Christian Forums

oxymoron,

Please tell us HOW Sabbath is to be OBSERVED as COMMANDED by God. Then please tell us HOW you and your church OBSERVE Sabbath.

Ed

Hi Ed

ISAIAH 58 [13] If thou turn away thy foot from the sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on my holy day; and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of the LORD, honourable; and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine own words:[14] Then shalt thou delight thyself in the LORD; and I will cause thee to ride upon the high places of the earth, and feed thee with the heritage of Jacob thy father: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it.

I try to follow the above scripture and the commandment as its written. Reading the bible. No work that can be put off till sunday. I belong to no church.

OxyMoron,

Let no man judge you in your choice to keep the sabbath {Col 2:16}, and don't judge those who don't. {Rom 14:6-10}

Shalom,

-Charles

Quote

QuoteHi Ed

ISAIAH 58 [13] If thou turn away thy foot from the sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on my holy day; and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of the LORD, honourable; and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine own words:[14] Then shalt thou delight thyself in the LORD; and I will cause thee to ride upon the high places of the earth, and feed thee with the heritage of Jacob thy father: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it.

oxymoron,

Do you understand what the above quoted verses are saying? Let's look at these again as they are renderd in the Today's English Version:

ISAIAH 58 [13] The Lord says, \"If you treat the Sabbath as sacred and do not pursue your own interests on that day; if you value my holy day and honor it by NOT travelling, working or talking idly on that day, [14] then you will find the joy that comes from serving me. I will make you honored all over the world, and you will enjoy the land I gave your amcestor, Jacob. I, the Lord, have spoken.\"

It says \"NO travelling, NO working...\", you understand?

QuoteI try to follow the above scripture and the commandment as its written. Reading the bible. No work that can be put off till sunday.

You try! Is that how you observe Sabbath - you TRY? NO work that can  be put off till Sunday? Obviously, you CAN'T even COMPREHEND what you are READING!!!  Does God give you an option? Where do you get what you are saying oxymoron?

Here are additional COMMANDS that you MUST obey oxymoron:

\"Tell them that if they love their lives, they must NOT carry ANY load on the Sabbath. They must NOT carry ANYTHING in the gates of Jerusalem or carry ANYTHING out of their houses on the Sabbath. They must NOT work on the Sabbath; they must OBSERVE it as a sacred day, as I commanded their ANCESTORS\" (Jer. 17:21-22) TEV).

Do you OBSERVE Sabbath as COMMANDED by God? Are Abraham, Isaac and Jacob your ancestors oxymoron? I bet your answer to both questions are NEGATIVE, right?

QuoteI belong to no church.

Jesus Christ BUILT his CHURCH (Matt. 16:18). And he is the HEAD of his BODY, the CHURCH (Col. 1:18).  And DISCIPLES of Christ are \"all BAPTIZED into the ONE body\" (1 Cor. 12:13). And DISCIPLES of Christ were first called CHRISTIANS in Antioch (Acts 11:26).

You said you \"belong to no church.\" Therefore, you are NOT a Christian oxymoron! You must belong to \"time past.\" What business have you then in talking to Christians to whom God SPOKE by His Son (Heb. 1:1-2)?

Ed[/color]

Ed
I guess i should have been more specific. I belong to no church built by hands.

ACTS 17  [24] God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands;

MARK 14  [57] And there arose certain, and bare false witness against him, saying,[58] We heard him say, I will destroy this temple that is made with hands, and within three days I will build another made without hands.

ZECH.6  [12] And speak unto him, saying, Thus speaketh the LORD of hosts, saying, Behold the man whose name is The BRANCH; and he shall grow up out of his place, and he shall build the temple of the LORD: [13] Even he shall build the temple of the LORD; and he shall bear the glory, and shall sit and rule upon his throne; and he shall be a priest upon his throne: and the counsel of peace shall be between them both.

1COR.3 [16] Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?[17] If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.

2COR.6 [11] O ye Corinthians, our mouth is open unto you, our heart is enlarged.[12] Ye are not straitened in us, but ye are straitened in your own bowels.[13] Now for a recompence in the same, (I speak as unto my children,) be ye also enlarged.[14] Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?[15] And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?[16] And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.[17] Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you,[18] And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty

Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you

EPH.2 [19] Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;[20] And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;[21] In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:[22] In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit. Do you understand this Ed?

ISAIAH 45 [11] Thus saith the LORD, the Holy One of Israel, and his Maker, Ask me of things to come concerning my sons, and concerning the work of my hands command ye me.[12] I have made the earth, and created man upon it: I, even my hands, have stretched out the heavens, and all their host have I commanded. [13] I have raised him up in righteousness, and I will direct all his ways: he shall build my city, and he shall let go my captives, not for price nor reward, saith the LORD of hosts.[15] Verily thou art a God that hidest thyself, O God of Israel, the Saviour.[17] But Israel shall be saved in the LORD with an everlasting salvation: ye shall not be ashamed nor confounded world without end.

2COR.6 [11] O ye Corinthians, our mouth is open unto you, our heart is enlarged.[12] Ye are not straitened in us, but ye are straitened in your own bowels.[13] Now for a recompence in the same, (I speak as unto my children,) be ye also enlarged.[14] Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?[15] And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?[16] And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.[17] Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you,[18] And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty

Boy this new testament scripture says quite a bit when you let scripture interpret scripture. First, what does it mean "to enlarge your heart

QuoteOxyMoron,

Let no man judge you in your choice to keep the sabbath {Col 2:16}, and don't judge those who don't. {Rom 14:6-10}

Shalom,

-Charles

:amen:

Dont know what bible you are getting those interpretations from but if you go to page 5 you will find 4 posts full of scriptures about the meat and drink offerings. My guess is in your bible they changed the name of Jesus to Joshua in Hebrews 4. Am i correct?

For 16 hundred years or so the bad guys were able to have their way. They set up the way most will think. Then came along the printing press. We are now able to all read the Word.

1 PETER 5 [8] Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom  he may devour:

This new testament scripture says the devil is as a ROARING LION. And we as new testament believers are to watch out for these bad guys. They will be SEEKING WHOM  HE MAY DEVOUR:

MATT.7 [14] Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.[15] Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

And the above new testament scripture says to beware of false prophets. They are RAVENING WOLVES. Also implied here is that "the many

QuoteDont know what bible you are getting those interpretations from but if you go to page 5 you will find 4 posts full of scriptures about the meat and drink offerings. My guess is in your bible they changed the name of Jesus to Joshua in Hebrews 4. Am i correct?

Oxymormon,

Are you talking about Hebrews 4:8 in the Westcott-Hort translations? You wouldn't be correct in your assumption though, because I do use a AV. But I have a newer translation around here somewhere if that helps.

But, what is your point?[/color]

I would kinda think this would be an important topic if you were truly seeking the truth. So... Why aint all you ism'S coming here to defend your religiosity? Without this, calvins nothing, the popes nothing, and all your sunday go to meeting preacher boys are nothing. DEFEND YOUR FAITH!

QuoteI would kinda think this would be an important topic if you were truly seeking the truth. So... Why aint all you ism'S coming here to defend your religiosity? Without this, calvins nothing, the popes nothing, and all your sunday go to meeting preacher boys are nothing. DEFEND YOUR FAITH!

Oxymormon,

What are you talking about and who are you talking to? Your random and unprovoked attacks on calvinists, catholics and preachers doesn't make sense.

Again let me ask you, what is your point?[/color]

Hi CSloan
Im not attacking anyone. Im just wondering why people believe as they do without scriptural support. Everyone in my family is catholic and i know nothing of calvanism but there must be a reason people believe as they do.

EZEKIEL 20 [12] Moreover also I gave them my sabbaths, to be a sign between me and them, that they might know that I am the LORD that sanctify them.

The sabbath is a sign between God and his people that the "Lord does sanctify them

Hi All, I'm new and I will go back and read all the post, but I don't want to lose my train of thought(so easy to do nowadays). If I repeat anyone, please forgive.

IMO, we must keep the Sabbath. Having said this, let me add, that I believe Jesus is the Sabbath. (Come unto me all ye that are heavy burdened and I will give you rest.)
He is the refreshing. So if we have Jesus in our hearts, we keep the Sabbath, ALWAYS!
It's no longer about a day...it's about the rest that Jesus gives us, when we know HIM in a personal way.
Do you ever wonder what God thinks, as He watches and listens to these human arguments about His opinion?

DID I SAY SOMETHING WRONG?
YOU GUYS WERE GOING ALONG PRETTY GOOD, 'TIL I POSTED AND THEN THINGS STOPPED.
I HOPE I HAVEN'T BROKEN A RULE OR SOMETHING :(

KAT

KAT

After some 11 or 12 pages of discussion, sometimes the thread goes kinda cold.  I'm sure it has nothing to do with your post.  I like what you write.  Keep it coming.

Steve

Quote

QuoteIMO, we must keep the Sabbath. Having said this, let me add, that I believe Jesus is the Sabbath. (Come unto me all ye that are heavy burdened and I will give you rest.)
He is the refreshing. So if we have Jesus in our hearts, we keep the Sabbath, ALWAYS!

It's no longer about a day...it's about the rest that Jesus gives us, when we know HIM in a personal way.

kate, what you are saying in effect is, we DON'T have to OBSERVE Sabbath the way God COMMANDED the ancient Israelites to do. But tell me kate, how do you \"know Jesus in a personal way?\"

QuoteDo you ever wonder what God thinks, as He watches and listens to these human arguments about His opinion????

kate, God's words are NOT \"opinions!\" They are FACTS and they are TRUE because God's WORDS (not opinions) ALWAYS come true.

I DON'T wonder what God thinks kate because I DEFINITELY know what He will do to \"UNGODLY people.\" He will DESTROY them on JUDGMENT day (2 Peter 3:7).

Ed[/color]

Quotekate, God's words are NOT \"opinions!\" They are FACTS and they are TRUE because God's WORDS (not opinions) ALWAYS come true.

THANK YOU, ED, FOR POINTING OUT MY MISUSED WORD.
YOU ARE ABSOLUTELY CORRECT! GOD'S WORD ARE FACTS, NOT OPINIONS. WHAT WAS I THINKING???

Quotekate, what you are saying in effect is, we DON'T have to OBSERVE Sabbath the way God COMMANDED the ancient Israelites to do. But tell me kate, how do you \"know Jesus in a personal way?\"

I'M SAYING THAT WE ARE NOT UNDER THE SAME COVENANT AS THE ANCIENT ISRAELITES....'CAUSE WE'RE NOT ANCIENT ISRAELITES! THOSE OLD ORDINANCES HAVE BEEN NAILED TO THE CROSS.  MY LORD WAS ALSO ATTACKED FOR  HEALING ON THE SABBATH DAY.
AND I'M SAYING THAT I DO KEEP THE SABBATH.   I THINK JESUS IS THE SABBATH IN THE TRUEST SENSE.

HOW DO YOU KNOW JESUS IN A PERSONAL WAY, ED?

KATE[/color]

Quote

Quote

Quotekate, God's words are NOT \"opinions!\" They are FACTS and they are TRUE because God's WORDS (not opinions) ALWAYS come true.

THANK YOU, ED, FOR POINTING OUT MY MISUSED WORD.
YOU ARE ABSOLUTELY CORRECT! GOD'S WORD ARE FACTS, NOT OPINIONS. WHAT WAS I THINKING???

You are welcome kate.

Quote

Quotekate, what you are saying in effect is, we DON'T have to OBSERVE Sabbath the way God COMMANDED the ancient Israelites to do. But tell me kate, how do you \"know Jesus in a personal way?\"

I'M SAYING THAT WE ARE NOT UNDER THE SAME COVENANT AS THE ANCIENT ISRAELITES....'CAUSE WE'RE NOT ANCIENT ISRAELITES! THOSE OLD ORDINANCES HAVE BEEN NAILED TO THE CROSS.  MY LORD WAS ALSO ATTACKED FOR  HEALING ON THE SABBATH DAY.

Again, you are correct kate. Jesus said that \"it is LAWFUL to DO good on the Sabbath\" (Matt. 12:12). In CONTRAST, the Old Testament law on the observance of Sabbath PROHIBITED the DOING of ANY work on the Sabbath (Jeremiah 17:21-22).

QuoteAND I'M SAYING THAT I DO KEEP THE SABBATH.   I THINK JESUS IS THE SABBATH IN THE TRUEST SENSE.

When Jesus said, \"Come to me... and I will give you REST...\" he was referring to \"eternal life in the Holy City\" (Rev. 14:13; cf Rev. 21:1-4) for those who \"...BELIEVE in him and shall NOT perish but shall have everlasting life (John 3:16).

QuoteHOW DO YOU KNOW JESUS IN A PERSONAL WAY, ED?

I CANNOT know Jesus \"in a personal way\" kate because he is in heaven and I am on earth much as I don't know you or anyone in this board in a \"personal way.\"

But I know you and the other posters in this board by reading your posts. In the SAME manner, I know Jesus by what the Bible says about him or what Jesus himself says about himself as recorded in the Bible.

Jesus says he is a MAN (John 8:40) and the Father is the ONLY true God (John 17:3). That's why I KNOW Jesus is NOT God.

John writes: \"Now by this we KNOW him (Jesus), if we KEEP his COMMANDMENTS. He who says, 'I know him.' and does NOT keep his COMMANDMENTS, is a LIAR, and the TRUTH is NOT in him\" (1 John 2:3-4).

I am \"in UNION\" with Christ in a SPIRITUAL sense since I am his BODY (1 Cor. 12:27) and he is the HEAD. (Col. 1:18).

And since Jesus is the SAVIOR of the BODY or CHURCH (Eph. 5:23) where I am an \"individual member\" (Rom. 12:4-5; 1 Cor. 12:27), I MUST \"endure until the end\" (Matt. 24:13) - end of my natural life or end of the world (2 Peter 3:7, 10).

Ed[/color]

Ed,
At first I thought you might be one of the Oneness Pentacostals, but they believe that Jesus is God, the only God, with the explanation of the Trinity as being the worship of THREE GODS...well,YIKES!!!                           We are more or less all into idolatry according to that way of thinking.Always amazes me when people think they know what someone else believes.
You said there's no such thing as worshipping a doctrine.
Look up the definitions of worship and I'm sure you can find that many indeed put their particular doctrine or organization ahead of God. To me, that is a form of worship.

QuoteI CANNOT know Jesus \"in a personal way\" kate because he is in heaven and I am on earth much as I don't know you or anyone in this board in a \"personal way.\"

But I know you and the other posters in this board by reading your posts. In the SAME manner, I know Jesus by what the Bible says about him or what Jesus himself says about himself as recorded in the Bible.

You haven't had us expose our thoughts and love for you over a six thousand year period, either.  If we had that much time, you would know us pretty well.  If we loved you enough, to give our lives for you, or sacrifice the life of our child for you, you'd feel a lot closer to knowing us too. What does knowing someone really mean.  The idea that you have to physically see, touch, hear someone to actually know them, is false IMO.
When God tells those to depart, that He never knew them, doesn't mean that it's because they were the ones who never physically saw, touched,or heard God.
People live together daily for years and sadly never really know each other, personally. Knowing someone has to do with vulnerability.  Jesus became a servant and yeilded death on the cruel cross and it was an act of love.
I'm sorry if you don't feel that personal connection to our Lord. I do.
Paul met the Lord in a vision after Jesus' resurecction, yet Paul speaks of his own love for God.
I am not saying this to try to sound all lovey-dovey, but there are Christians the world over that I love, even tho I've never met them. I'm sure you must love other Christians too....sight unseen   Does a man hate his own body?  We are the body of Christ....Christ is our HEAD,
I LOVE my HEAD!!!!!
Kat[/color]

Hello Kate
And welcome. You mentioned that Jesus is your true sabbath  rest. Can ya show me scripture to back this up? If you cannot find scripture to back this up but find scripture to the contrary, will you turn to the true path? Theres only one way. The scriptures will open the door. Are you knocking?

Kate
Its kinda easy to love your body. Do you love your enemies?

Quote

QuoteYou said there's no such thing as worshipping a doctrine. Look up the definitions of worship and I'm sure you can find that many indeed put their particular doctrine or organization ahead of God. To me, that is a form of worship.

Well, if you want to put it that way, so be it. But when \"one puts his particular doctrine or organization ahead of God,\" that only means that he does NOT love God. \"For this is the LOVE of God, that we KEEP His COMMANDMENTS. And His COMMANDMENTS are NOT burdensome\" (1 John 5:3).

Quote

QuoteI CANNOT know Jesus \"in a personal way\" kate because he is in heaven and I am on earth much as I don't know you or anyone in this board in a \"personal way.\"

But I know you and the other posters in this board by reading your posts. In the SAME manner, I know Jesus by what the Bible says about him or what Jesus himself says about himself as recorded in the Bible.

The idea that you have to physically see, touch, hear someone to actually know them, is false IMO.

To \"actually know you\" is DIFFERENT from \"knowing you in a personal way.\" As I said in my earlier post, I CANNOT know Jesus in a \"personal way.\"

But the Bible teaches that to \"actually know Jesus\" is to KEEP his COMMANDMENTS\" (1 John 2:3). \"He who says, 'I know him' and does NOT keep his commandments, is a LIAR, and the TRUTH is NOT in him\" (1 John 2:4).

And of course, one who says, \"I know him in a personal way\" and does NOT obey his teaching is a LIAR, and the TRUTH is NOT in him.

QuoteWhen God tells those to depart, that He never knew them, doesn't mean that it's because they were the ones who never physically saw, touched,or heard God.

It was NOT God who said \"I never knew you. Depart from me\" kate. It was Jesus who said this and Jesus says he is a MAN (John 8:40). Of course, it does not mean that Jesus NEVER knew them because they never physically saw, touched or heard Jesus.

Jesus NEVER knew them because they did NOT obey his doctrine or teaching to \"DO the WILL of the Father in heaven\" (Matt. 7:21).

QuotePeople live together daily for years and sadly never really know each other, personally.

Then, how can one know Jesus in a \"personal way\" when people who live together for years never really know each other personlly? How do you do it kate?

QuoteKnowing someone has to do with vulnerability.

Please explain what you mean kate.

QuoteJesus became a servant and yeilded death on the cruel cross and it was an act of love.

Jesus died on the cross as an \"act of humility and obedience to the point of death\" (Phil. 2:8). This is the mind of Jesus that TRUE Christians are supposed to emulate (Phil. 2:5).

QuoteI'm sorry if you don't feel that personal connection to our Lord. I do.

How do you show your personal connection to Jesus kate? Do you BELIEVE what Jesus said to the Father, \"...that they may know YOU, the ONLY true God and Jesus Christ whom YOU have SENT\" (John 17:3)? Do you BELIEVE Jesus when he said that he is a MAN (John 8:40)?

QuotePaul met the Lord in a vision after Jesus' resurecction, yet Paul speaks of his own love for God.

Did apostle Paul love God in a \"personal way?\" NO kate. Paul loved God by OBEYING His COMMANDMENTS.

QuoteI am not saying this to try to sound all lovey-dovey, but there are Christians the world over that I love, even tho I've never met them. I'm sure you must love other Christians too....sight unseen  ??? Does a man hate his own body?  We are the body of Christ....Christ is our HEAD,
I LOVE my HEAD!!!!!

kate, do you know that you sound like a spoiled teenager who says \"I love you\" to his mom and dad and comes home 5 hours past curfew? I'm sad to say that for people in the world, the word \"love\" means NOTHING!

If you TRULY love Jesus, you SHOULD start BELIEVING him and STOP calling him God because he says he is a MAN (John 8:40) and the Father is the ONLY true God (John 17:3).

Ed[/color]

Quotekate, do you know that you sound like a spoiled teenager who says \"I love you\" to his mom and dad and comes home 5 hours past curfew?

Okay, Ed....does this mean the honeymoon is over??? :p

No, Oxy, I can't give you a scripture that says \"Jesus is the Sabbath\", it's a matter of the purpose of the Sabbath(rest) see Matthew 11:28...I'm sure you already know it.
Hebrews chapter 4 speaks of entering His rest. I don't think it 's speaking of a day, because it says it's by faith...it doesn't take any faith to keep the Sabbath in a legalistic way, IMO.

Quote
Kate
Its kinda easy to love your body. Do you love your enemies?

I feel that I do, however I feel that I could do better....have that tendency to get angry at the Jeffery Dalmers of the world :(  Do you feel that you've reached that level of love that Jesus had??? Do you think anyone has?

Quote
Did apostle Paul love God in a \"personal way?\" NO kate. Paul loved God by OBEYING His COMMANDMENTS.

Agreed that Paul loved God and obeyed His commandments, but how do you KNOW he didn't love Him personally? HMMM???

Just wondering...
Kate[/color]

Quote

Quote

Quotekate, do you know that you sound like a spoiled teenager who says \"I love you\" to his mom and dad and comes home 5 hours past curfew?

Okay, Ed....does this mean the honeymoon is over??? :p

Not to me kate. You see, when you love someone, you must DO the things he says. This was what the Lord Jesus says: \"But why do you call me, 'Lord, Lord' and do NOT do the things I say\" (Luke 6:46). Also, when you love someone, you must NOT be afraid to tell that someone what is right and what is wrong - for his or her own good.

QuoteNo, Oxy, I can't give you a scripture that says \"Jesus is the Sabbath\", it's a matter of the purpose of the Sabbath(rest) see Matthew 11:28...I'm sure you already know it.
Hebrews chapter 4 speaks of entering His rest. I don't think it 's speaking of a day, because it says it's by faith...it doesn't take any faith to keep the Sabbath in a legalistic way, IMO.[/quoye]

kate, when we talk of OBSERVING the Sabbath, it refers to the seventh day of the week which God COMMANDED the Israelites to observe by NOT doing ANY work.

And when we talk of \"entering His rest\" we refer to Rev. 14:13where it says: \"Then I heard a voice from heaven saying to me, 'Write: Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on. Yes, says the Spirit, that they may REST from their labors, and their works follow them.\"

QuoteDid apostle Paul love God in a \"personal way?\" NO kate. Paul loved God by OBEYING His COMMANDMENTS.

Agreed that Paul loved God and obeyed His commandments, but how do you KNOW he didn't love Him personally? HMMM???

Just wondering...
Kate

The same way that you don't know that Paul loved God in a \"personal way\" kate. We only know what is WRITTEN in the Bible kate. Everything else is OPINION or SPECULATION.

Ed[/color]

Hi Kate
As to Matt.11, youll find on page 11 of this thread scriptures explaining when this \"rest\" begins. Can you find scriptures that say this rest with Jesus has already begun?

Also you implied that it doesnt take faith to keep the sabbath legally. Does it take faith to try and keep it illegally?

QuoteAlso you implied that it doesnt take faith to keep the sabbath legally. Does it take faith to try and keep it illegally?

Romans 13:8-14
I probably didn't imply  that it doesn't take faith to keep the Sabbath in a legalistic way....Just said it right out. It does take a resolve to keep your eye on the sun, from sunset to sunset...instead of the SON.
Understand, I don't have a problem with Sabbath keepers.
We live near a college community of SDAs. I've worked with them and for them. Wonderful people, at least the ones I've known and really into the Sabbath keeping, but
I don't agree with them on this point, preferring to be judged by the law of liberty James 2: 8-12

Kate[/color]

Yeah Kate
Me to. THE PERFECT LAW OF LIBERTY. And you are correct. You will be judged by this law.

JAMES 1  [22] But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.[23] For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass:[24] For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was.[25] But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.

The perfect law of liberty. Blessed be the man that be a doer of the work. Work??? Is that a bad word Kate?

JAMES 2  [9] But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors. [10] For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.[11] For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.[12] So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.

Do not commit adultry, do not kill (the 10 commandments) and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty. Keep ALL 10. Ya practice to break one, your guilty of all, right James? You are a transgressor. Do you keep Gods day of rest Kate (the sabbath) or do you keep mans day of rest?

PSALM 119  [42] So shall I have wherewith to answer him that reproacheth me: for I trust in thy word.[43] And take not the word of truth utterly out of my mouth; for I have hoped in thy judgments.[44] So shall I keep thy law continually for ever and ever.[45] And I will walk at liberty: for I seek thy precepts.[46] I will speak of thy testimonies also before kings, and will not be ashamed.[47] And I will delight myself in thy commandments, which I have loved.

So shall I keep thy law continually AND delight myself in thy commandments and WILL WALK AT LIBERTY. That cant be misinterpreted

JOHN 8  [33] They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free? [34] Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin. [35] And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever. [36] If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.

AINT THE WORD OF GOD GREAT KATE

DEUT.13  [3] Thou shalt not hearken unto the words of that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams: for the LORD your God proveth you, to know whether ye love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul.[4] Ye shall walk after the LORD your God, and fear him, and keep his commandments, and obey his voice, and ye shall serve him, and cleave unto him.[5] And that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams, shall be put to death; because he hath spoken to turn you away from the LORD your God, which brought you out of the land of Egypt, and redeemed you out of the house of bondage, to thrust thee out of the way which the LORD thy God commanded thee to walk in. So shalt thou put the evil away from the midst of thee.

You have been redeemed of the house of bondage (sin). So walk after your God, and keep His commandments. Kate, the bondage is sin. Keep His commandments and follow the perfect law of liberty.

Ya got \"fear\" of the Lord Kate

MATTHEW 15 [8] This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me. [9] But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

Sooo.. who are theses guys?

ISAIAH 29 [13] Wherefore the Lord said, Forasmuch as this people draw near me with their mouth, and with their lips do honour me, but have removed their heart far from me, and their fear toward me is taught by the precept of men:

So who are these people who say they believe in the Lord and honor the Lord with their words but because they "fear not

Hi Kate
Ya got Gods Holy Spirit?

JOHN 14 [15] If ye love me, keep my commandments.[16] And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;[17] Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.[18] I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.[19] Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.[20] At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.[21] He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

In order to receive the Holy Spirit we must keep Gods 10 commandments. What about the 4th Kate? Or do you think that your someone special? You can ignore the scriptures and recieve the Holy Spirit without first keeping the commandments.

2COR.11[3] But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.[4] For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted,ye might well bear with him.

Be careful. Dont believe what youve been taught by the words of man. \"Many will come in my name\" Believe the scriptures. Dont be decieved.

ACTS 5   [29] Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men.[30] The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew and hanged on a tree.[31] Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.[32] And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.

The Holy Ghost is given to them that obey. So how do we obey God in order to receive the Holy Spirit?

DEUT.27 [10] Thou shalt therefore obey the voice of the LORD thy God, and do his commandments and his statutes, which I command thee this day.

Obey GOD and do his commandments. The \"voice\". Look into the Day of the Lord scriptures Kate. The \"voice\" will be there.

2 TIM. 3 [14] But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them; [15] And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. [16] All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: [17] That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

Somethin to think about. In the above scripture it says from a child thou has know the holy scriptures that are able to make you wise unto salvation. The only scriptures around when these people were children were the scriptures from the old testament. Dont throw the baby out with the bath water.

Kate you mentioned that you want to be judged by the law of liberty? Heres that law.

REV.14  [9] And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,[10] The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God,which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:

above scripture    sign – hand - forehead (between the eyes) cup of indignation

below scriptures   sign – hand - between thine eyes (forehead) the LORDS LAW

EXOD.13  [9] And it shall be for a sign unto thee upon thine hand, and for a memorial between thine eyes, that the LORD's law may be in thy mouth: for with a strong hand hath the LORD brought thee out of Egypt.

DEUT.6 [2] That thou mightest fear the LORD thy God, to keep all his statutes and his commandments, which I command thee, thou, and thy son, and thy son's son, all the days of thy life; and that thy days may be prolonged.[8] And thou shalt bind them for a sign upon thine hand, and they shall be as frontlets between thine eyes.[9] And thou shalt write them upon the posts of thy house, and on thy gates

JAMES 5 [7] Be patient therefore, brethren, unto the coming of the Lord. Behold, the husbandman waiteth for the precious fruit of the earth, and hath long patience for it, until he receive the early and latter rain.[8] Be ye also patient; stablish your hearts: for the coming of the Lord draweth nigh.

Until you receive the early and latter rain? Whats that mean and what must you do to receive these rains? Anything to do with which "mark

Will you sing the song of Moses Kate? Will you defeat the beast?

REVELATION 15 [2] And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire: and THEM THAT HAD GOTTEN THE VICTORY OVER THE BEAST, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God.[3] And they SING THE SONG OF MOSES the servant of God, and the song of the Lamb, saying, Great and marvellous are thy works, Lord God Almighty; just and true are thy ways, thou King of saints.[4] Who shall not fear thee, O Lord, and glorify thy name? for thou only art holy: for all nations shall come and worship before thee; for thy judgments are made manifest.

The above scripture says that those who do get victory over the beast will "sing the song of Moses

Hi Kate
Sometimes i will go on and on. Its only cause my puter is working good at the time. Most of the time it works real, real slow. Seems to be working well tonight.

PSALMS 119  [109] My soul is continually in my hand: yet do I not forget thy law.[110] The wicked have laid a snare for me: yet I erred not from thy precepts.[111] Thy testimonies have I taken as an heritage for ever: for they are the rejoicing of my heart.[112] I have inclined mine heart to perform thy statutes alway, even unto the end.[113] I hate vain thoughts: but thy law do I love.[114] Thou art my hiding place and my shield: I hope in thy word.[115] Depart from me, ye evildoers: for i will keep the commandments of my God.[116] Uphold me according unto thy word, that I may live: and let me not be ashamed of my hope.

Blessed hope? Depart from me, ye evildoers: for I will keep the commandments of my God. EVEN UNTIL THE END.

MATT.7  [22] Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?[23] And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Seems there will be many people who will be saying "I believe

Quote

Quote1JOHN2 [3] And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.[4] He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.[5] But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.

oxymoron,

Do you really know God? Do you really keep His commandments?

In Matthew 17:5 we read: \"While he was still speaking, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them; and suddenly a voice came out of the cloud, saying, 'This is my beloved Son in whom I am well pleased. Hear him!.\"

Isn't it a COMMANDMENT of God to LISTEN to Jesus? Do you LISTEN to Jesus oxymoron?

Jesus SAID: \"....Therefore, it is LAWFUL to DO good on a Sabbath\" (Matt. 12:12). Under the Old Testament Law, God PROHIBITED \"doing ANY work\" (Exo. 20:10; 31:15).

Is driving a taxi on Sabbath to put food on the table \"doing GOOD work\" or not? Is healing the sick on Sabbath \"doing GOOD work\" or not? The apostles \"gathered food on a Sabbath\" (Matt. 12:1).

Jesus did NOT reproach them. But I believe you would, wouldn't you?

Ed[/color]

Quoteoxymoron:
So there are a people that say "they believe