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No way that could be a good song to use to meditate on the thought that we are all dead in our sins without Christ's intervention -- and that we can't demand anything of Him on our own terms?

Quote from: janine on Mon Sep 10, 2007 - 04:28:34
No way that could be a good song to use to meditate on the thought that we are all dead in our sins without Christ's intervention -- and that we can't demand anything of Him on our own terms?

Only if you like to put forth that which is bitter for sweet (Isa 5:20).

"I'm the man in the box: Buried in my sh**: Won't you come and save me, save me... Feed my eyes, can you sew them shut? Jesus Christ, deny your maker: He who tries, will be wasted: Feed my eyes now you've sewn them shut"

~Alice In Chains suggesting the futility of faith in - Man in the Box

Quote from: James Rondon on Sun Sep 09, 2007 - 21:59:41
If those of us who name the name of Christ only had conviction like those who were in Ephesus:

"... And this was known to all the Jews and Greeks also dwelling at Ephesus; and fear fell on them all, and the name of the Lord Jesus was magnified. And many that believed came, and confessed, and shewed their deeds. Many of them also which used curious arts brought their books together, and burned them before all men: and they counted the price of them, and found it fifty thousand pieces of silver. So mightily grew the word of God and prevailed." ~ Acts 19:17-20

Actually many do have a conviction. That's why they argue this topic so much(as I have seen to go on in past threads about music). They don't want to give that up, that's why they don't want the truth about it. If they know the truth, they now have to make a choice.

Quote from: janine on Mon Sep 10, 2007 - 00:41:38
No, but it does tell me some folks witch-hunt.

Some folks have no imagination.

About having an imagination, God never says it is wrong to have an imagination, but it must be a sanctified imagination if it is pleasing to God. 2nd Corinthians10:5 says to cast down imaginations that exalt itself above the knowledge of God. It is ungodly imaginations as you see in much of the music industry today. Romans12:9 says to abhor what is evil abnd cleave to what is good. God wants us to get rid of evil things. That's why Ephesians5:11 says to have no fellwoship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather expose them.

Hebrews10:22 says "Let us draw near with a pure heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience." God wants us to have a pure heart and for us to be cleansed from an evil conscience. Listening to music with sexual perversion, music that glorifies drug and alcohol abuse, music that glorifies Satan and demons, is wicked in the sight of the Lord ad we are to not associate ourselves with it. Jesus says if you love Me, keep My commandments(John14:14). If we truly love God, then we wouldn't want to listen to music that goes contrary to His righteousness and truth. 1st Peter1:16 says to be holy as God is holy. Much of the music out there is the total opposite of holy.

Oh, there's nobody here that is on a witch hunt. The truth is though, there are quite a few people that are into witchcraft and the occult. Many in the music industry serve Satan. Of course, most people that are into the occult don't just tell people that. That is why we need to discern. Hebrews5:14 mentions of discerning good from evil. That includes what music we listen to or what we watch on TV.

Quote
Some folks look at "Sympathy for the Devil" and see a glorification of Satan.  I see a catalog of the ways it seems Satan has tried to warp and destroy Man -- and ultimately, yet again, failed, every time.

The song's title being "Sympathy for the Devil" speaks for itself. How can anyone have any sympathy for him? He's the enemy of our souls. By giving him sympathy, your glorifying him.

Umm...

I think this thread has crossed the line.  It is one thing to point out the evil contained within lyrics that we may not pick up on, but to almost revel in the filth by posting all the lurid words seems a bit over the top.  I have worked in the field of social work for years and many people I've worked with like to 'out do' each other by sharing war stories about the outrageous behavior of clients they worked with in the past - it is not helpful, and I think it is wrong.

For example, I purposely chose not to post the lyrics from "Man in the Box" because I thought it was unnecessary and inappropriate - apparently csloan does not share my opinion.

I think somewhere alone the way, this thread has crossed the line from cautionary, to war story.  I am probably sounding judgmental and I am not trying to do so - the thread started with good intention.   

blessings

Quote from: ravenlorre on Mon Sep 10, 2007 - 03:50:04


Truly, the worst song written in the past 20 years that is still played regularly on the radio.

If a song like that can be played on the radio, that shows how desensitized our society is. There are young children listening to the radio, yet they can play something with such lurid words that would inappropriate to lyrics in a public forum?

Quote from: ravenlorre on Mon Sep 10, 2007 - 12:36:14
Umm...

I think this thread has crossed the line.  It is one thing to point out the evil contained within lyrics that we may not pick up on, but to almost revel in the filth by posting all the lurid words seems a bit over the top.  I have worked in the field of social work for years and many people I've worked with like to 'out do' each other by sharing war stories about the outrageous behavior of clients they worked with in the past - it is not helpful, and I think it is wrong.

For example, I purposely chose not to post the lyrics from "Man in the Box" because I thought it was unnecessary and inappropriate - apparently csloan does not share my opinion.

I think somewhere alone the way, this thread has crossed the line from cautionary, to war story.  I am probably sounding judgmental and I am not trying to do so - the thread started with good intention.  

blessings

My intentions were what started the thread. I have posted nothing vulgar or any profanity, I am doing just as I stated, exposing the blasphemy of the music the world listens to today.

If you feel this is disturbing to read, forgive me. But what I find more disturbing is Christians would listen to and actually defend this kind of filth. So what really crosses the line: exposing it, or embracing it?

Quote from: CSloan on Mon Sep 10, 2007 - 12:47:13

Quote from: ravenlorre on Mon Sep 10, 2007 - 12:36:14
Umm...

I think this thread has crossed the line.  It is one thing to point out the evil contained within lyrics that we may not pick up on, but to almost revel in the filth by posting all the lurid words seems a bit over the top.  I have worked in the field of social work for years and many people I've worked with like to 'out do' each other by sharing war stories about the outrageous behavior of clients they worked with in the past - it is not helpful, and I think it is wrong.

For example, I purposely chose not to post the lyrics from "Man in the Box" because I thought it was unnecessary and inappropriate - apparently csloan does not share my opinion.

I think somewhere alone the way, this thread has crossed the line from cautionary, to war story.  I am probably sounding judgmental and I am not trying to do so - the thread started with good intention.   

blessings

My intentions were what started the thread. I have posted nothing vulgar or any profanity, I am doing just as I stated, exposing the blasphemy of the music the world listens to today.

If you feel this is disturbing to read, forgive me. But what I find more disturbing is Christians would listen to and actually defend this kind of filth. So what really crosses the line: exposing it, or embracing it?

I understand your intentions and I really do agree with your point about the danger of Christians defending evil within lyrics, either intentionally or unintentionally; however, I think one can go too far when making a point and end up doing damage, as well.  I do not believe the ends justify the means.

In this case, there are many Christians who make a point to avoid music that contains evil lyrics - could the detail posted on this thread, expose people unnecessarily? 

blessings

Quote from: the J Man on Mon Sep 10, 2007 - 12:44:18

Quote from: ravenlorre on Mon Sep 10, 2007 - 03:50:04


Truly, the worst song written in the past 20 years that is still played regularly on the radio.

If a song like that can be played on the radio, that shows how desensitized our society is. There are young children listening to the radio, yet they can play something with such lurid words that would inappropriate to lyrics in a public forum?

I agree - it is really horrible.

Quote from: ravenlorre on Mon Sep 10, 2007 - 12:59:52

Quote from: CSloan on Mon Sep 10, 2007 - 12:47:13

Quote from: ravenlorre on Mon Sep 10, 2007 - 12:36:14
Umm...

I think this thread has crossed the line.  It is one thing to point out the evil contained within lyrics that we may not pick up on, but to almost revel in the filth by posting all the lurid words seems a bit over the top.  I have worked in the field of social work for years and many people I've worked with like to 'out do' each other by sharing war stories about the outrageous behavior of clients they worked with in the past - it is not helpful, and I think it is wrong.

For example, I purposely chose not to post the lyrics from "Man in the Box" because I thought it was unnecessary and inappropriate - apparently csloan does not share my opinion.

I think somewhere alone the way, this thread has crossed the line from cautionary, to war story.  I am probably sounding judgmental and I am not trying to do so - the thread started with good intention.  

blessings

My intentions were what started the thread. I have posted nothing vulgar or any profanity, I am doing just as I stated, exposing the blasphemy of the music the world listens to today.

If you feel this is disturbing to read, forgive me. But what I find more disturbing is Christians would listen to and actually defend this kind of filth. So what really crosses the line: exposing it, or embracing it?

I understand your intentions and I really do agree with your point about the danger of Christians defending evil within lyrics, either intentionally or unintentionally; however, I think one can go too far when making a point and end up doing damage, as well.  I do not believe the ends justify the means.

In this case, there are many Christians who make a point to avoid music that contains evil lyrics - could the detail posted on this thread, expose people unnecessarily? 

blessings

This was already mentioned, but the bible exhorts us to expose them.

Eph 5:11
And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather expose them.

QuoteThis was already mentioned, but the bible exhorts us to expose them.

Eph 5:11
And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather expose them.

Well, everyone better stand back! it's time to throw caution to the wind - apparently when lies need to be exposed, casualties do not matter.

The practice of recklessly disregarding people under the guise of rooting out evil or possessing truth in it's purist form is an ugly side of Christianity.

By all means, joust on......I will simply excuse myself from the discussion.

blessings

Farewell, and thank you for your contributions to the discussion.

Isn't this thread a bit like posting pornography so people will know what magazines not to buy?  I wonder why these aren't the passages being quoted here...

"I will set before my eyes no vile thing. The deeds of faithless men I hate; they will not cling to me." Ps. 101:3

"Have nothing to do with the fruitless deeds of darkness, but rather expose them.  For it is shameful even to mention what the disobedient do in secret."  Eph. 5:11-12

"Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable--if anything is excellent or praiseworthy--think about such things. Whatever you have learned or received or heard from me, or seen in me--put it into practice. And the God of peace will be with you."  Phil. 4:8-9



I get making people aware of the fact that many lyrics are ungodly.  I do get concerned with a people start spending their time trying to dig up said lyrics.  All that mess is getting deeper into your head, no matter why you're reading it.  I prefer not to let it in in the first place.  Why give Satan and extra foothold?

Its a shame that when something like this is posted, the message and messenger is attacked. Reminds me of the prophets of old: they would preach to God's people telling them to repent; then they would go about to slay them. 

1Ki 19:10, 14
And he said, I have been very jealous for the LORD God of hosts: because the children of Israel have forsaken thy covenant, thrown down thine altars, and slain thy prophets with the sword; and I, even I only, am left; and they seek my life, to take it away.  

Quote from: jmg3rd on Mon Sep 10, 2007 - 14:03:10
Isn't this thread a bit like posting pornography so people will know what magazines not to buy?  I wonder why these aren't the passages being quoted here...

The difference is, people already know that pornography is bad. Even those who play around with it, know deep in their hearts, porn is immoral and sinful. Much of the music out there, is subtle. If not exposed to you, you wouldn't know what your really listening to. For example, I would have never known that U2 has lyrics that glorify Satan, afterall, they use biblical imagery. I would have never known that there is sexual perversion amongst groups like the Backstreet Boys or the Spice Girls.

You still don't really know that about U2, without context.  As to your last comment, I'm assuming you're kidding.

Both of the U2 songs that were cited on this thread are great songs, imo.  Neither 'glorify Satan' or any such nonsense as that.  Unfortunately, when a person has an agenda and believes himself to always be right, context takes a backseat. 

'Wake Up Dead Man' is a moving song in which the world-weary speaker pleads for Jesus to do something to straighten out the world, which the speaker sees as corrupt and evil.  The speaker is beginning to lose hope and faith and cries out to God.  A later U2 song, 'Peace on Earth' is something of a companion piece to 'Wake Up Dead Man.'

'Love Rescue Me' is quite similar in tone. 

Neither of these songs mock anything.  They are songs about the human condition.  It is unfortunate that witch hunts, such as the one promoted on this thread, seem to know no bounds.  It is also unfortunate that our schools, colleges, and universities have failed to adequately educate people on the usages of hyperbole and metaphor in art.  Further, it is sad that self-important posters with too much time on their hands see fit to attack anything and everything with which they disagree. 

Quote from: don has a plan on Mon Sep 10, 2007 - 15:55:56
Both of the U2 songs that were cited on this thread are great songs, imo.  Neither 'glorify Satan' or any such nonsense as that.  Unfortunately, when a person has an agenda and believes himself to always be right, context takes a backseat. 

'Wake Up Dead Man' is a moving song in which the world-weary speaker pleads for Jesus to do something to straighten out the world, which the speaker sees as corrupt and evil.  The speaker is beginning to lose hope and faith and cries out to God.  A later U2 song, 'Peace on Earth' is something of a companion piece to 'Wake Up Dead Man.'

'Love Rescue Me' is quite similar in tone. 

Neither of these songs mock anything.  They are songs about the human condition.  It is unfortunate that witch hunts, such as the one promoted on this thread, seem to know no bounds.  It is also unfortunate that our schools, colleges, and universities have failed to adequately educate people on the usages of hyperbole and metaphor in art.  Further, it is sad that self-important posters with too much time on their hands see fit to attack anything and everything with which they disagree. 

I am appalled you would defend such trash.

"Wake Up Dead Man" calls Jesus a dead man and "Love Rescue Me" curses the Lord. That is blasphemy. If you don't see that, there isn't much anyone can say to cure your blindness.

Quote from: don has a plan on Mon Sep 10, 2007 - 15:55:56
Both of the U2 songs that were cited on this thread are great songs, imo.  Neither 'glorify Satan' or any such nonsense as that.  Unfortunately, when a person has an agenda and believes himself to always be right, context takes a backseat. 

'Wake Up Dead Man' is a moving song in which the world-weary speaker pleads for Jesus to do something to straighten out the world, which the speaker sees as corrupt and evil.  The speaker is beginning to lose hope and faith and cries out to God.  A later U2 song, 'Peace on Earth' is something of a companion piece to 'Wake Up Dead Man.'

'Love Rescue Me' is quite similar in tone. 

Neither of these songs mock anything.  They are songs about the human condition.  It is unfortunate that witch hunts, such as the one promoted on this thread, seem to know no bounds.  It is also unfortunate that our schools, colleges, and universities have failed to adequately educate people on the usages of hyperbole and metaphor in art.  Further, it is sad that self-important posters with too much time on their hands see fit to attack anything and everything with which they disagree. 

A  song's own lyrics speak for itself. 

Quote from: the J Man on Mon Sep 10, 2007 - 18:38:02
A  song's own lyrics speak for itself. 

Indeed.

Quote from: don has a plan on Mon Sep 10, 2007 - 15:55:56
It is unfortunate that witch hunts, such as the one promoted on this thread, seem to know no bounds.

We can pull her out of the air, take her broom away, and send her to a TV makeover... But she's still a witch.

Quote from: James Rondon on Mon Sep 10, 2007 - 20:56:29

Quote from: don has a plan on Mon Sep 10, 2007 - 15:55:56
It is unfortunate that witch hunts, such as the one promoted on this thread, seem to know no bounds.

We can pull her out of the air, take her broom away, and send her to a TV makeover... But she's still a witch.

yikes....

Quote from: ravenlorre on Mon Sep 10, 2007 - 21:00:55

Quote from: James Rondon on Mon Sep 10, 2007 - 20:56:29

Quote from: don has a plan on Mon Sep 10, 2007 - 15:55:56
It is unfortunate that witch hunts, such as the one promoted on this thread, seem to know no bounds.

We can pull her out of the air, take her broom away, and send her to a TV makeover... But she's still a witch.

yikes....

Another Hillary thread?  I thought they were supposed to be in Politics.

Quote from: Gary on Mon Sep 10, 2007 - 21:04:17

Quote from: ravenlorre on Mon Sep 10, 2007 - 21:00:55

Quote from: James Rondon on Mon Sep 10, 2007 - 20:56:29

Quote from: don has a plan on Mon Sep 10, 2007 - 15:55:56
It is unfortunate that witch hunts, such as the one promoted on this thread, seem to know no bounds.

We can pull her out of the air, take her broom away, and send her to a TV makeover... But she's still a witch.

yikes....

Another Hillary thread?  I thought they were supposed to be in Politics.

Hillary for President!

Quote from: ravenlorre on Mon Sep 10, 2007 - 21:05:41

Quote from: Gary on Mon Sep 10, 2007 - 21:04:17

Quote from: ravenlorre on Mon Sep 10, 2007 - 21:00:55

Quote from: James Rondon on Mon Sep 10, 2007 - 20:56:29

Quote from: don has a plan on Mon Sep 10, 2007 - 15:55:56
It is unfortunate that witch hunts, such as the one promoted on this thread, seem to know no bounds.

We can pull her out of the air, take her broom away, and send her to a TV makeover... But she's still a witch.

yikes....

Another Hillary thread?  I thought they were supposed to be in Politics.

Hillary for President!

You have proven James's point

Quote from: CSloan on Mon Sep 10, 2007 - 14:38:03
Its a shame that when something like this is posted, the message and messenger is attacked. Reminds me of the prophets of old: they would preach to God's people telling them to repent; then they would go about to slay them. 

1Ki 19:10, 14
And he said, I have been very jealous for the LORD God of hosts: because the children of Israel have forsaken thy covenant, thrown down thine altars, and slain thy prophets with the sword; and I, even I only, am left; and they seek my life, to take it away.  

Attack?  That's laughable, CSloan.  You've not experienced anything like an attack in this thread.

Jesus was a dead man.  He knows death intimately.  Who better could a beaten broken person, who is dead in this dead world, and who sees the whole world as messed up and dead, call out to?

I know full well there are evil people who write evil songs -- not because I know and can condemn ever so many evil people and evil songs, but because I know there is evil in the world and sometimes people fall into it.  There are evil bus drivers and evil eaters of Twinkies as well as evil writers and singers of songs.

All people trapped in evil ways will emit evil in what they do.  Yes, yes, yes, <Janine pats several people on this thread consolingly on their sweaty little foreheads...>, I understand and agree with that.  Choke back your high blood pressure a little, people, that purple vein pulsing on your forehead clashes with your tie.

The point I am trying to make is this --

Not every time you see or hear a piece of art that calls up bad imagery for you, is that piece of art "evil".

I think sometimes y'all just ain't picking up on some elements of interpretation and style -- things like

hyperbole

metaphor

irony

sarcasm

satire

emphasis

use of aural (or visual) textures

evocative harkings-back to cultural/historical touchpoints...

And on and on.

I say again -- I know, absolutely, that there is evil in the world, so it is not a far stretch to say an artist might be evil, and living out his evil ways in his art, in some kind of effort to honor his evil Lord, and encourage others to adhere to the evil.  I understand this. 

What I am saying is, not every time something trips your personal "Blas-Foe-Meter" amounts to blasphemy.

Quote from: CSloan on Mon Sep 10, 2007 - 16:04:57

Quote from: don has a plan on Mon Sep 10, 2007 - 15:55:56
Both of the U2 songs that were cited on this thread are great songs, imo.  Neither 'glorify Satan' or any such nonsense as that.  Unfortunately, when a person has an agenda and believes himself to always be right, context takes a backseat. 

'Wake Up Dead Man' is a moving song in which the world-weary speaker pleads for Jesus to do something to straighten out the world, which the speaker sees as corrupt and evil.  The speaker is beginning to lose hope and faith and cries out to God.  A later U2 song, 'Peace on Earth' is something of a companion piece to 'Wake Up Dead Man.'

'Love Rescue Me' is quite similar in tone. 

Neither of these songs mock anything.  They are songs about the human condition.  It is unfortunate that witch hunts, such as the one promoted on this thread, seem to know no bounds.  It is also unfortunate that our schools, colleges, and universities have failed to adequately educate people on the usages of hyperbole and metaphor in art.  Further, it is sad that self-important posters with too much time on their hands see fit to attack anything and everything with which they disagree. 

I am appalled you would defend such trash.

"Wake Up Dead Man" calls Jesus a dead man and "Love Rescue Me" curses the Lord. That is blasphemy. If you don't see that, there isn't much anyone can say to cure your blindness.

Then you'll just have to be appalled.  I personally could not care less.

I'm sure we'll all be a better church and a better society when they ban all that howwible ol' secular music and the only thing we ever hear is the religious music wafting down from the high speakers of the religious buildings.

Kinda like in some Islamic areas.

Quote from: janine on Tue Sep 11, 2007 - 09:38:34
I'm sure we'll all be a better church and a better society when they ban all that howwible ol' secular music and the only thing we ever hear is the religious music wafting down from the high speakers of the religious buildings.

Kinda like in some Islamic areas.

Why have you turned this into a mocking of what is good, and the defense of what is clearly evil?

Have you been so calloused by the world that your discernment has turned you to scorn?

What have you listed that is 'good'?  Honestly, I have not come across one positive thing written by you on any of the boards on this site.  Everything you write is negative, negative, negative, critical, critical, critical.  Perhaps you could actually give an example of something that meets your personal criteria of 'good'.  We know it's not rock music, Catholicism, or voting.

Quote from: CSloan on Sun Sep 09, 2007 - 00:56:24
"I see faith in your eyes: Never your hear the discouraging lies: I hear faith in your cries: Broken is the promise, betrayal: The healing hand held back by the deepened nail: Follow the god that failed"

~Metallica mocking the crucifixion in - The God That Failed

Not mocking the crucifixion, but his Christian Science upbringing.

Quote from: CSloan on Sun Sep 09, 2007 - 08:41:46
"Angel from below, change my dreams: I want for glory's hour, for wealth's esteem: I wish to sell my soul, to be reborn: I wish for earthly riches, don't want no crown of thorns: I was born a fool, don't want to stay that way: Devil take my soul, with diamonds you repay: I don't care for heaven, so don't you look for me to cry: And I will burn in hell, from the day I die"

~Metallica explains just how they got so rich and famous in - The Prince

That song was written by Diamond Head not Metallica.  Metallica did a cover of that song.

Quote from: don has a plan on Tue Sep 11, 2007 - 10:37:45
What have you listed that is 'good'?  Honestly, I have not come across one positive thing written by you on any of the boards on this site.  Everything you write is negative, negative, negative, critical, critical, critical.  Perhaps you could actually give an example of something that meets your personal criteria of 'good'.  We know it's not rock music, Catholicism, or voting.

Matthew 19:17