Christian Forums

I only listen to showtunes. 

Quote from: Gary on Tue Jan 15, 2008 - 21:03:14
I only listen to showtunes. 

Give me some examples...

It's true.  He was whistling "I Feel Pretty" as he typed that.

Quote from: marc on Tue Jan 15, 2008 - 20:15:24
Oh good grief.

That silliness was proven to be such decades ago.

What silliness? And, proven by whom?...

If you have additional information, please post it. I, for one, am interested.

Quote from: Charles Sloan on Tue Jan 15, 2008 - 20:59:14
Many of us have been so exposed to this music before our conversion that we know the words by heart. Other are still listening to this music since they were converted, those are the people who need to not only see the evil of these lyrics but understand what they are really saying.

I guess what I said may have come across wrong.
I also used to listen to this type of music when I was younger. Now that i have 'found my way' I no longer listen to music that I feel is 'bad'.
I guess that I would feel that some people are beating a dead horse when it comes to this subject. I also feel that the people that listen to this music and KNOW what it is have basically sealed their own fate. The people that saw the error of their ways and have steered away from this have taken a big step in trying to repair the damage that they have caused themselves.

Quote from: James Rondon on Tue Jan 15, 2008 - 21:56:11

Quote from: marc on Tue Jan 15, 2008 - 20:15:24
Oh good grief.

That silliness was proven to be such decades ago.

What silliness? And, proven by whom?...

If you have additional information, please post it. I, for one, am interested.

The concept of back-masking has been disproven to the point that it's not even a question anymore.  I don't have the time at the moment, but there are old threads.  If you record something backward, it sounds like gobbledegook when played forward, not like an integral part of a song. 

I woudl guess that a google search will turn up the info.

These supposed backward messages tend to go into the "finding patterns where none exist" category. 

fwiw, one of my favorite groups, ELO, after being accused of back-masking included a few actual backward messages on their records to show what it would sound like if this was actually done.

Quote from: marc on Wed Jan 16, 2008 - 09:20:40The concept of back-masking has been disproven to the point that it's not even a question anymore.

I've never heard of this "proof", I would like to see it since I have found entire sites devoted to revealing intentional and unintentional backmasking.

http://www.backmaskonline.com/

"I am the bullgod...I am free...and I feed on all that is forsaken... I wanna flood the world with my twisted thoughts... Cause I'm the bullgod...you understand: The illegitimate son of man: The T-O-P to the D-O-G: Or the P-O-T to the G-O-D... Uh I'm gonna get you: I see through you: I'm gonna get you: I see through you"

~Kid Rock with his ode to the golden calf in 'I Am The Bullgod'

"God d*mn the way my pain swells: I spend all my time killin' brain cells: The light shed on me was a dim gleam: So I live life in a bottle of jim beam: Droppin' dots or sniffin' that blow"

~Kid Rock influences millions of kids in 'Killin Brain Cells'

"Role model, your mother-[expletive] H-E-R-O... Strapped with A-K's... Devil without a cause... The cool Kid's comin up to call you out, And I'm down with The Devil"

~Kid Rock makes a fine Satanic role model in 'Devil Without A Cause'

"Mama's too sweepy to hear you screamin in her ear (ma-maa!): That's why you can't get her to wake, but don't worry: Da-da made a nice bed for mommy at the bottom of the lake: Here, you wanna help da-da tie a rope around this rock? (yeah!): We'll tie it to her footsie then we'll roll her off the dock: Ready now, here we go, on the count of free.. One.. two.. free.. WHEEEEEE! (whoooooshhhhh) There goes mama, spwashin in the wa-ta: No more fightin wit dad, no more restraining order: No more step-da-da, no more new brother: Blow her kisses bye-bye, tell mama you love her (mommy!)"

~Marshall Mathers (Eminem) getting his baby daughter to help dispose of his wifes body in '97 Bonnie and Clyde'.

Nice...

"Cause I never knew I, knew I would get this big. I never knew I, knew I'd affect this kid. I never knew I'd, get him to slit his wrist. I never knew I'd, get him to hit this b*tch"

~Marshall Mathers (Eminem) mocks the influence he has on his listeners in 'Who Knew'

"I take each individual degenerates head and reach into it, just to see if he's influenced by me, if he listens to music, and if he feeds into this sh**, he's an innocent victim, and becomes a puppet on the string..."

~Marshall Mathers (Eminem) describes his motives in 'I'm Back'

"Follow me and do exactly what the song says: smoke weed, take pills, drop outta school, kill people and drink"

~Marshall Mathers (Eminem) calls the youth to follow him in his song 'Role Model'.

"I take seven [kids] from [columbine] and stand 'em all in line. Add an AK-47, a revolver, a nine, a Mac-11 and this ought to solve this problem of mine. And that's a whole school of bullies shot up all of the time, 'cause I'm Shady..."

~Marshall Mathers (Eminem) suggests killing more students at Columbine in 'I'm Back'.

Quote from: Charles Sloan on Wed Jan 16, 2008 - 10:10:58
"Mama's too sweepy to hear you screamin in her ear (ma-maa!): That's why you can't get her to wake, but don't worry: Da-da made a nice bed for mommy at the bottom of the lake: Here, you wanna help da-da tie a rope around this rock? (yeah!): We'll tie it to her footsie then we'll roll her off the dock: Ready now, here we go, on the count of free.. One.. two.. free.. WHEEEEEE! (whoooooshhhhh) There goes mama, spwashin in the wa-ta: No more fightin wit dad, no more restraining order: No more step-da-da, no more new brother: Blow her kisses bye-bye, tell mama you love her (mommy!)"

~Marshall Mathers (Eminem) getting his baby daughter to help dispose of his wifes body in '97 Bonnie and Clyde'.

Nice...

I had no idea there was a song out there like this one.  Scary thing is that there are two missing women in the area where I live, and both of their respective husbands are suspects in their disappearances.  Both women are believed to possibly be in the water someplace, and have yet to be found.   Makes me wonder if their husbands weren't fans of Eminem.     That is so sick that free speech is being abused in this manner with downright trashy music! 

Quote from: Charles Sloan on Wed Jan 16, 2008 - 09:27:16

Quote from: marc on Wed Jan 16, 2008 - 09:20:40The concept of back-masking has been disproven to the point that it's not even a question anymore.

I've never heard of this "proof", I would like to see it since I have found entire sites devoted to revealing intentional and unintentional backmasking.

http://www.backmaskonline.com/

You seriously need to learn to judge the credibility of your sources. 

Quote from: marc on Wed Jan 16, 2008 - 15:20:43

Quote from: Charles Sloan on Wed Jan 16, 2008 - 09:27:16

Quote from: marc on Wed Jan 16, 2008 - 09:20:40The concept of back-masking has been disproven to the point that it's not even a question anymore.

I've never heard of this "proof", I would like to see it since I have found entire sites devoted to revealing intentional and unintentional backmasking.

http://www.backmaskonline.com/

You seriously need to learn to judge the credibility of your sources. 

This isn't the only source, but please I adjure you to show me this credible source that disproves backmasking. I searched the web and found nothing, so I wonder to the credibility of your claim.

Unless you just are saying the skeptics are right, just because they say they are.

Bob Larson claimed that backmasking was placed on the records by demons.  It can't be created by normal means without sounding like nonsense (as had been proven by ELO and others), and he admitted this, thus coming up with his theory.  Do you agree?

Quote from: marc on Wed Jan 16, 2008 - 15:26:28
Bob Larson claimed that backmasking was placed on the records by demons.  It can't be created by normal means without sounding like nonsense (as had been proven by ELO and others), and he admitted this, thus coming up with his theory.  Do you agree?

We are not discussing Bob Larson or his claims. You said the concept of backmasking has been disproven, I am simply asking for some evidence or some research that supports that the messages that are found on thousands of albums aren't really there.

The explanation is simply that we hear what we want to hear.  "Stairway to Heaven" is a good example--There are probably 20 versions of what the message is supposed to be.

My point is that what you're saying is impossible without supernatural influence.  It's absolutely silly to suggest that something can be intentionally done to make sense forward and backard. 

Again, google and separate the wheat from the chaff.  I don't have time now and likely won't for a while. Just use common sense.

Sorry if I'm being grouchy on this.  I've been sounding grouchy on the board particularly the last couple of days, I think.

Quote from: marc on Wed Jan 16, 2008 - 16:49:09My point is that what you're saying is impossible without supernatural influence.

When did I ever say this?

I didn't say that you said it was impossible; I said that it is impossible.

You're simply interpreting auditory ink blots.

Here's what wiki has to say about backmasking...

"A bunch of little kids wanna swear just like me: and run around screamin, "I don't care, just bite me" (nah nah): I think I was put here to annoy the world: and destroy your little 4-year-old boy or girl..."

~Marshall Mathers (Eminem) reveals his ambition in life in his self titled song 'Marshall Mathers'.

"Heard a lot of talk about this Jesus: A man of love, and a man of strength: But what a man was two thousand years ago: means nothing at all to me today"

~Live denies Christ in their song 'Operation Spirit (The Tyranny Of Tradition)'

What this says to me is simply there are alot of hurt people out there that need our prayers, not our condemnation. God can handle the rest.

Quote from: memmy on Fri Jan 18, 2008 - 12:39:02
What this says to me is simply there are alot of hurt people out there that need our prayers, not our condemnation. God can handle the rest.

That maybe true, but I wouldn't be buying any of these albums for your kids in the meantime.

I don't buy albums for memmy's kids, either.


btw, Live's Buddhist.

Quote from: marc on Fri Jan 18, 2008 - 14:38:16btw, Live's Buddhist.

As if this is somehow a defense for blasphemy...

Sorry.  I forgot and inserted some context into the discussion.  I long ago learned that this wasn't welcome; carry on....

It's to stop people from carrying on that these two guys are carrying on this thread.

Quote from: James Rondon on Thu Jan 17, 2008 - 00:19:46
Here's what wiki has to say about backmasking...

Be sure to read the whole article. From the "Skepticism" section near the end:

QuoteSkeptic Michael Shermer claims that the emergence of the Paul is dead phenomenon, including the alleged message at the end of "I'm So Tired", was caused by faulty perception of a pattern. Shermer argues that the human brain evolved with a strong pattern recognition ability that was necessary to process the large amount of noise in man's environment, but that today this ability leads to false positives.[93] Stanford University psychology professor Brian Wandell postulates that the observance of backward messages is a mistake arising from this pattern recognition facility, and argues that subliminal persuasion theories are "bizarre" and "implausible."[37] Rumors of backmasking in popular music have been described as auditory pareidolia.[94] James Walker, president of Christian research group Watchman Fellowship, states that "You could take a Christian hymn, and if you played it backwards long enough at different speeds, you could make that hymn say anything you want to"; Led Zeppelin publicist BP Fallon concurs, saying that "Play anything backwards, and you'll find something." Eric Borgos of audio reversal website talkbackwards.com[95] states that "Mathematically, if you listen long enough, eventually you'll find a pattern",[23] while Jeff Milner of popular backmasking site jeffmilner.com[80] recounts, "Most people, when I show them the site, say that they're not able to hear anything, until, of course, I show them the reverse lyrics."[96]

Audio engineer Evan Olcott claims that messages by artists including Queen and Led Zeppelin are coincidental phonetic reversals, in which the spoken or sung phonemes form new combinations of words when listened to backwards.[11] Olcott states that "Actually engineering or planning a phonetic reversal is next to impossible, and even more difficult when trying to design it with words that fit into a song."[24]

In 1985, psychologists John Vokey and J. Don Read conducted a study using Psalm 23 from the Bible, Queen's "Another One Bites the Dust", and other sound passages made up for the experiment. Vokey and Read concluded that if backmasking does exist, it is ineffective. Participants had trouble noticing backmasked phrases when the samples were played forwards, were unable to judge the types of messages (Christian, Satanic, or commercial), and were not led to behave in a certain way as a result of being exposed to the backmasked phrases. Vokey concluded that "we could find no effect of the meaning of engineered, backward messages on listeners' behaviour, either consciously or unconsciously."[97] Similar results to Vokey and Read's were obtained by D. Averill in 1982.[98] A 1988 experiment by T.E. Moore found "no evidence that listeners were influenced, consciously or unconsciously, by the content of the backward messages."[32] In 1992, an experiment found that exposure to backward messages did not lead to significant changes in attitude.[99] Psychology professor Mark D. Allen says that "delivering subliminal messages via backward masking is totally and ridiculously impossible".[100]

The finding of backward Satanic messages has been explained as caused by the observer-expectancy effect. The Skeptic's Dictionary states that "you probably won't hear [backmasked] messages until somebody first points them out to you. Perception is influenced by expectation and expectation is affected by what others prime you for."[101] In 1984, S. B. Thorne and P. Himelstein found that "when vague and unfamiliar stimuli are presented, [test subjects] are highly likely to accept suggestions, particularly when the suggestions are presented by someone with prestige and authority."[102] Vokey and Read concluded from their 1985 experiment that "the apparent presence of backward messages in popular music is a function more of active construction on the part of the perceiver than of the existence of the messages themselves."[21]

Nevertheless,

if you noticed before the part you emboldened from the Skeptic an audio engineer even admits to messages being these, however coincidental.

Quote"Audio engineer Evan Olcott claims that messages by artists including Queen and Led Zeppelin are coincidental phonetic reversals, in which the spoken or sung phonemes form new combinations of words when listened to backwards."

So regardless if some want to discredit it or make-believe they're not there, the majority are aware of the messages and will admit to their existance.