus said to us about the spirit of the world, that which Jesus begged of His Father, so that the Father might save us from the spirit of the world".

"Today, here", concluded Pope Francis, "we ask for grace for all Christians. May the Lord give us all the courage to despoil ourselves, not of twenty cents, but of the spirit of the world, which is the leprosy, the cancer of our society! It is the cancer of God's revelation. The spirit of the world is the enemy of Jesus! I ask the Lord for the grace of despoiling us of this".

Finally, the Pope thanked all of those present for their welcome, and added, "Pray for me; I need your prayers".
----

In this way, Peter speaks through Francis.

Quote from: mclees8 on Wed Nov 20, 2013 - 09:30:44

Quote from: Paulus on Wed Nov 20, 2013 - 01:26:34

Quote from: FireSword on Tue Nov 19, 2013 - 18:15:06
The office speaks

Another one with a problem with the English language.

An office does not speak , but the one who holds the office speaks .

President Obama speaks , but the office of presidency which he holds does not speak .

Anyway back to Pope Francis . Is there anything which Pope Francis has said which is not in total agreement with the teachings of our Lord and Saviour , Jesus Christ ?

His office is not in agreement with Christ teachings Because he has not understood " Love no the world"  which is Babylon and the command to be separate and not in bed with it. 

To put some flesh on the "office" which you refer to , let's deal with the man who holds the office  , Pope Francis .

How is Pope Francis not in agreement with Christ's teachings ?

How has Pope Francis not understood "Love not the world" ?

How is Pope Francis not following the command to be separate from Babylon and is instead in bed with it ?

" At that time Jesus, full of joy through the Holy Spirit, said, "I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children. Yes, Father, for this is what you were pleased to do . "
Little Boy in Yellow Steals The Show As Pope Francis Speaks To Families
I'll follow the children any day rather than the cynics .

Catholica, thanks for posting this! 

Quote from: Paulus on Wed Nov 20, 2013 - 01:26:34

Quote from: FireSword on Tue Nov 19, 2013 - 18:15:06
The office speaks

Another one with a problem with the English language.

An office does not speak , but the one who holds the office speaks .

President Obama speaks , but the office of presidency which he holds does not speak .

Anyway back to Pope Francis . Is there anything which Pope Francis has said which is not in total agreement with the teachings of our Lord and Saviour , Jesus Christ ?

The office is not limited to Pope Francis but also includes the cardinals and Bishops and these also make statements, such as the recent one about Atheists are not saved. Also the office has to speak when Pope Francis is no longer available is some form.

Quote from: mclees8 on Wed Nov 20, 2013 - 09:30:44

Quote from: Paulus on Wed Nov 20, 2013 - 01:26:34
Anyway back to Pope Francis . Is there anything which Pope Francis has said which is not in total agreement with the teachings of our Lord and Saviour , Jesus Christ ?

In words no but the nature of his office and all it has represented speaks loud.

This is something a lot of Catholics need to understand, namely that there's a lot of healing needed because so many wounds have been inflicted.  Only Christ can heal us and make us one again.

The key here is that it "has" represented some bad things, but Pope Francis has already done a lot to change this, and God willing, he will do a lot more.

Quote from: mclees8 on Wed Nov 20, 2013 - 09:30:44
His office is not in agreement with Christ teachings Because he has not understood " Love not the world"  which is Babylon and the command to be separate and not in bed with it.

By all means, please read what Catholica posted here this morning.  Pope Francis addresses this issue and then some!

Quote from: FireSword on Wed Nov 20, 2013 - 12:05:29

Quote from: Paulus on Wed Nov 20, 2013 - 01:26:34

Quote from: FireSword on Tue Nov 19, 2013 - 18:15:06
The office speaks

Another one with a problem with the English language.

An office does not speak , but the one who holds the office speaks .

President Obama speaks , but the office of presidency which he holds does not speak .

Anyway back to Pope Francis . Is there anything which Pope Francis has said which is not in total agreement with the teachings of our Lord and Saviour , Jesus Christ ?

The office is not limited to Pope Francis but also includes the cardinals and Bishops and these also make statements, such as the recent one about Atheists are not saved. Also the office has to speak when Pope Francis is no longer available is some form.

Your problem with the English language does not improve .

The office of the papacy is the ministry carried out by Pope Francis .

The office of the papacy does not include cardinals and bishops . They have their own office in their own right .

You must get a better grasp of the Queen's English .

From what I can gather from your words you are confusing the Papacy with the Magisterium . They are not the same .

The Magisterium is the teaching office of the Church which is held by Pope Francis and all the other bishops of the Church , and is especially evident in Ecumenical Councils .

I suggest that you read the document "Christus Dominus" of the 21st Ecumenical Council of the Church .
http://www.vatican.va/archive/hist_councils/ii_vatican_council/documents/vat-ii_decree_19651028_christus-dominus_en.html

You really must choose your words more accurately , and not speak of matters of which you have such a poor knowledge .

Anyway back to Pope France who holds the office of the papacy . I suspect that bigoted anti-Catholics are irked by Pope Francis .

Here he is again . Get used to it .
Pics cast Francis as a new kind of pope

Quote from: Paulus on Wed Nov 20, 2013 - 14:26:13
Here he is again . Get used to it .
Pics cast Francis as a new kind of pope

A good video, but the end contains the general media distortions about Francis and so-called "gay marriage" so people shouldn't be deceived.  He truly loves the sinner but hates the sin. 

* His statement about the Church being too focused on (so-called) same-sex marriage, artificial contraception, etc. was more of his exhortation to not simply be dogmatic about it but rather actually to help people with it.  It doesn't mean that he is inclined to change doctrine regarding these things (nor does he have the authority to do so)
* His "who am I to judge" is regarding whether a person with same-sex attraction is or is not faithfully struggling against it, not with regard to relinquishing the possibility of admonishing a sinner who is publicly embracing the lifestyle
* His survey is not for individual Catholics but to parishes, and will ask about how they deal with helping the faithful in tough inter-relational situations, such as those who have been divorced

Anyway, this bears repeating as often as the media distorts things and hears them in their liberal way.

Quote from: Catholica on Wed Nov 20, 2013 - 14:53:32

Quote from: Paulus on Wed Nov 20, 2013 - 14:26:13
Here he is again . Get used to it .
Pics cast Francis as a new kind of pope

* His survey is not for individual Catholics but to parishes, and will ask about how they deal with helping the faithful in tough inter-relational situations, such as those who have been divorced

Catholica , the bishops of England and Wales have presented the survey for individual Catholics .
https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/FamilySynod2014

Quote from: Paulus on Wed Nov 20, 2013 - 15:20:46

Quote from: Catholica on Wed Nov 20, 2013 - 14:53:32

Quote from: Paulus on Wed Nov 20, 2013 - 14:26:13
Here he is again . Get used to it .
Pics cast Francis as a new kind of pope

* His survey is not for individual Catholics but to parishes, and will ask about how they deal with helping the faithful in tough inter-relational situations, such as those who have been divorced

Catholica , the bishops of England and Wales have presented the survey for individual Catholics .
https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/FamilySynod2014

That is interesting, I wasn't aware of that.  It seems that some dioceses have posted the survey to lay people, but reading the questions as written (from the Vatican), my opinion is that the typical layperson is not going to be able to answer them, as some require knowledge of aggregate data or documents of Vatican II or Papal Encyclicals that most typical laypeople are not going to be familiar with. 

Quote from: epiphanius on Wed Nov 20, 2013 - 12:22:36

Quote from: mclees8 on Wed Nov 20, 2013 - 09:30:44

Quote from: Paulus on Wed Nov 20, 2013 - 01:26:34
Anyway back to Pope Francis . Is there anything which Pope Francis has said which is not in total agreement with the teachings of our Lord and Saviour , Jesus Christ ?

In words no but the nature of his office and all it has represented speaks loud.

This is something a lot of Catholics need to understand, namely that there's a lot of healing needed because so many wounds have been inflicted.  Only Christ can heal us and make us one again.

The key here is that it "has" represented some bad things, but Pope Francis has already done a lot to change this, and God willing, he will do a lot more.

Quote from: mclees8 on Wed Nov 20, 2013 - 09:30:44
His office is not in agreement with Christ teachings Because he has not understood " Love not the world"  which is Babylon and the command to be separate and not in bed with it.

By all means, please read what Catholica posted here this morning.  Pope Francis addresses this issue and then some!

Quote from: epiphanius on Wed Nov 20, 2013 - 12:22:36

Quote from: mclees8 on Wed Nov 20, 2013 - 09:30:44

Quote from: Paulus on Wed Nov 20, 2013 - 01:26:34
Anyway back to Pope Francis . Is there anything which Pope Francis has said which is not in total agreement with the teachings of our Lord and Saviour , Jesus Christ ?

In words no but the nature of his office and all it has represented speaks loud.

This is something a lot of Catholics need to understand, namely that there's a lot of healing needed because so many wounds have been inflicted.  Only Christ can heal us and make us one again.

The key here is that it "has" represented some bad things, but Pope Francis has already done a lot to change this, and God willing, he will do a lot more.

Quote from: mclees8 on Wed Nov 20, 2013 - 09:30:44
His office is not in agreement with Christ teachings Because he has not understood " Love not the world"  which is Babylon and the command to be separate and not in bed with it.

By all means, please read what Catholica posted here this morning.  Pope Francis addresses this issue and then some!

Yes I have read it and saw the video also. I have put it my word program so that I can take time to give a careful response. I think it is wonderful what he is doing and sure I am far from being understood. I must clarify my comments better. My weak use of language I guess.  I never personally attacked him or said he was not a good man. If you have read my responses you know that. This has never been about Francis personally but he office of pope and what it represents.  I thought John Paul was a man of great virtue. I am just going to have over look Paulus with his attacks on proper word use. I think he does that to try and diminish my comments. They are not really that hard to understand only if one just wants to be hard headed. We all know that an office being a room with a desk and pictures on the wall does not speak however that is not the only use of the word office such as offices of leadership which denotes ones position. I really think Paulus is,      Oh well moving on. 

Quote from: Catholica on Wed Nov 20, 2013 - 15:36:38

Quote from: Paulus on Wed Nov 20, 2013 - 15:20:46

Quote from: Catholica on Wed Nov 20, 2013 - 14:53:32

Quote from: Paulus on Wed Nov 20, 2013 - 14:26:13
Here he is again . Get used to it .
Pics cast Francis as a new kind of pope

* His survey is not for individual Catholics but to parishes, and will ask about how they deal with helping the faithful in tough inter-relational situations, such as those who have been divorced

Catholica , the bishops of England and Wales have presented the survey for individual Catholics .
https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/FamilySynod2014

That is interesting, I wasn't aware of that.  It seems that some dioceses have posted the survey to lay people, but reading the questions as written (from the Vatican), my opinion is that the typical layperson is not going to be able to answer them, as some require knowledge of aggregate data or documents of Vatican II or Papal Encyclicals that most typical laypeople are not going to be familiar with. 

That problem has been addressed
http://www.catholicnews.org.uk/Home/Featured/Synod-of-Bishops-on-the-Family-2014/Survey-FAQs

Quote from: mclees8 on Wed Nov 20, 2013 - 16:42:20

Quote from: epiphanius on Wed Nov 20, 2013 - 12:22:36

Quote from: mclees8 on Wed Nov 20, 2013 - 09:30:44

Quote from: Paulus on Wed Nov 20, 2013 - 01:26:34
Anyway back to Pope Francis . Is there anything which Pope Francis has said which is not in total agreement with the teachings of our Lord and Saviour , Jesus Christ ?

In words no but the nature of his office and all it has represented speaks loud.

This is something a lot of Catholics need to understand, namely that there's a lot of healing needed because so many wounds have been inflicted.  Only Christ can heal us and make us one again.

The key here is that it "has" represented some bad things, but Pope Francis has already done a lot to change this, and God willing, he will do a lot more.

Quote from: mclees8 on Wed Nov 20, 2013 - 09:30:44
His office is not in agreement with Christ teachings Because he has not understood " Love not the world"  which is Babylon and the command to be separate and not in bed with it.

By all means, please read what Catholica posted here this morning.  Pope Francis addresses this issue and then some!

Quote from: epiphanius on Wed Nov 20, 2013 - 12:22:36

Quote from: mclees8 on Wed Nov 20, 2013 - 09:30:44

Quote from: Paulus on Wed Nov 20, 2013 - 01:26:34
Anyway back to Pope Francis . Is there anything which Pope Francis has said which is not in total agreement with the teachings of our Lord and Saviour , Jesus Christ ?

In words no but the nature of his office and all it has represented speaks loud.

This is something a lot of Catholics need to understand, namely that there's a lot of healing needed because so many wounds have been inflicted.  Only Christ can heal us and make us one again.

The key here is that it "has" represented some bad things, but Pope Francis has already done a lot to change this, and God willing, he will do a lot more.

Quote from: mclees8 on Wed Nov 20, 2013 - 09:30:44
His office is not in agreement with Christ teachings Because he has not understood " Love not the world"  which is Babylon and the command to be separate and not in bed with it.

By all means, please read what Catholica posted here this morning.  Pope Francis addresses this issue and then some!

I am just going to have over look Paulus with his attacks on proper word use. I think he does that to try and diminish my comments.

Wrong again .

Can't you understand the importance of the correct usage of words ?

If we don't use words accurately we don't get the truth . I happen to believe that the truth is important .

Quote from: Paulus on Thu Nov 21, 2013 - 02:25:48

Quote from: mclees8 on Wed Nov 20, 2013 - 16:42:20

Quote from: epiphanius on Wed Nov 20, 2013 - 12:22:36

Quote from: mclees8 on Wed Nov 20, 2013 - 09:30:44

Quote from: Paulus on Wed Nov 20, 2013 - 01:26:34
Anyway back to Pope Francis . Is there anything which Pope Francis has said which is not in total agreement with the teachings of our Lord and Saviour , Jesus Christ ?

In words no but the nature of his office and all it has represented speaks loud.

This is something a lot of Catholics need to understand, namely that there's a lot of healing needed because so many wounds have been inflicted.  Only Christ can heal us and make us one again.

The key here is that it "has" represented some bad things, but Pope Francis has already done a lot to change this, and God willing, he will do a lot more.

Quote from: mclees8 on Wed Nov 20, 2013 - 09:30:44
His office is not in agreement with Christ teachings Because he has not understood " Love not the world"  which is Babylon and the command to be separate and not in bed with it.

By all means, please read what Catholica posted here this morning.  Pope Francis addresses this issue and then some!

Quote from: epiphanius on Wed Nov 20, 2013 - 12:22:36

Quote from: mclees8 on Wed Nov 20, 2013 - 09:30:44

Quote from: Paulus on Wed Nov 20, 2013 - 01:26:34
Anyway back to Pope Francis . Is there anything which Pope Francis has said which is not in total agreement with the teachings of our Lord and Saviour , Jesus Christ ?

In words no but the nature of his office and all it has represented speaks loud.

This is something a lot of Catholics need to understand, namely that there's a lot of healing needed because so many wounds have been inflicted.  Only Christ can heal us and make us one again.

The key here is that it "has" represented some bad things, but Pope Francis has already done a lot to change this, and God willing, he will do a lot more.

Quote from: mclees8 on Wed Nov 20, 2013 - 09:30:44
His office is not in agreement with Christ teachings Because he has not understood " Love not the world"  which is Babylon and the command to be separate and not in bed with it.

By all means, please read what Catholica posted here this morning.  Pope Francis addresses this issue and then some!

I am just going to have over look Paulus with his attacks on proper word use. I think he does that to try and diminish my comments.

Wrong again .

Can't you understand the importance of the correct usage of words ?

If we don't use words accurately we don't get the truth . I happen to believe that the truth is important .

Yes I can. truth is important but that is not what you are trying to do here. I,m not going  to talk to you or anyone like they are ignorant fools that have to taught like kindergarten kids. How ever I will watch how I describe things and make  statements.
Have a blessed day