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Boy o bouy
Lets all stay afloat
Has the many been decieved as the bible claims. Will we enter into His rest (Heb.4) or will we be decieved by the spirit of unbelief (Heb.3). Break 1 ya break them all. Right James? The Kingdom, the book of life, are they 1 in the same. No sittin Bull. Do all to stand \"in that day\". How about you Ghandi?

Before we start this, i would like to say i hope by FAITH we will ALL reach the Kingdom. Im not really sure that anyone understands how God will work things out in the end. HE gave us the scriptures. Thats really all we have to work with. I stand corrected. HE will send us a helper. A comforter.

Well? Gods sabbath. Must we keep it?

\"And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses; Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it. Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.\" (Col. 2:13-17, KJV).

QuoteWell? Gods sabbath. Must we keep it?

If so, how many of the other 612 commandments must we keep?

Quote

QuoteWell? Gods sabbath. Must we keep it?

Grace,

Compare! The Old Testament says, \"Do NOT do ANY work on a Sabbath.\" Jesus says, \"It is LAWFUL to do GOOD on a Sabbath\" (Matt. 12:12).

In times past God spoke to our fathers by the prophets. In these last days God spoke to US by His Son (Heb. 1:1-2).

We belong in \"these last days.\" Hence, we MUST listen to Jesus (Matt. 17:5) and DO as he says (Luke 6:46).

We do NOT observe Sabbath! Anything GOOD that we DO on a Sabbath is LAWFUL. Anything BAD is UNLAWFUL everyday, all the time.

Ed[/color]

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QuoteWell? Gods sabbath. Must we keep it?

If so, how many of the other 612 commandments must we keep?[/color]

They would correctly point out...
1) That this is the only one of the Ten Commandments that Christians have \"discarded\", and...
2) A day for rest, a Sabbath, is a concept not of the Mosaic Law, but of Creation.

Quote

Quote

QuoteWell? Gods sabbath. Must we keep it?

If so, how many of the other 612 commandments must we keep?

They would correctly point out...
1) That this is the only one of the Ten Commandments that Christians have \"discarded\", and...
2) A day for rest, a Sabbath, is a concept not of the Mosaic Law, but of Creation.

Skip,

All the laws are concepts from creation, but that doesn't change the fact they are all laws.

[span style=\'color:red\']Exd 31:14 Ye shall keep the sabbath therefore; for it [is] holy unto you: every one that defileth it shall surely be put to death: for whosoever doeth [any] work therein, that soul shall be cut off from among his people.[/span]

I really would like to know, how many of the other 612 commandments must we keep? Or is it just this one?

-Charles[/color]

Quote...
All the laws are concepts from creation, but that doesn't change the fact they are all laws.
...

Really?

I can show a day of rest on the 7th day from scripture:
1 Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them. 2 And on the seventh day God finished his work that he had done, and he rested on the seventh day from all his work that he had done. 3 So God blessed the seventh day and made it holy, because on it God rested from all his work that he had done in creation.
Gen. 2:1-3

Show me the other 9 (or 611) commandments at the creation from scripture.
[edit]
BTW -- it's not a matter of law, but of the day being holy.
Are you sure you want to defile a day that God proclaimed as \"holy\"?[/color]

By Grace, are you by chance a member of the Seventh-Day Adventist church? You certainly sound like it.

Pax.

QuoteAre you sure you want to defile a day that God proclaimed as \"holy\"?

Skip,

Please answer my question, how many of the other 612 commandments must we keep?

Or is it just this one?

-Charles[/color]

If Christians don't keep the Sabbath, it must be because the Spirit won't let them.

Or is it that I don't have to keep the Sabbath because my obedience is like filthy rags anyway, so I might as well go to the lake.

:headscratch:

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QuoteAre you sure you want to defile a day that God proclaimed as \"holy\"?

Skip,

Please answer my question, how many of the other 612 commandments must we keep?

Or is it just this one?

-Charles

The official (7th Day Adventist) position is that one must keep the 10 Commandments.

The other 602 were the ceremonial Law that was nailed to the cross.
You know, the sacrifices and offerings, etc.

Now...
1) This is the only one of the Ten Commandments that Christians have \"discarded\".
Why?
2) A day for rest, a Sabbath, is a concept not of the Mosaic Law, but of Creation.
On what basis do you discard this one, and keep the other nine?[/color]

Hebrews does say, 'there still remains then, a sabbath rest for the people of God'.


it doesn't get any plainer than that!!!



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[CODE][BGSOUND SRC=\"http://simplythebest.net/sounds/WAV/sound_effects_WAV/sound_effect_WAV_files/bubbles.wav\"][/color]

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QuoteIf Christians don't keep the Sabbath, it must be because the Spirit won't let them.

tidbit,

Did you know that Jesus BROKE the Sabbath and did NOT observe it?

The Jews who were commanded to observe the Sabbath and knew by heart HOW to observe the Sabbath, ACCUSED Jesus of BREAKING the Sabbath.

Listen to what the Bible teaches: \"Therefore the Jews sought all the more to kill him, because he not only BROKE the Sabbath, but also said God was his Father, making himself equal with God\" (John 5:18).

TRUE Christians do NOT observe Sabbath because they OBEY what Jesus, their HEAD tells them. He said, \"it is LAWFUL to DO good on Sabbath\" (Matt. 12:12).


Ed[/color]

QuoteBy Grace, are you by chance a member of the Seventh-Day Adventist church? You certainly sound like it.

Pax.

No i am not a 7th day adventist guy
They do not believe in the \"sign of Jonas\"
They do not believe the Kingdom will be here on earth
They choose to follow the words of their prophetess, rather than the WORDs of God

I did go to them early. Soon after i found in scripture about Gods day of rest. There meetin place was about an hour away.  But i only went to their bible study. But even then, i felt they were seeking God through works.  Aint gonna find Him that way. I wouldnt do as they told me. I was quite vocal from the start. They brought me into a big meeting (intimidation). They also sent 2 people to me who roamed from church to church, wearing old dress, who tried to tell me i was to be among the 144,000 because of the things i said in bible study. If i was lookin for a place in this world where i might be listened to, they sure were tryin to hand it to me on a silver platter. Thats really not what im lookin for. Im lookin to reach the kingdom. Where the 2nd death will have no power over me. Just gotta put off the things off the flesh and go from there. I hope that God does not get weary of my repenting.

Quote\"And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses; Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it. Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.\" (Col. 2:13-17, KJV).

I love the fact that you simply posted \"scripture\" in response to my question. Thats the way it should be. Let the WORD speak for itself. No explainations. No interpretations. Beutiful! (I know i cant spell) Ill get back to ya tommorrow. Or the day after. Have a good one.

QuoteThats the way it should be. Let the WORD speak for itself. No explainations. No interpretations. Beutiful!

He asked, \"Do you understand what you are reading?\" He replied, \"How can I, unless someone guides me?\" (Acts 8:30 NRSV)

Everyone interprets stuff they read every day, like the newspaper. You interpret scripture every time you read it, too. Interpretation isnt a bad thing.

Pax.

QuoteNow...
1) This is the only one of the Ten Commandments that Christians have \"discarded\".
Why?
2) A day for rest, a Sabbath, is a concept not of the Mosaic Law, but of Creation.
On what basis do you discard this one, and keep the other nine?

Skip,

Who said I keep the other nine?

[span style=\'color:red\']Gal 5:4
Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.[/span]

-Charles[/color]

Jesus didn't break the sabbath to purport (?) an example for us to do so whenever we wish....

he did so to fulfill the law of love in any situation:

the law, however is still in effect here... the law always is in effect.. love however gets first precedence though if something more important than the law is needed.

Quote

QuoteNow...
1) This is the only one of the Ten Commandments that Christians have \"discarded\".
Why?
2) A day for rest, a Sabbath, is a concept not of the Mosaic Law, but of Creation.
On what basis do you discard this one, and keep the other nine?

Skip,

Who said I keep the other nine?

[span style=\'color:red\']Gal 5:4
Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.[/span]

-Charles[/color]

My bad.
It was a careless on my part to assume that you do not kill, steal, commit adultery, etc... :p
Apparently, if I read the implications of your post correctly, not killing, stealing, etc, is tantamount to justification by Law.

And again, your verse goes to law -- actually, justification by Law, which has nothing to do with the concept of Sabbath.
I don't think that I said anywhere that one would be justified by Sabbath-keeping.

Sabbath was established at the creation.

The Sabbath Rest is symbolic of the relationship that we were meant to have with God in the beginning.  We were to rest in him, 100%, completely.  That's what the Garden of Eden was all about - it was a place where God and man could live together in a \"Sabbath Rest\", and according to Hebrews 4, we will get to that again some day.  This will happen, as Revelation says, when there is \"no longer any curse\".

The principle is still valid.  Our life is to be a life or rest with/in God.  We are to cease striving and realize that he is our source of everything, even the air we breathe.  It is in him we live, move, and have our being.  I personally need to do this much more than I do.

Thanks Spurly, that is a good idea, I agree and pray to continue to rest in Him daily.

Memmy

QuoteJesus didn't break the sabbath to purport (?) an example for us to do so whenever we wish....

he did so to fulfill the law of love in any situation:

the law, however is still in effect here... the law always is in effect.. love however gets first precedence though if something more important than the law is needed.

But Jesus also said, \"man was not made for the sabbath, but the sabbath was made for man.\" The sabbath under Jewish law was Saturday.

Pax.

QuoteSabbath was established at the creation.

God rested from his creation, the Sabbath was established in Exd 16:23.

I personally think the Ten Commandments are a good thing worthy to be kept by any Christian.

Csloan, Skip is correct... you cannot refer to the ceremonial laws of the Israelittes when referring to the 10 commandments... they are quite different.

I'm a little surprised that no one has brought this up.... in Jesus's sermon on the mount he uses the ten commandments extensively... but he places them in their proper perspective...

[a href=\"http://members.aol.com/cogwriter/command.htm\" target=\'_blank\']http://members.aol.com/cogwriter/command.htm[/a]

And much of the love that Christian's speak of when they speak of Christ's love comes from his teaching on the topic using the Ten Commandments...  

I have that bit of teaching taped to my monitor here at work...

Matthew 22 NLT
34But when the Pharisees heard that he had silenced the Sadducees with his reply, they thought up a fresh question of their own to ask him. 35One of them, an expert in religious law, tried to trap him with this question: 36\"Teacher, which is the most important commandment in the law of Moses?\"

   37Jesus replied, \" `You must love the Lord your God with all your heart, all your soul, and all your mind.' 38This is the first and greatest commandment. 39A second is equally important: `Love your neighbor as yourself.' 40All the other commandments and all the demands of the prophets are based on these two commandments.\"

There is absolutely nothing wrong with keeping the 10 commandments, in fact keeping some of them is the only way we'll be able to keep our obedience to Christ intact... the problem however is when we think we are justified by the law... read Romans 3-5 to learn how nothing we can do can justify us before God.  God owes us nothing... Jesus blood justified us before God... but to keep in his promise an emphasis to obedience is certainly needed, notice I didn't say perfect obedience is needed... I said an emphasis on obedience.. none are perfect save one.

As far as the Sabbath... first off this is for all us Gentiles...

Colossians 2:16
Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day.

and perhaps this will help us all understand the Sabbath a little better... what Paul wrote about it to the Hebrews...

Hebrews 4 The Message
Hebrews 4
When the Promises Are Mixed with Faith
  1For as long, then, as that promise of resting in him pulls us on to God's goal for us, we need to be careful that we're not disqualified. 2We received the same promises as those people in the wilderness, but the promises didn't do them a bit of good because they didn't receive the promises with faith. 3If we believe, though, we'll experience that state of resting. But not if we don't have faith. Remember that God said,

  Exasperated, I vowed,

   \"They'll never get where they're going,

   never be able to sit down and rest.\"

 

 

   God made that vow, even though he'd finished his part before the foundation of the world. 4Somewhere it's written, \"God rested the seventh day, having completed his work,\" 5but in this other text he says, \"They'll never be able to sit down and rest.\"

 

   6So this promise has not yet been fulfilled. Those earlier ones never did get to the place of rest because they were disobedient. 7God keeps renewing the promise and setting the date as today, just as he did in David's psalm, centuries later than the original invitation:

  Today, please listen,

   don't turn a deaf ear . . .

 

   8And so this is still a live promise. It wasn't canceled at the time of Joshua; otherwise, God wouldn't keep renewing the appointment for \"today.\" 9The promise of \"arrival\" and \"rest\" is still there for God's people. 10God himself is at rest. And at the end of the journey we'll surely rest with God. 11So let's keep at it and eventually arrive at the place of rest, not drop out through some sort of disobedience.

   12God means what he says. What he says goes. His powerful Word is sharp as a surgeon's scalpel, cutting through everything, whether doubt or defense, laying us open to listen and obey. 13Nothing and no one is impervious to God's Word. We can't get away from it--no matter what.

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QuoteSabbath was established at the creation.

God rested from his creation, the Sabbath was established in Exd 16:23.[/color]

I disagree.  The principle of Sabbath was established on the seventh day of creation, Adam and Eve's first full day as living creatures.  They woke up, and God let them know that the job of the day was simply resting in him.  Thus the first Sabbath when God rested and revelled in his relationship with mankind.

The Sabbath (or at least the Hebrew Sabbath) was not enjoined on gentile believers by the Council at Jerusalem (Acts 15.)

The Sabbath is also not mentioned in the Noachic covenant (Gen. 9)

ON the other hand, we're told in Genesis that God \"sanctified\" the seventh day.

Good points bog. Not sure where \"Law\" and \"Sort of Understood\" already fits in to all this!  (whatever I just meant?)

Quote

Quote

QuoteSabbath was established at the creation.

God rested from his creation, the Sabbath was established in Exd 16:23.

I disagree.  The principle of Sabbath was established on the seventh day of creation, Adam and Eve's first full day as living creatures.  They woke up, and God let them know that the job of the day was simply resting in him.  Thus the first Sabbath when God rested and revelled in his relationship with mankind.

Although God observed the Sabbath from creation, and sanctified the seventh day (Saturday), until the Jews were led out of Egyptian bondage, there is no evedience man knew anything about it.

The Sabbath was known only to God until...

\"Thou camest down also upon mount Sinai, and spakest with them from heaven , and givest them right judgements, and true laws, good statutes and commandments: and madest known unto them thy holy sabbath...\"  -  Nehemiah 9:13-14.

After God gave the Jews th Sabbath to observe, it was only for them, and no one else.  The Gentiles never observed the Sabbath.  It was for the Jews only.

Of course, now no one is to observe the Sabbath.

Robert G[/color]

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Quote

Quote

QuoteSabbath was established at the creation.

God rested from his creation, the Sabbath was established in Exd 16:23.

I disagree.  The principle of Sabbath was established on the seventh day of creation, Adam and Eve's first full day as living creatures.  They woke up, and God let them know that the job of the day was simply resting in him.  Thus the first Sabbath when God rested and revelled in his relationship with mankind.

Although God observed the Sabbath from creation, and sanctified the seventh day (Saturday), until the Jews were led out of Egyptian bondage, there is no evedience men knew anything about it.

The Sabbath was known only to God until...

\"Thou camest down also upon mount Sinai, and spakest with them from heaven , and givest them right judgements, and true laws, good statutes and commandments: and madest known unto them thy holy sabbath...\"  -  Nehemiah 9:13-14.

Robert G[/color]

I agree Robert.  However the principle for the Sabbath goes way back to the beginning.  It is not just something that popped on the scene at Mt. Sinai.

Quote from: spurly

QuoteI agree Robert.  However the principle for the Sabbath goes way back to the beginning.  It is not just something that popped on the scene at Mt. Sinai.

Well, \"the principle\" of the Sabbath was for God only.  You cannot tie any awareness of the Sabbath to man until Mt. Sinai.

As far as man observing the Sabbath in any way, or even knowing about it at all, yes, it did just \"pop up on the scene at Mt. Sinai.\"

Robert G[/color]

QuoteThere is absolutely nothing wrong with keeping the 10 commandments, in fact keeping some of them is the only way we'll be able to keep our obedience to Christ intact...

Cliff,

If in any way the keeping of the ten commandments is the only way to be obedient to Christ, aren't you then saying we are then justified by the law?

I always believed that the just shall live by faith. (Gal 3:11)

-Charles[/color]

do we have to constantly bring this up?

I don't keep some of the 10 commandments because I'm justified by them... I don't murder, steal, lie, commit adultery, etc. etc. because I have faith in Christ.... I love him, I love the Father, and I respect them enough to want to keep the Lords commands.

That is totally different than keeping the law for justification... as the Pharisees did and as the Israelites did when strictly adhering to law.

We're always bickering over grace on this site... and some are so adamant when you say \"obedience\".  There is obedience in Christianity.  There is holiness in Christianity... and if we don't have it we'll be in trouble on judgement day.

However our purpose can't be to be holy or obey for the sake of being holy or for the sake of obeying.  Obeying and adhering to holiness must be done out of love and faith.

So that means it has to be something we freely choose to do.

QuoteThere is obedience in Christianity.  There is holiness in Christianity... and if we don't have it we'll be in trouble on judgement day.

Cliff,

There is obedience and holiness only in Christ, if we don't have Him we will be in trouble on the day of Judgment.

-Charles[/color]